Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 5 - The stroll out.

[Chief]

Continued in Part 6.

Play Nice - Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 6 - Prosperity Theology, The Coal Man + His Bootlickers

Part 5 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-5-the-stroll-out.1275975/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[kranky al]

Do you honestly think a few nuclear powered subs would be an effective deterrent?

Sink the carriers and then the airforce have a nice bunch of targets……

Which is all surface ships are without carrier protection.

You dont even need to sink the carrier. You just need to put it out of action. Disable the screws and it cant steam, unless it has vtol planes it cant launch, launching vtol planes takes more fuel = less range or armament.


Its all about making it too hard. War is expensive. Comparatively speaking its a lot cheaper to have a military thats just enough to make it too hard to invade than it is to spend billions a day on an actual war.

The brits finished paying world war 2 off in 31 dec 2006.

They amassed 21 billion £ in 1945 currency in debt from ww2

That would be 21 trillion in todays money….

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Why would anyone care about "pissing off" that isolated hovel NZ?

Work in our interests only, bigger countries do not worry about "pissing off" Australia.

So, take the NZ out of ANZAC Day?

AAC Day?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Sink the carriers and then the airforce have a nice bunch of targets……

Which is all surface ships are without carrier protection.

You dont even beed to sink the carrier. You just need to put it out of action.


Its all about making it too hard. War is expensive. Comparatively speaking its a lot cheaper to have a military thats just enough to make it too hard to invade than it is to spend billions a day on an actual war.

The brits finished paying world war 2 off in 31 dec 2006.

They amassed 21 billion £ in 1945 currency in debt from ww2

We are currently amassing a massive undisclosed amount of debt 20 years ahead of delivery.

It will make that 21 billion look like pocket money.

 

[kranky al]

We are currently amassing a massive undisclosed amount of debt 20 years ahead of delivery.

It will make that 21 billion look like pocket money.

That 21 billion would be 21 trillion in todays dollars.

Keep that in mind.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

That 21 billion would be 21 trillion in todays dollars.

Keep that in mind.

In 20 years, the world will be united in fighting climate change.

I suppose we may all need to live on submarines during bushfire season.

 

[kranky al]

In 20 years, the world will be united in fighting climate change.

I suppose we may all need to live on submarines during bushfire season.

Personally i hope we get our shit together a long long time before that.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Personally i hope we get our sh*t together a long long time before that.

Same. But I don't see engaging in an arms race with our biggest trading partner as being a good first step towards this goal.

LNP like to attack ALP with 'what is the cost of achieving net zero by 2050' while at the same time, they are unable to explain the cost of submarines by 2040.

 

[Punt rd end]

Its just another announcement like the last submarine announcement in a long list of announcements

 

[Ghost Patrol]

When the sea levels rise, Supreme Leader Morrison will use his submarine to commute from Canberra to Sydney.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

When the sea levels rise, Supreme Leader Morrison will use his submarine to commute from Canberra to Sydney.

While telling those us who are still alive "look, the advice we received at the time was this would never happen, and on that basis we decided to invest in these wonderful Submarines......oh, Jen and the Girls love them"

 

[Sttew]

“An absence of coherence”.

Sometimes people speaking English as their second language find better words than those that speak it as their first.

yes

 

[Pessimistic]

Australia could become the target of a nuclear strike by China following the security agreement with the US and UK which will lead to it acquiring a nuclear-powered submarine fleet.

Speaking to China’s state-run Global Times newspaper, the unnamed official said nations such as China and Russia would not treat Canberra as “an innocent non-nuclear power” but as “a US ally which could be armed with nuclear weapons [at] any time”, adding that Australian PM Scott Morrison was putting his nation in danger.

Australia could be ‘nuclear war target’ in British pact, warns China

France derides the new deal as a ‘stab in the back’

www.independent.co.uk

despite european australia historically being paranoid the Russians or Chinese were about to invade ‘at any moment’ it took Abbott with his shirtfront comment to get the Russian fleet anywhere near us and now slomo seems hellbent on getting the Chinese over here.

What I don’t get is why would any power invade to ‘get’ our resources (cos there SFA else of interest) when we dig it up and flog it cheap?

unless the long game is the world will have more and more resources shortages and the US UK are flexing to ‘take back the mine and the farm’

so which powers are really flexing their muscles over us. Seems like we will be paying the US and UK to put a Aus Badge on their controlled subs over here.

 

[Pessimistic]

only one of theses matters is contentious public policy, the other recognises basic equity.

our system is so corroded, and yet we have fu**wombles that cheer the fracturing of the post war consensus without an appreciation that this fragile representative democracy is not the natural state of man.

to think that a regressive slide is not possible is eschatological w***erism

the rampant consequence free rorting and waste, like this latest announceable, is a small but inexorable part.

right now…australia is one big mining camp and run like one. At one time only indigenous needed govt permission to dare to go overseas. Now it’s everyone who’s not rich or connected (that stupid Katie Hopkins)

 

[jatz14]

The yank subs are a proven design out for over 20 years.


Most of our defense procurement stuff ups are from reinventing the wheel, trying to customise too much or unproven designs.

See tiger (should have got apache - we finally are)
Collins
Sea sprite

What makes you think we are going to get an existing American design? We are getting technology, I didn't see any details about any specific sub or design.

Things the Scomo government didn't know when announcing this deal.

1. How much screwing the French will cost us.
2. The design of, or details about any sub we are agreeing to.
3. What these subs will cost.
4. How long this will take.
5. Wether any of them are built here.
6. Are we going to be able to maintain the reactors ourselves, or do we have to send them to the US to get it done.

Not to mention we now get 8. 8. ****ing 8. Saw a strategic analysis that said if the subs were going to be used as an asset to keep sea lanes open and free of hostile ships trying to cut us of from our trade partners, we needed 24, not 12 subs. Subs are maintenance heavy, at any time a good portion are out of service. You also cannot send all active subs at once, as that means they all come off station at the same time. So 8 subs lets us send, at a pinch, 3.

It's like people see the word nuclear and think this means these subs are magical. Some sort of super sub. But they have normal torpedoes, like a conventional sub. They rely on stealth, like a conventional sub, they cannot go to sea for more than 3-6 months due to crew fatigue and requirements for maintenance, like a conventional sub.

They are faster (not as much faster as people seem to think), and have greater range. That's it. That's the sum total of the benefit.

And for this, we went from an already insufficient 12, to 8.


Making an announcement of this strategic importance, pissing off both the Europeans and the Chinese, with so little idea of what any of this entails, is breathtaking incompetence.

I suspect this has been done because Scumo thinks it makes him look good. And for no other strategic reason.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So this nuclear submarine technology is 60 years old?

It will be 80 years old when we get our grubby fingers on it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Australia could become the target of a nuclear strike by China following the security agreement with the US and UK which will lead to it acquiring a nuclear-powered submarine fleet.

Speaking to China’s state-run Global Times newspaper, the unnamed official said nations such as China and Russia would not treat Canberra as “an innocent non-nuclear power” but as “a US ally which could be armed with nuclear weapons [at] any time”, adding that Australian PM Scott Morrison was putting his nation in danger.

Australia could be ‘nuclear war target’ in British pact, warns China

France derides the new deal as a ‘stab in the back’

www.independent.co.uk

Wish we could park them at Canberra.

 

[Pessimistic]

So now we know why slomo apparently risked the lives of 40 Australians in his party to travel to ‘covid dangerous’ UK for a summit.

let’s hope him arriving at the wrong venue completely is not a symbol of the incompetence which will now be ‘applied’ to running a nuclear program

 

[Number37]

sQomo explaining why we are going newqueuelear.

 

[kranky al]

What makes you think we are going to get an existing American design? We are getting technology, I didn't see any details about any specific sub or design.

Things the Scomo government didn't know when announcing this deal.

1. How much screwing the French will cost us.
2. The design of, or details about any sub we are agreeing to.
3. What these subs will cost.
4. How long this will take.
5. Wether any of them are built here.
6. Are we going to be able to maintain the reactors ourselves, or do we have to send them to the US to get it done.

Not to mention we now get 8. 8. ******* 8. Saw a strategic analysis that said if the subs were going to be used as an asset to keep sea lanes open and free of hostile ships trying to cut us of from our trade partners, we needed 24, not 12 subs. Subs are maintenance heavy, at any time a good portion are out of service. You also cannot send all active subs at once, as that means they all come off station at the same time. So 8 subs lets us send, at a pinch, 3.

It's like people see the word nuclear and think this means these subs are magical. Some sort of super sub. But they have normal torpedoes, like a conventional sub. They rely on stealth, like a conventional sub, they cannot go to sea for more than 3-6 months due to crew fatigue and requirements for maintenance, like a conventional sub.

They are faster (not as much faster as people seem to think), and have greater range. That's it. That's the sum total of the benefit.

And for this, we went from an already insufficient 12, to 8.


Making an announcement of this strategic importance, pissing off both the Europeans and the Chinese, with so little idea of what any of this entails, is breathtaking incompetence.

I suspect this has been done because Scumo thinks it makes him look good. And for no other strategic reason.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

See theres easy bits to pick out of this post that mar this analysis.


Yes they are faster - lots faster - a nuclear virginia class can do 20 kts without cavitating at depth.

For as long as they have to - to get where they are going.

A diesel electric will do 20kts for a very short time before exhausting the batteries and having to surface and recharge where they are very vulnerable.


Nucs can transit to areas at speed that diesel electrics have to transit slowly.

 

[Cooldude]

So this nuclear submarine technology is 60 years old?

It will be 80 years old when we get our grubby fingers on it.

It's like finally getting a PS5 but it will be delivered 20 years later

By then we're up to PS10

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yes they are faster - lots faster - a nuclear virginia class can do 20 kts without cavitating at depth.

Well we've all learnt a new word today.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

See theres easy bits to pick out of this post that mar this analysis.


Yes they are faster - lots faster - a nuclear virginia class can do 20 kts without cavitating at depth.

For as long as they have to - to get where they are going.

A diesel electric will do 20kts for a very short time before exhausting the batteries and having to surface and recharge where they are very vulnerable.


Nucs can transit to areas at speed that diesel electrics have to transit slowly.

we got these because 2035 was too long to wait for the war with china, yet they will be delivered in 2040

how the **** does 2040 help us with a war well before then?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well we've all learnt a new word today.

faster?

I know the swans midfield is slow, but **** me you dont even know what the word means?!?!?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

See theres easy bits to pick out of this post that mar this analysis.


Yes they are faster - lots faster - a nuclear virginia class can do 20 kts without cavitating at depth.

For as long as they have to - to get where they are going.

A diesel electric will do 20kts for a very short time before exhausting the batteries and having to surface and recharge where they are very vulnerable.


Nucs can transit to areas at speed that diesel electrics have to transit slowly.

What if we made submarine carrier boats that look like cruise ships?

You could trojan horse the submarines straight into the South China sea

 

[QuietB]

What if we made submarine carrier boats that look like cruise ships?

You could trojan horse the submarines straight into the South China sea

With our own version of Supa-Covid for good measure.