Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

[EatMyDusty]

There is now a clear top 5:
1. GAJ
2. Buddy
3. Judd
4. Pendlebury
5. Selwood

We then have the likes of Hodge, Martin, N. Riewoldt, Pavlich and Mitchell in the next tier. Pick your own order for this group.

Yep deluded, putting aside Dusty. Pendlebury above Voss and Selwood and about 20 others is beyond criminal.

 

[Fadge]

2. I said Rance and J Riewoldt CAN BE argued. I really don’t care one way or the other

Yeah, in the same way you could argue that the colour black is actually white...

 

[Fadge]

Yep deluded, putting aside Dusty. Pendlebury above Voss and Selwood and about 20 others is beyond criminal.

The discussion is about players who have debuted since 2000. Get with the program.

 

[Fadge]

I think you need to carefully read my comment again.

I said:

1. 15-20 Brownlow medalists, it is the year 2023. So clearly not all of them

How many Brownlow Medalists this century have debuted since 2000?

 

[RichLeMonde]

Brian Taylor has a higher goal average than Lance Franklin.


Actually you could not be more incorrect. Key position forwards kicked more goals, non key position forwards did not. In 1990 Daicos kicked 97 goals, the next player of similar type kicked 37. Even in 81 when Daicos kicked 76 he was surrounded by key position players on the goal charts. So in an era when Greene can kick 66, Cameron can kick 59, Stengle can kick 53, Steve Johnson can kick 63, Milne 57, Betts 75, why does Martin have such paltry goal tallies?

Genuinely can’t tell if you’re taking the piss. I watched Collingwood in 1990. Collingwood had no key forward until big Sav came along. Daicos was their full forward in 1990.

That's why Daicos averaged 16 and 15 possessions/game in his 2 highest goal-scoring seasons, because he was a permanent deep forward.

Martin has a paltry goal tally because he spends as much time in the midfield as forward, unlike all those other players you mentioned, who are all permanent forwards (other than when Stevie J started to go into the middle a bit, later in his career).

That's why Martin has basically the same career average for disposals as Scott Pendlebury, as well as kicking 0.62 more goals/game. Martin averages 1.13 goals, which is almost 9.4% of the average team score for the last decade (12 goals). SP, whose midfield stats are no more impressive than Martin's, averages 0.51 goals, which is 4% of the average team score for the last decade.

There are only 3 players in history who've averaged > 2.5 goals + goal assists, and > 25 possessions; they are all goal-kicking mids. Those players, in order of how many such seasons they've had, are GAJ, Dusty, Danger.

You really need to put more effort into your posts, because comparing Peter Daicos to Dusty, and trying to compare them on the basis of their goal tallies alone, makes no sense for multiple reasons.

 

[EatMyDusty]

The discussion is about players who have debuted since 2000. Get with the program.

Sorry thought I thread topic was his standing in the game. I really don’t care about your weird parameters.

 

[EatMyDusty]

How many Brownlow Medalists this century have debuted since 2000?

There is a thing called google. It’s the 21st century now buddy.

 

[Fadge]

Sorry thought I thread topic was his standing in the game. I really don’t care about your weird parameters.

Maybe you should read the context of a thread before embarrassing yourself.

 

[Fadge]

There is a thing called google. It’s the 21st century now buddy.

I'm not the one who said there are 15 to 20 Brownlow Medalists since 2000 who are better than Pendlebury, in a thread discussing Pendlebury's standing relative to his peers to have debuted since 2000.

Lachie Neale is a 2 x Brownlow Medalist. As per your logic, he's twice as good as your boy Dusty? Hmmm.

 

[Fadge]

Judd
Bartel
Cooney
GAJ
Swan
Cotchin
Mitchell
Priddis
Fyfe
Dangerfield
Martin
Mitchell
Neale
Wines
Cripps

Brownlow Medalists since 2000 that have debuted since 2000.

Highlighted players have had better careers than Pendlebury.

 

[Godzke]

Wonder if he wants to coach one day
will be hot property when he retires

 

[Fadge]

Wonder if he wants to coach one day
will be hot property when he retires

Matty Lloyd reckons he'll go straight into an Assistant Coaching job, and be Head Coach within 3 to 5 years (and suggested a club might even sign him up as an Assistant with that as a guarantee).

 

[Caligo]

Matty Lloyd reckons he'll go straight into an Assistant Coaching job, and be Head Coach within 3 to 5 years (and suggested a club might even sign him up as an Assistant with that as a guarantee).

If everything went to hell with Sam Mitchell I would be up for that.

I think (hope) Sam is the goods though.

 

[RichLeMonde]

So far, we've compared SP's stats to a few other great players, in terms of: clearances, contested possessions, goals + goals assists, score involvements.

To summarise the results so far:
- SP v Fyfe: Fyfe with clearly better numbers in clearances and contested possession; more goals + goal assists; equal score involvements.
Clear winner: N Fyfe

- SP v Sam Mitchell: Mitchell with clearly better clearance numbers; Mitchell with slightly better score involvements; SP with slightly better goals + goal assists.
Close winner: S Mitchell

- SP v Dustin Martin: Martin with much better score involvements (better 9 seasons vs 3, head-to-head); Martin with much better goals + goals assists; SP fractionally better in clearance and contested possession
Clear winner: D Martin

Next up: Joel Selwood

	Joel Selwood	Scott Pendlebury
Clearances (career avg)	5.2	4.4
Contested possession (career avg)	11.2	10.4
Goals + goal assists (career avg)	1.23	1.26

Score involvements

Year	Selwood	Pendlebury
2012	7.1	7.4
2013	7.6	7.6
2014	7.7	6.5
2015	6.9	6.8
2016	6.9	8.1 (7th)
2017	6.3	7.2
2018	5.8	5.8
2019	4.9	6.3
2020	4.3	4.7
2021	5.9	5.3
2022	6	5.5
2023	NA	5.9
Avg	6.3	6.4

Scoreboard impact is very close, with Pendlebury averaging 0.1 more SIs, and 0.03 more goals + goal assists. Selwood slightly ahead as a contested mid, with 0.8 more clearances and 0.8 more contested possessions.
Result: draw!

 

[Fadge]

If everything went to hell with Sam Mitchell I would be up for that.

I think (hope) Sam is the goods though.

He certainly does. I was a bit dubious with how deep he cut the list last year, but he got more than can be expected from his current playing group and certainly has some talent on the list.

That's why I reckon they're more likely to make the top 8 this year than the likes of Richmond and Geelong.

 

[Caligo]

He certainly does. I was a bit dubious with how deep he cut the list last year, but he got more than can be expected from his current playing group and certainly has some talent on the list.

That's why I reckon they're more likely to make the top 8 this year than the likes of Richmond and Geelong.

We are so reliant on Lewis and Sicily still. I love our young midfield but gosh I think we are a bit fragile everywhere else.

Big hopes, but tempered by a fair bit of fear.

 

[Fadge]

So far, we've compared SP's stats to a few other great players, in terms of: clearances, contested possessions, goals + goals assists, score involvements.

To summarise the results so far:
- SP v Fyfe: Fyfe with clearly better numbers in clearances and contested possession; more goals + goal assists; equal score involvements.
Clear winner: N Fyfe

- SP v Sam Mitchell: Mitchell with clearly better clearance numbers; Mitchell with slightly better score involvements; SP with slightly better goals + goal assists.
Close winner: S Mitchell

- SP v Dustin Martin: Martin with much better score involvements (better 9 seasons vs 3, head-to-head); Martin with much better goals + goals assists; SP fractionally better in clearance and contested possession
Clear winner: D Martin

Next up: Joel Selwood

	Joel Selwood	Scott Pendlebury
Clearances (career avg)	5.2	4.4
Contested possession (career avg)	11.2	10.4
Goals + goal assists (career avg)	1.23	1.26

Score involvements

Year	Selwood	Pendlebury
2012	7.1	7.4
2013	7.6	7.6
2014	7.7	6.5
2015	6.9	6.8
2016	6.9	8.1 (7th)
2017	6.3	7.2
2018	5.8	5.8
2019	4.9	6.3
2020	4.3	4.7
2021	5.9	5.3
2022	6	5.5
2023	NA	5.9
Avg	6.3	6.4

Scoreboard impact is very close, with Pendlebury averaging 0.1 more SIs, and 0.03 more goals + goal assists. Selwood slightly ahead as a contested mid, with 0.8 more clearances and 0.8 more contested possessions.
Result: draw!

I question the level of enjoyment one can get by watching a game of footy from a stats sheet.

You use a small subset of specific statistics to draw conclusions, yet fail to consider more important criteria such as longevity or leadership.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Dustin Martin was a midfielder/forward during the season though. It's the position Dustin Martin invented for himself.

Dustin Martin in 2019 doesn't make the AA team because he was a midfielder/forward, even though his season was statiscally better than P. Cripps's, but Cripps is a midfielder.

Peter Daicos played as either a midfielder during the season, or as a forward during the season. In '89, was Peter a midfielder or a forward? In '90, was he a forward or a midfielder?

You can tell you've only been following Collingwood since 2010.

Surely you can do better than that. In fact I am a 50 plus year member which at Collingwood is a member for life. I doubt this is a thing at Richmond due to the fickleness of their supporter base. They probably reward 5 plus year members for long standing commitment. I suggest watch 1990 again. I was at every game and I am sure you will be able to go through and tell me which games Daicos played HBF, which games he played midfield and which games forward.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Next up: Patrick Dangerfield

	Patrick Dangerfield	Scott Pendlebury
Clearances (career avg)	5.48	4.4
Contested possession (career avg)	13.22	10.4
Goals + goal assists (career avg)	1.74	1.26

Score involvements

Year	Dangerfield	Pendlebury
2012	6.8	7.4
2013	7.0	7.6
2014	6.6	6.5
2015	7.1	6.8
2016	8.5	8.1 (7th)
2017	8.0	7.2
2018	7.9	5.8
2019	7.3	6.3
2020	6.0	4.7
2021	5.1	5.3
2022	6.5	5.5
2023	5.9	5.9
Avg	6.9	6.4

Dangerfield averging 1 clearance and almost 3 CPs more than SP, 0.5 more goals + goal assists, and 0.5 more score involvements.
Clear winner: Patrick Dangerfield

Quote Reply

 

[EatMyDusty]

I'm not the one who said there are 15 to 20 Brownlow Medalists since 2000 who are better than Pendlebury, in a thread discussing Pendlebury's standing relative to his peers to have debuted since 2000.

Lachie Neale is a 2 x Brownlow Medalist. As per your logic, he's twice as good as your boy Dusty? Hmmm.

If you took out Dustys finals records maybe. But I live in the real world unlike yourself who somehow ranks Pendles 4th.

Fact is Pendles is a 2nd tier mid who’s played many consistent seasons without ever reaching the peak of Woewodin or Priddis. If that’s the type of player you rate so highly I feel bad for you.

 

[EatMyDusty]

Judd
Bartel
Cooney
GAJ
Swan
Cotchin
Mitchell
Priddis
Fyfe
Dangerfield
Martin
Mitchell
Neale
Wines
Cripps

Brownlow Medalists since 2000 that have debuted since 2000.

Highlighted players have had better careers than Pendlebury.

I’d easily take them all at their peak over Pendles and obviously the umps do as well.

 

[Fadge]

I’d easily take them all at their peak over Pendles and obviously the umps do as well.

And that says all we need to know about your judgement (specifically lack thereof).

 

[RichLeMonde]

Next up: Lachie Neale

	Lachie Neale	Scott Pendlebury
Clearances (career avg)	6.25	4.4
Contested possession (career avg)	13.08	10.4
Goals + goal assists (career avg)	0.94	1.26

Score involvements

Year	Neale	Pendlebury
2012		7.4
2013		7.6
2014	5.1	6.5
2015	5.2	6.8
2016	5.3	8.1 (7th)
2017	5.8	7.2
2018	5.5	5.8
2019	5.9	6.3
2020	5.8	4.7
2021	6.1	5.3
2022	6.5	5.5
2023	5.8	5.9
Avg	5.7	6.4

Neale a much better inside contested mid, averaging almost 2 clearances more a game, but SP much more impactful on the scoreboard, averaging 0.32 more goals + goal assists, and 0.7 more score involvements.

Close winner: Scott Pendlebury

Quote Reply

 

[EatMyDusty]

And that says all we need to know about your judgement (specifically lack thereof).

Ironic coming from you but I don’t blame you since pies have had anything going for them since Coventry. Of course you rate Pendles 4th

 

[Fadge]

Ironic coming from you but I don’t blame you since pies have had anything going for them since Coventry. Of course you rate Pendles 4th

Whatever you say, Mr. Priddis > Pendlebury.