Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

[Warhorse]

pendlebury is the simon black of this era.

a player who never quite made it to being the best mid in the game but had longevity and for some reason people confuse it with ability.

ablett, fyfe, judd, danger, martin all had periods where they were considered the games clear best mid. Pendlebury never got there.

Black won a brownlow. Something Pendlebury never achieved. But thereabouts with Black and clearly behind the other names listed.

 

[Mr Meow]

'Fyfe's stats blow SP's out of the water', based on the selective subset of data you choose to use when performing these comparisons...

Pendlebury is clearly more and outside player than the likes of Fyfe and Dangerfield, so clearly he will have inferior numbers for clearances and contested possessions. Pendlebury, like Daicos, are elite decision makers and ball users, so naturally you want then playing the role that is most beneficial to the team.

Pendlebury also has spent much less time forward of centre than the likes of Dangerfield and Martin, hence one would reasonably expect lower SI's for Pendlebury.

But hey, it's your flawed story. Unfortunately we can see straight through you...

Dangerfield rotated forward maybe once or twice all season, I would put him somewhere between Pendlebury and Martin for heat map but probably a little closer to Pendles - he remained more at the source (hence his clearance and tackle numbers) rather than having the Martin license to go anywhere.

Agree about the rest.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Oh look, referring to coaches votes again?

Maybe my assumption that you watched last week's Grand Final wasn't correct after all?

Not surprising in the least.

What is your point?

Pendlebury was rated =5th best and awarded 2 coaches votes of a possible 10 in the Grand Final. So he averages 0.66 coaches votes per final this season. You are trying to equate that with seasons where Dustin Martin averaged 7 to 8 of a possible 10 coaches votes per final. There is just no comparison.

 

[Fadge]

Dangerfield rotated forward maybe once or twice all season, I would put him somewhere between Pendlebury and Martin for heat map but probably a little closer to Pendles - he remained more at the source (hence his clearance and tackle numbers) rather than having the Martin license to go anywhere.

Agree about the rest.

My reference was to their careers stats.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Pendlebury is clearly more and outside player than the likes of Fyfe and Dangerfield, so clearly he will have inferior numbers for clearances and contested possessions. Pendlebury, like Daicos, are elite decision makers and ball users, so naturally you want then playing the role that is most beneficial to the team.

Pendlebury also has spent much less time forward of centre than the likes of Dangerfield and Martin, hence one would reasonably expect lower SI's for Pendlebury.

But hey, it's your flawed story. Unfortunately we can see straight through you...

Yes, but the point is that SP not only has lower clearance and contest numbers, he also has lower numbers in goals + goal assists and score involvements than Fyfe and Danger. So Danger and Fyfe not only start on the inside and win their own ball, they also create more scoreboard impact than SP.

Your point only stands when comparing SP to a guy like Neale, JPK, and Cripps, who have better inside numbers but worse numbers in score involvements and goals + goal assists.

So if Pendlebury spends more time in the back half, what stats measure his actual impact on games? Do you think oppo coaches would be that worried about SP's possessions in the back half?

 

[Mr Meow]

Hang on, I'm not talking about season 2023.

I'm asking about which stats, in general, are the best to measure the impact of a SP (or different facets of midfield play in general)

An amalgamation of all the ones on Wheelo for starters. He doesn't have to be top 3 for any one metric. The more well rounded midfielders it would be common to be elite at a stack of them but maybe not top of the tree for any one.

Total coaches votes, Brownlow votes and podium finishes in B&F probably after that. Strong performer in his side's two premiership seasons/finals series - one early career, one late career. If Pendlebury has a bad injury at 32 and retires, I'm confident Collingwood don't get another flag by 2023. Same for Selwood at Geelong. They were the constant to link together two premiership generations and top 7 for Brownlow votes for both puts them in an elite class - even if no one off season was as good as Dangerfield, Martin or Fyfe's best among some modern examples.

 

[PieLebo87]

I do think SP is one of the best of the modern era

Good enough for me.

 

[South of the Yarra]

We have seen the cherry picked statistics of Pendlebury vs Martin. Lets have a look at the statistics where Pendles leads Martin. . Martins stats will also continue to decline as he ages. This is by averages obviously.

Disposals
Pendlebury 25.81
Martin 24.55

Tackles
Pendlebury 4.75
Martin 2.83
Wow didn't realise Martins tackle count was so poor

Rebound from 50
Pendlebury 1.60
Martin 1.19

Clearances
Pendlebury 4.40
Martin 3.91

Contested Possession
Pendlebury 10.44
Martin 9.98

Clangers
Martin 3.91
Pendlebury 2.38
Insane considering Pendlebury has more contested possession, clearances and more disposals.

1 percenters
Pendlebury 1.76
Martin 1.15

Goal assists
Pendlebury 0.75
Martin 0.74
Shock, shock, shock Pendles averages more goal assists.

Handballs
Pendlebury 12.92
Martin 9.20

Hitouts
Pendlebury 0.17
Martin 0.06

Uncontested Possession
Pendlebury 15.27
Martin 14.46


Martin looking like he is not fit to walk in Pendles shadow.

 

[Fadge]

What is your point?

Pendlebury was rated =5th best and awarded 2 coaches votes of a possible 10 in the Grand Final. So he averages 0.66 coaches votes per final this season. You are trying to equate that with seasons where Dustin Martin averaged 7 to 8 of a possible 10 coaches votes per final. There is just no comparison.

No, I'm not.

My question was the comparison between Martin 2023 and Pendlebury 2023.

 

[Fadge]

So if Pendlebury spends more time in the back half, what stats measure his actual impact on games? Do you think oppo coaches would be that worried about SP's possessions in the back half?

Given Collingwood won a premiership this your based on a game plan that focussed on setting up scores from the back half, maybe they should.

But let's talk probability for a minute....

Is a player more likely to be involved in more scores if they play predominantly mid/forward or mid/back?

And if midfielders play more defensively than attacking, are they therefore lesser players?

Finally, are defenders simply non-existent when you consider the better players in an era? Because their score involvement numbers are extremely low.

 

[Mr Meow]

No, I'm not.

My question was the comparison between Martin 2023 and Pendlebury 2023.

He's around 100 coaches votes behind Pendlebury too. He'll probably need 2-3 seasons at his 2023 level after Pendlebury retires to have a chance at catching him.

 

[AppleMagnets]

Players I’ve seen (so only comment on that)

Peaked Higher:
Franklin
Judd
Ablett
Bucks
Martin
Swan
Fyfe
Danger

Total Career Value:
Franklin
Ablett
Danger
Martin

Hodge, Selwood also deserve a mention

I’m not a fan of picking one game data, one season data if being based on pure objectivity. GAJ to me has certainly underperformed in finals yet no one blinks an eye on his standing.

I personally really only pick Bucks/Judd/Dangerfield ahead on a general mid positional standpoint which is about as high of a praise on Pendles. And even with Danger depending on team composition I’d take Pendles ahead (Ironically they would all pair up perfectly lol).

Amazing player, amazing to watch, his last quarter was turning back the clock. His poise and awareness to me is certainly goat level if you want to use that phrase.

Just quickly I’ve seen one game against Richmond when I kid you not there was 4 players around him (all opponents) and quite literally all 4 of them starting to drift away from him and he just stood there. Dude creating more open space without moving 2 feet

…. But that wasn’t new but it’s always absurd to see in real time.

 

[RichLeMonde]

And if midfielders play more defensively than attacking, are they therefore lesser players?

Yes.

GAJ, Judd, Williams, Voss, Buckley etc are midfield GOATs because of their attacking play, not their defensive play.

It’s great to be a 2-way player, but not at the expense of scoreboard impact.

Finally, are defenders simply non-existent when you consider the better players in an era? Because their score involvement numbers are extremely low.
No, defenders contribute in other quantifiable ways - no of intercept marks, no of contested marks, percentage of one on one contests won, metres gained (combined with disposal efficiency).

If a mid is getting more ball in the back half than the front half, you’d want it to be associated with either a) contested possession/clearance, b) intercept marking, c) high metres gained combined with high disposal efficiency, or d) score involvement.

If they’re racking up uncontested possession in the back half and kicking short, or hand balling to safety, then they won’t hurt teams, and they’ll have relatively low numbers in all of the above.

 

[Fadge]

GAJ to me has certainly underperformed in finals yet no one blinks an eye on his standing.

What you talking 'bout Willis?

 

[Maddo11]

you get brent harvey is third right? Brent harvey wasnt even the best mid in his own team.

this stat is just for the players who played the most games and is not indicative of how great they were.

It was a while a go but I think I may have misread it

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No, I'm not.

My question was the comparison between Martin 2023 and Pendlebury 2023.

That ceased to be the case when you referred to things I had written in other threads in a totally different context and tried to infer I was contradicting myself.

 

[Pistol Night]

That ceased to be the case when you referred to things I had written in other threads in a totally different context and tried to infer I was contradicting myself.

You’ve just broken the Bigfooty space and time continuum

 

[Unpredictable]

We have seen the cherry picked statistics of Pendlebury vs Martin. Lets have a look at the statistics where Pendles leads Martin. . Martins stats will also continue to decline as he ages. This is by averages obviously.

Disposals
Pendlebury 25.81
Martin 24.55

Tackles
Pendlebury 4.75
Martin 2.83
Wow didn't realise Martins tackle count was so poor

Rebound from 50
Pendlebury 1.60
Martin 1.19

Clearances
Pendlebury 4.40
Martin 3.91

Contested Possession
Pendlebury 10.44
Martin 9.98

Clangers
Martin 3.91
Pendlebury 2.38
Insane considering Pendlebury has more contested possession, clearances and more disposals.

1 percenters
Pendlebury 1.76
Martin 1.15

Goal assists
Pendlebury 0.75
Martin 0.74
Shock, shock, shock Pendles averages more goal assists.

Handballs
Pendlebury 12.92
Martin 9.20

Hitouts
Pendlebury 0.17
Martin 0.06

Uncontested Possession
Pendlebury 15.27
Martin 14.46


Martin looking like he is not fit to walk in Pendles shadow.

You said that Dustin Martin is a midfielder/forward, but what position does Pendlebury play?

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Gun of a player and person.



Absolute gentlemen.

 

[Pistol Night]

You said that Dustin Martin is a midfielder/forward, but what position does Pendlebury play?

Point guard

 

[St 07]

Could be due to gasping for air but always has great posture imo

 

[Unpredictable]

Point guard

Surely South of Yarra wouldn't expect a point guard to get more offensive boards than a Centre?

 

[Pistol Night]

Surely South of Yarra wouldn't expect a point guard to get more offensive boards than a Centre?

Pendles is the OKC Russell Westbrook of the AFL

 

[Danw0w]

Hitouts
Pendlebury 0.17
Martin 0.06

 

[Danw0w]

I get that Collingwood fans don't like Richmond, but placing Pendlebury ahead of Dusty, Dangerfield AND Fyfe is next level delusion. He's a really good player, but come on......