Unofficial Preview SEASON 2025 - Best 22, Game Plan, Personnel

[Punts]

That's a hope more than an answer imo.

Mills is building a fair reputation for being an absolute panic merchant in finals. He was also there in 2022, when Dangerfield and Selwood made him look like an U16s player.

Then there is the issue of him being injured constantly for two seasons.

I think he can help, but the club is kidding itself if they think Mills is going to resolve our key issue in the centre. We'll be back here in 12 months talking about the same stuff if he is the only thing that changes in the midfield.

Agree

Mills isn’t the answer, goes to water like the rest

 

[The King!]

Why? we gotta have something to show Heeney/Mills/Lloyd/Rampe/Cunningham/Grundy are all coming to the latter stages.

I still cant believe we didnt get a flag out of our peak 2014 side good god that was criminal

Force some change

Prefer we didn't though. Draft will be interesting

 

[tombomb]

I can't see our best 22 changing too much for R1. Mills in for Parker is the obvious one with Fox, Adams, Campbell, Sheldrick and Cleary fighting it out for the last spot.

As the season progresses, I'm sure there will be a few form slumps, injuries and then hopefully guys who make the jump up to AFL level, just like Roberts did. I'm hoping Sheldrick, Cleary, Snell, Edwards and Buller, at very least, force their way in for a good number of games. If any of our new additions can impact, that would be a massive bonus.

Re game plan, we need to lift in and around the contest I'd love to see us be able to match it with the top teams for the full 4 quarters with an even contribution from our onballers. When we play the lower ranked teams, we need to really flex and bully them. At the moment, all sides know that they can over power us for extended periods as our midfield is soft. We got out of gaol last year on many occasions through short bursts of brilliance. We still need this of course but I feel the only way we can win a flag us to be harder over four quarters.

Overall, I'm hopeful for a good season next year but I'd be lying if I said I'm not feeling a large degree of trepidation about how we bounce back from that cluster f*** of a GF.

There probably won't be any significant changes to our 22 come the beginning of the next year, but there needs to be.

If we start next year without significant changes to the midfield, then it's over.

Whether that is Sheldrick, Roberts, Mills, Blakey, Cleary, a draftee ... a combination of some of them ... it really doesn't matter.

But if we go in with the same crew, then we are all just killing time until the inevitable happens. Every other part of the ground is irrelevant imo unless we get the centre right.

 

[caesar88]

I don't at all subscribe to the idea that the midfield is a personnel issue.

 

[Jack2Jack]

3 years ago I would have never thought a Horse coached side would want for defence, but here we are....I remember the incredible defensive desperation in 22 QF, but the standards have slipped a long way since then. (Has to be said the balance of the QF side was much better too - not as flanker heavy).

These last 2 seasons we very much pick and choose when we can be bothered defending, and if it's not on our terms there's no desperation to hang in there, we just capitulate worse than a bottom 4 side. First half of the year it was fine when there was the hunger to be a top side, got there mid-season and just allowed our standards to revert back to picking and choosing.

You would hope a large focus on pre-season is about running 2 ways, and demanding that all these flankers actually do it....for those that keep picking and choosing there needs to be consequence, can't just keep picking the most talented 23 if they won't work the other way. This year the players that got dropped were the guys who were doing the 2 way stuff.
Like most coaches he won't drop a top 5er but no-one below that should be safe from a statement selection if required. Mal got dropped in mid 12 with this expectation, Morton was made to spend most the season in the ressies learning to chase, while watching guys like Dennis-Lane get games ahead of him. Look how that turned out, 2 of best on the big day. Current group not tough enough.

 

[Tedeski]

Unpopular opinion but in some ways we would be better off falling down the ladder

Nothing good will come from that last game. In fact, I think it will be confidence shattering for the group.

 

[Membling]

All I care about is game plan.

Maybe breaking even at clearance.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I don't at all subscribe to the idea that the midfield is a personnel issue.

Purely a personnel issue? Use of personnel?

 

[Kiama Chris]

Nothing good will come from that last game. In fact, I think it will be confidence shattering for the group.

First game or two will tell us.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Nothing good will come from that last game. In fact, I think it will be confidence shattering for the group.

I want you to be wrong.

But history & gut feel tells me you’re right.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Force some change

Prefer we didn't though. Draft will be interesting

Draft is honestly irrelevant to our 2025 chances.

Trade period is where we needed to make a splash if we wanted significant change.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I want you to be wrong.

But history & gut feel tells me you’re right.

You only get a chance to reach the top a certain amount of times.

This group has completely fluffed the last 2 chances, the first interview at pre-season training a journo will ask Longmire about the GF.

His response will be yer well the GF was 3 months ago we reviewed it and are looking to move ahead to a new season.

We had a wonderful season people underestimate how bloody hard it is to win games of football etc etc..

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Best 22 will be as is every year we think xxxx player from the ressies is going to step up they rarely do.

Sheldrick commentary reminds me of Will Gould surely it has to be this season ends up getting delisted.

Konstanty was supposed to be a prospect to work in tandem with Papley gets delisted without playing a game

 

[Rhysswans13]

Recent history doesn’t bode well for sides that get thumped in a grand final the following season, but I can’t see us falling too far down the ladder with the talent we have.

Unpopular opinion 1: I thought Grundy was poor in the second half of the season and would like to see us perhaps go with a 2 ruck combo at times during the season to give him some help.

Unpopular opinion 2: I just get the feeling from the outside looking in that Mills isn’t the greatest captain. Perhaps it’s time to review the leadership team or return to a 2-3 captain format as we have in the past. I might be completely wrong with Mills and I’m not saying he’s not a great player or a good person but when I compare him with some of our captains we have had over the last 30 years I question if he’s the best option.

I think like most teams our success will depend on our injury list, our double ups in the fixture (due mid November) and if we have the maturity to get over the thumpings we have received in the last 2 GFs that we played in.

 

[caesar88]

Purely a personnel issue? Use of personnel?

Answering your question earnestly, I think it's everything KC, going all the way back to about 2018.

I think Horse's set-ups and tactics in and around stoppages are horrible. How many awful losses and midfield beltings do we have to sit through while media pundits on their weekly footy programs show freeze-frames of our mids being in the wrong position to stop an opposition clearance or win one themselves?

I think his talent assessment and subsequent development of the midfielders isn't much better.

He was given a generational talent in Isaac Heeney, who has played 200 games and only about 30 of them have been on the ball where he clearly played the best footy of his career.

He was given the second-best clearance player of his draft year in James Rowbottom, who is now a defensive mid on the record saying his focus isn't on winning the ball.

He was given a hard, defensively-strong inside mid as a junior in Chad Warner, who now hangs on the fringes for easy handball receives so he doesn't have to get his hands dirty.

He was given a junior mid rated even higher than Heeney in Callum Mills, who has played 162 games and about 130 of them have been in defence.

This after already being given George Hewett, who would go on to be a top 3 centre clearance player in the comp his first year after leaving us, while Horse only ever saw him as a tagger.

I like Horse but that is just torching through a whole generation of Swans midfielders and somehow finding a way to make every one of them less than what they otherwise could've been for us.

So I like Sheldrick and Cleary. I really do. Cleary especially. I think they are promising players. But I have absolutely no faith that they will be spared from all of the above shite happening to them, too. It's therefore hard to see them, or anyone new for that matter, being the "answer."

That is going to have to come from the one bloke who has had his fingerprints all over our midfield's Seven Year Ditch.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Answering your question earnestly, I think it's everything KC, going all the way back to about 2018.

I think Horse's set-ups and tactics in and around stoppages are horrible. How many awful losses and midfield beltings do we have to sit through while media pundits on their weekly footy programs show freeze-frames of our mids being in the wrong position to stop an opposition clearance or win one themselves?

I think his talent assessment and subsequent development of the midfielders isn't much better.

He was given a generational talent in Isaac Heeney, who has played 200 games and only about 30 of them have been on the ball where he clearly played the best footy of his career.

He was given the second-best clearance player of his draft year in James Rowbottom, who is now a defensive mid on the record saying his focus isn't on winning the ball.

He was given a hard, defensively-strong inside mid as a junior in Chad Warner, who now hangs on the fringes for easy handball receives so he doesn't have to get his hands dirty.

He was given a junior mid rated even higher than Heeney in Callum Mills, who has played 162 games and about 130 of them have been in defence.

This after already being given George Hewett, who would go on to be a top 3 centre clearance player in the comp his first year after leaving us, while Horse only ever saw him as a tagger.

I like Horse but that is just torching through a whole generation of Swans midfielders and somehow finding a way to make every one of them less than what they otherwise could've been for us.

So I like Sheldrick and Cleary. I really do. Cleary especially. I think they are promising players. But I have absolutely no faith that they will be spared from all of the above shite happening to them, too. It's therefore hard to see them, or anyone new for that matter, being the "answer."

That is going to have to come from the one bloke who has had his fingerprints all over our midfield's Seven Year Ditch.

Just seeking clarity.
Can't disagree with your assessment of talent going in vs outcomes. I would only say that circumstances aren't always what they seem from the outside, which is not saying that you're wrong, but that there may be more to it.
Example: Heeney was terrific this year but less effective during our slump (IMO tactics issues for Heeney plus Grundy form loss) then at the worst possible moment his body gave up. My theory: role and overuse. I'd like to see him do less planned heavy lifting and spend a bit more time as a forward to reduce the load on his body a la Dangerfield.
You know my views on midfield coaching, roles and composition and yours are pretty similar. A few others have also posted along these lines.

 

[McGowan3]

Why? we gotta have something to show Heeney/Mills/Lloyd/Rampe/Cunningham/Grundy are all coming to the latter stages.

I still cant believe we didnt get a flag out of our peak 2014 side good god that was criminal

Mitchell, Rioli, Hodge, Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Lewis etc were a class above our midfield and were fired up after we somehow beat them in 2012. Not criminal, just reality. The margin, however, was embarrassing.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

We got out of gaol last year on many occasions through short bursts of brilliance. We still need this of course but I feel the only way we can win a flag us to be harder over four quarters.

That's one of the things that annoyed me about this season. The issues were evident from early in the season, but we were never able to address it.

Our game style was the icing, not the cake. We relied on the icing to get the win, but we never managed to get the cake right so that we had a solid foundation, and could use the icing to put distance between ourselves and our opposition. The cake was often falling in on itself but we had enough icing to cover the cracks, until the GF.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

You only get a chance to reach the top a certain amount of times.

This group has completely fluffed the last 2 chances, the first interview at pre-season training a journo will ask Longmire about the GF.

His response will be yer well the GF was 3 months ago we reviewed it and are looking to move ahead to a new season.

We had a wonderful season people underestimate how bloody hard it is to win games of football etc etc..

Spot on... and the lotto numbers that week thanks?

 

[LeapingLeo21]

Drop one if the tall forwards, find players who can win clearances, pick defenders who can defend first.

That'll help

 

[ShireSwan]

One of the problems is we are hoping that players like Sheldrick and Cleary change our midfield situation - but they have barely played 10 games between them.

It seems totally unrealistic to expect them to get to a big final in 12 months and compete with guys like Neale and Bontempelli ... and many others.

The other issue is that I am not sure the coaches understand the problem we have in the centre.

When you are being totally handled by Tim Taranto in round three and 15 weeks later you are still saying 'we don't understand why we start so slowly', I am not sure it is every going to sink in.

Agree on the coaching issue under Horse. Can't see him learning at this stage, and the club needs to be winning (even if it ultimately falls short) in the fickle Sydney market so they won't risk a change.

Being young players didn't stop Daicos, Warner, Ashcroft, Shezel, Harley Reid....etc etc. Pretty sure Rowbottom could have contributed right away too. He was killing it in the ressies from day dot.

If they have the physical tools to play and the mentality (Sheldrick especially does), there's no intrinsic reason why they can't be strong contributors.

 

[ShireSwan]

Here's a good delisted free agent option for the forward line this year

 

[caesar88]

Just seeking clarity.
Can't disagree with your assessment of talent going in vs outcomes. I would only say that circumstances aren't always what they seem from the outside, which is not saying that you're wrong, but that there may be more to it.
Example: Heeney was terrific this year but less effective during our slump (IMO tactics issues for Heeney plus Grundy form loss) then at the worst possible moment his body gave up. My theory: role and overuse. I'd like to see him do less planned heavy lifting and spend a bit more time as a forward to reduce the load on his body a la Dangerfield.
You know my views on midfield coaching, roles and composition and yours are pretty similar. A few others have also posted along these lines.

I certainly agree re the example you cite. It'd be nice to have that flexibility where if Heeney as our number one mid needed a few week's rest (although he did have a few weeks off on the run home), we could just rest him forward and slot someone else in. The cruel irony is that it's Horse's own doing that there isn't that someone else to slot in, because he hasn't developed a single other midfielder in the team to even play that role as the contested ball-winner and clearance player.

We drafted a few players perfectly suited to those things five or six years ago, but Horse decided he only liked them for one thing each and in neither case it was contested ball or clearances. And now we are paying for it.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I certainly agree re the example you cite. It'd be nice to have that flexibility where if Heeney as our number one mid needed a few week's rest (although he did have a few weeks off on the run home), we could just rest him forward and slot someone else in. The cruel irony is that it's Horse's own doing that there isn't that someone else to slot in, because he hasn't developed a single other midfielder in the team to even play that role as the contested ball-winner and clearance player.

We drafted a few players perfectly suited to those things five or six years ago, but Horse decided he only liked them for one thing each and in neither case it was contested ball or clearances. And now we are paying for it.

I've been one of the biggest critics of Horse for exactly the reason you have listed, and I kept getting the same response oh but Mills played well in defence, yeah so what he was an AA in the midfield pity our coach won't play him there until the twilight of his career. Horse's biggest issue all the way through is he's is so risk adverse and won't give opportunities to young players in their positions. Sheldrick wasting in the VFL for goodness knows reason is just another one of these things.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I certainly agree re the example you cite. It'd be nice to have that flexibility where if Heeney as our number one mid needed a few week's rest (although he did have a few weeks off on the run home), we could just rest him forward and slot someone else in. The cruel irony is that it's Horse's own doing that there isn't that someone else to slot in, because he hasn't developed a single other midfielder in the team to even play that role as the contested ball-winner and clearance player.

We drafted a few players perfectly suited to those things five or six years ago, but Horse decided he only liked them for one thing each and in neither case it was contested ball or clearances. And now we are paying for it.

I don't believe that it's too late though.
We've seen Rowbottom play an altered role competently, only 2 years ago Mills was AA in the middle, Warner may not be great 2 way but he can improve inside, Sheldrick and Cleary are both insiders. Roberts too could go in there.
I believe with the right approach and coaching we can at least break even.
The two big questions are coaching and intensity but I'll hold fire until I see how we line up in the first game.