Unofficial Preview SEASON 2025 - Best 22, Game Plan, Personnel

[caesar88]

You know my thoughts. Fox will be sacrificed, or Wicks, despite both being better in their positions.

If Florent is tried as a forward and proves to be better than Wicks, then I'd be all for it. But if he's picked without merit because he's Florent and we are trying to find a spot for him, then that will only lead to trouble.

 

[Kiama Chris]

If Florent is tried as a forward and proves to be better than Wicks, then I'd be all for it. But if he's picked without merit because he's Florent and we are trying to find a spot for him, then that will only lead to trouble.

Ditto Campbell.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Huge opportunity for Fox to stand up and make a medium defender role his own. Otherwise he falls into a utility category, and I would have Florent ahead of him on that basis (and we can have max speed one utility at a time in my mind).

In the kindest possible way, I hope Jordon is struggling to find a role next year. Yes, he was an effective tagger at stages last season, but he currently does have other really strong standout characteristics - serviceable tackling, speed, kicking, etc but not enough to justify a role on their own. Maybe he can play tough inside mid if given the opportunity? But I think others edge him on class.

Part of my thinking on Jordon is that last season we split up defensive and offensive roles between players. I want each player being tough and accountable so we don’t require defensive mindsets specialists to cover for them. And if we can do that, we can have fewer pure defensive players.

Three talls is without doubt the right approach if there is a five man bench. As others have noted, we just need fewer mid-paced players at their feet.

Campbell to my mind justifies a role in the team as a half forward. He is quick with a very long kick, and he is tenacious.

Need a squad approach next year. The team that will win the GF will have rested players and momentum - and they may again come from outside the top 4 if bye is not changed. Better to be cherry ripe for September than dominate H&A.

 

[Jewelsbon]

So, anyone registering to chat to Tom next Monday?

 

[Bandicoot]

Answering your question earnestly, I think it's everything KC, going all the way back to about 2018.

I think Horse's set-ups and tactics in and around stoppages are horrible. How many awful losses and midfield beltings do we have to sit through while media pundits on their weekly footy programs show freeze-frames of our mids being in the wrong position to stop an opposition clearance or win one themselves?

I think his talent assessment and subsequent development of the midfielders isn't much better.

He was given a generational talent in Isaac Heeney, who has played 200 games and only about 30 of them have been on the ball where he clearly played the best footy of his career.

He was given the second-best clearance player of his draft year in James Rowbottom, who is now a defensive mid on the record saying his focus isn't on winning the ball.

He was given a hard, defensively-strong inside mid as a junior in Chad Warner, who now hangs on the fringes for easy handball receives so he doesn't have to get his hands dirty.

He was given a junior mid rated even higher than Heeney in Callum Mills, who has played 162 games and about 130 of them have been in defence.

This after already being given George Hewett, who would go on to be a top 3 centre clearance player in the comp his first year after leaving us, while Horse only ever saw him as a tagger.

I like Horse but that is just torching through a whole generation of Swans midfielders and somehow finding a way to make every one of them less than what they otherwise could've been for us.

So I like Sheldrick and Cleary. I really do. Cleary especially. I think they are promising players. But I have absolutely no faith that they will be spared from all of the above shite happening to them, too. It's therefore hard to see them, or anyone new for that matter, being the "answer."

That is going to have to come from the one bloke who has had his fingerprints all over our midfield's Seven Year Ditch.

Don't disagree with what you are saying here but surely the midfield coaching group have something to answer for here.
Similarly, I feel the way Grundy now rucks, he is no where near as effective as he was at the start of the year. This is surely due to the coaching he is receiving.

 

[caesar88]

Don't disagree with what you are saying here but surely the midfield coaching group have something to answer for here.
Similarly, I feel the way Grundy now rucks, he is no where near as effective as he was at the start of the year. This is surely due to the coaching he is receiving.

I've attributed blame to the midfield line coach before for our tactics and set-ups at stoppages. But choosing what to do with each player and what their role is going to be and what direction their career is going to go in... that is all on Horse. And that is an area I think we have failed at drastically in regards to midfield talent.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Don't disagree with what you are saying here but surely the midfield coaching group have something to answer for here.
Similarly, I feel the way Grundy now rucks, he is no where near as effective as he was at the start of the year. This is surely due to the coaching he is receiving.

I've heard different theories about the cause(s) of Grundy's drop off in effectiveness. One is that rucks can no longer use a straight arm to push their opponent. Another that his tactics have been worked out. Another that bigger guys crunch him. Another that he no longer has the staying power to go the whole season. Finally that he lost his cool when he started together beaten.
The other part of it is that our midfield setup worked brilliantly early but also got worked out and we were unable to match that level of performance either.
Altogether we dropped off a cliff.
My personal view is that personnel was an issue, individual performance and coaching. All three need attention.

 

[Tomorrow]

So, anyone registering to chat to Tom next Monday?

Dear Tom
Why didn't our players 'leave it all out there' in the defining game of the season? What is changing to address this for 2025 on and off the field?

"“That’s all [the supporters] ever really expect from you, that maximum effort, that fight,” Irvine says. “And they will go through it with you. Everyone wants to see the best level of football and the best kind of football, but there’s an element of realistic expectations. And when they see the players leave it all out there … even when we were winning every week, that was still always the bare minimum that they expected.”
Jackson Irvine St Pauli captain

 

[Callipygian]

You've run into the same problem I did. Jordon?
Rampe doesn't play as tall as he used to, it's probably his last year, and Blakey struggles to be an accountable defender. It's bloody HARD! Lot of good thoughts.

Bloody hell! You're right. Oversight. I'll put Jordon in for Cleary and Cleary will have to wait for an injury.

But in this case, caesar88 's comments come to the fore - Florent absolutely must justify his selection as being the best pressure forward to get picked ahead of Wicks et al. He doesn't necessarily have to apply the best pressure but he has to present the best overall package for a role which has a strong emphasis on applying pressure and shutting down space and options. He has the pace and the strength, and he has the maturity and experience. No excuses.

I agree with caesar88 's framing of the problem: Florent is too good to leave out but he really needs to find a position to make his own. In this regard he's been an even slower burn than McCartin and Blakey. Campbell is in a similar category.

Maybe Fox does make way. We can always recall him for finals! It's so tough!

 

[Kiama Chris]

Bloody hell! You're right. Oversight. I'll put Jordon in for Cleary and Cleary will have to wait for an injury.

But in this case, caesar88 's comments come to the fore - Florent absolutely must justify his selection as being the best pressure forward to get picked ahead of Wicks et al. He doesn't necessarily have to apply the best pressure but he has to present the best overall package for a role which has a strong emphasis on applying pressure and shutting down space and options. He has the pace and the strength, and he has the maturity and experience. No excuses.

I agree with caesar88 's framing of the problem: Florent is too good to leave out but he really needs to find a position to make his own. In this regard he's been an even slower burn than McCartin and Blakey. Campbell is in a similar category.

Maybe Fox does make way. We can always recall him for finals! It's so tough!

One way to look at it is "who do I want beside me in the bar fight?". The list is shorter than I'd like.
Cunningham
McCartin
Fox
Rampe
Roberts
Gulden
Hayward
McLean
Wicks
Papley
Rowbottom
Grundy maybe
Not enough mongrel. You could argue one or two others. You could argue against some of these. The point is that it isn't enough of them.
For me it should be a deciding factor when other things are near equal. One of the reasons I'm a consistent fan of Wicks - never a backward step.

 

[caesar88]

One way to look at it is "who do I want beside me in the bar fight?". The list is shorter than I'd like.
Cunningham
McCartin
Fox
Rampe
Roberts
Gulden
Hayward
McLean
Wicks
Papley
Rowbottom
Grundy maybe
Not enough mongrel. You could argue one or two others. You could argue against some of these. The point is that it isn't enough of them.
For me it should be a deciding factor when other things are near equal. One of the reasons I'm a consistent fan of Wicks - never a backward step.

I think you are being unbelievably generous with most of these names LOL

 

[Kiama Chris]

I think you are being unbelievably generous with most of these names LOL

Going off more than just the GF. If that, the list would be much shorter. Fox, Harry, Rowy.....

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I hate to disappoint you, but I agree with both of your unpopular opinions.

The way I view Mills, is that if you were a neutral and Swans won the grand final, you would be underwhelmed to see Mills as the premiership winning captain. To me, he just lacks a bit of substance. Doesn’t seem sure of himself to me. Hopefully he can prove me wrong.

I would support co-captains next year though…

Mills is probably the worst captain we have ever appointed i will point out 2 things which imo sum up why he is a bad choice.

1) I dont care it was a accident or the intention was not to cause harm a real leader sets the tone and example for the whole playing group to put himself in such a position that effectively wiped out his season was ridiculous.

2) Lack of game awareness this moment always stood out for me when Florent kick after the siren against Port fell short instead of organising the backline or trying to shepherd it through he charged off in embarrasing fashion as the ball fell a meter short.

Still a fine player but nowhere near leader material

 

[kelpie_X]

I hate to disappoint you, but I agree with both of your unpopular opinions.

The way I view Mills, is that if you were a neutral and Swans won the grand final, you would be underwhelmed to see Mills as the premiership winning captain. To me, he just lacks a bit of substance. Doesn’t seem sure of himself to me. Hopefully he can prove me wrong.

I would support co-captains next year though…

Mills isn't a Captain's arseh*le. He proved that on Mad Monday last year.

 

[caesar88]

Mills may not be the perfect captain (yet), but looking at our list I genuinely don't see a better option.

Maybe Sir Dane, but there's a good chance this will be his last year.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Mills may not be the perfect captain (yet), but looking at our list I genuinely don't see a better option.

Maybe Sir Dane, but there's a good chance this will be his last year.

Also unlikely to admit that a mistake was made. Same issue with JPK - great player but not a good captain.
They blew an opportunity by not appointing VC(s) and/or a leadership group. Hopefully that will be rectified.

 

[caesar88]

Also unlikely to admit that a mistake was made. Same issue with JPK - great player but not a good captain.
They blew an opportunity by not appointing VC(s) and/or a leadership group. Hopefully that will be rectified.

As I understand it there were vice-captains and a leadership group this year. It wasn't formally announced because the voting was so vast and widespread that it was counter-productive to publicly acknowledge the leadership of some but not others, just over a few votes difference.

Mills (C), Rampe (VC), Parker (VC), Heeney, Papley, Adams & Gulden received the most votes, and Cunningham, Lloyd, Hayward, Grundy, Blakey & McCartin were the next-best of the rest.

To that end, I wonder if perhaps it wasn't a lack of leadership that was a problem this year, but a lack of clear leadership. The above results would suggest that there's no shortage of players considered worthy of a 'leadership' role at the club, in fact it's the opposite, we have plenty. But we lacked that one clear voice and character that could change the DNA of the team when needed. Maybe there were so many voices providing leadership that complacency crept in; the players felt so comfortable that there was always enough leadership on offer that no one was quite prepared to be THE leader.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Mills is probably the worst captain we have ever appointed i will point out 2 things which imo sum up why he is a bad choice.

1) I dont care it was a accident or the intention was not to cause harm a real leader sets the tone and example for the whole playing group to put himself in such a position that effectively wiped out his season was ridiculous.

2) Lack of game awareness this moment always stood out for me when Florent kick after the siren against Port fell short instead of organising the backline or trying to shepherd it through he charged off in embarrasing fashion as the ball fell a meter short.

Still a fine player but nowhere near leader material

Point 2 was the one that really did it for me. He stopped early. Players need to be terrified of taking shortcuts because their leaders will call them out mercilessly for it (see example of Kirk giving Hannebery a right whack for passing on the inside in the 3km time trial). Mills lost moral standing to hold his teammates to account in that moment.

On point 1, I sometimes wonder (hope?) that Konstanty instigated it all and Mills was being a true captain and covering for his young player publicly. But if Mills had any role in his own injury, then he should have had the captaincy removed immediately until he could earn back his stripes. It was madness having the captain rushing back to lead the team that got to the GF without him.

Rampe talking about have a good cry with Mills for missing out on the GF was then icing on the cake. Rampe should have been focused on winning the thing, not worried about the feelings of someone not taking part because of their own stupidity and lack of leadership.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Mills demeanour in the lead up to the GF was odd. He had an air of confidence about him that he was always going to take his place in the team. Going out and telling the media he was right and trained well etc. Didn't appear phased when questioned by BT whether he was good to go. Was very nonchalant in responding.

I'm reading between the lines here, so feel free to shoot me down if you want. But his behaviour in the lead up I'd describe as entitled. As if he didn't have to earn it and would walk straight back into the team. All until Horse told him he was out and he cried about it.

And the fact that he walked straight back into the team mid season, and stunk it up. after putting himself out of action through his own carelessness.

Careless, entitled and selfish is how I'd characterise him after the injury and how he carried himself this season.

 

[Adnico26Parker]

Also unlikely to admit that a mistake was made. Same issue with JPK - great player but not a good captain.
They blew an opportunity by not appointing VC(s) and/or a leadership group. Hopefully that will be rectified.

All things to possible raise with Harley on the Zoom call perhaps?

 

[Kiama Chris]

All things to possible raise with Harley on the Zoom call perhaps?

See the first sentence.

 

[caesar88]

Mills demeanour in the lead up to the GF was odd. He had an air of confidence about him that he was always going to take his place in the team. Going out and telling the media he was right and trained well etc. Didn't appear phased when questioned by BT whether he was good to go. Was very nonchalant in responding.

I'm reading between the lines here, so feel free to shoot me down if you want. But his behaviour in the lead up I'd describe as entitled. As if he didn't have to earn it and would walk straight back into the team. All until Horse told him he was out and he cried about it.

And the fact that he walked straight back into the team mid season, and stunk it up. after putting himself out of action through his own carelessness.

Careless, entitled and selfish is how I'd characterise him after the injury and how he carried himself this season.

I don't necessarily agree with your final characterisations of Mills, but the bolded was very well said and I think succinctly nails the overall, shall we say, uneasiness, that some fans had about Mills.

I think Mills' promotion as captain has to mean something. Clearly his example and leadership resonates strongly with the playing group, but when you look at the personality types that make up a large chunk of that playing group... maybe that is the problem.

Have they voted for someone who will challenge and oppose them when needed, or have they voted for someone they like because he's most like them?