Unofficial Preview SEASON 2025 - Best 22, Game Plan, Personnel

[Bloods86]

As much as I agree (I'm a huge Fox fan and own his jersey) I can't see it happening, at least formally. He doesn't push himself forward.

To me that's a selling point. I'd rather someone who turns up for big games than someone who has an ego and is vocal, then doesn't walk the talk when it really matters.

Fox wasn't great on grand final day, but he was in our top few performers, after being one of the top few in '22.

Mills will stay as captain, but should be Rowy, Heeney, Fox and Cunners after that. Doubt Cunners will be in there again, likely to have Gulden and Paps. Rampe probably should step aside.

 

[wolftone57]

We need to start focusing on winning the centre clearances more, or at the very least stopping the super clean centre clearances from the opposition. It doesn't matter too much in the regular season but it kills us in Grand Finals against teams who are actually really good in the centre.

I mean I don't think Longmire will do this as he doesn't care about the centre clearances, he never has, but I think it is what we should do.

I agree. Yes Longmire has always coached the rebound game

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[S120]

They've all three been excellent servants for the club, but I've got my eyes on who is going to be coming for the positions of Cunningham, Rampe, and Lloyd this year. I don't think we're coming close to winning a flag in 2025 after getting bundled out like we did in the GF. I do think we're making finals but I see 2025 as a consolidation year unfortunately and one of the consolidation efforts is getting some young guys to be putting maximum pressure on these three old blokes.

Cunningham I see as being the hardest to unseat because there's nobody else on the list who comes close to doing what he does at the level he does it at. But there's also got to be a limit we have for defenders who offer essentially no rebound or intercepting? Cunningham probably holds his spot but I'm hoping a young guy (Kirk?) is being groomed to be a properly competitive small defender.

Rampe should be coming under big scrutiny from Patrick Snell.

And Lloyd is one of many flankers/wingmen who I think we are starting to see physically he mightn't be what we need when the pressure is at its highest.

By the end of 2025, I'm hoping Snell, Warner, Sheldrick and the like are in the seniors side or at least putting huge heat on these three for their spots.

 

[Punts]

Rampe one year to many unfortunately

He is cooked

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Rampe one year to many unfortunately

He is cooked

Sadly, I think you are correct. I was shocked at how easily he was pushed off by Ah Chee and Lohman. If he has lost his trademark ability to win one on ones then I can't see how he can remain competitive.

I hope he proves me entirely wrong and happy for anyone to give me stick about it when he turns back the clock in 2025.

 

[caesar88]

They've all three been excellent servants for the club, but I've got my eyes on who is going to be coming for the positions of Cunningham, Rampe, and Lloyd this year. I don't think we're coming close to winning a flag in 2025 after getting bundled out like we did in the GF. I do think we're making finals but I see 2025 as a consolidation year unfortunately and one of the consolidation efforts is getting some young guys to be putting maximum pressure on these three old blokes.

Cunningham I see as being the hardest to unseat because there's nobody else on the list who comes close to doing what he does at the level he does it at. But there's also got to be a limit we have for defenders who offer essentially no rebound or intercepting? Cunningham probably holds his spot but I'm hoping a young guy (Kirk?) is being groomed to be a properly competitive small defender.

Rampe should be coming under big scrutiny from Patrick Snell.

And Lloyd is one of many flankers/wingmen who I think we are starting to see physically he mightn't be what we need when the pressure is at its highest.

By the end of 2025, I'm hoping Snell, Warner, Sheldrick and the like are in the seniors side or at least putting huge heat on these three for their spots.

I don't disagree with any of this, but I will just say that as much as Lloyd was disappointing in the GF, he was still our best wingman in the other two finals.

An outside runner doesn't really need to be much of a physical presence, but that's maybe why we shouldn't have a billion of them in the one team.

 

[Nuggetz]

I know we had Sydney Sweeney rock up but if the Swans get Dua Lipa to attend a game then we're winning the GF. Her or Henry Cavill, if both then it's a dynasty.

 

[Kiama Chris]

They've all three been excellent servants for the club, but I've got my eyes on who is going to be coming for the positions of Cunningham, Rampe, and Lloyd this year. I don't think we're coming close to winning a flag in 2025 after getting bundled out like we did in the GF. I do think we're making finals but I see 2025 as a consolidation year unfortunately and one of the consolidation efforts is getting some young guys to be putting maximum pressure on these three old blokes.

Cunningham I see as being the hardest to unseat because there's nobody else on the list who comes close to doing what he does at the level he does it at. But there's also got to be a limit we have for defenders who offer essentially no rebound or intercepting? Cunningham probably holds his spot but I'm hoping a young guy (Kirk?) is being groomed to be a properly competitive small defender.

Rampe should be coming under big scrutiny from Patrick Snell.

And Lloyd is one of many flankers/wingmen who I think we are starting to see physically he mightn't be what we need when the pressure is at its highest.

By the end of 2025, I'm hoping Snell, Warner, Sheldrick and the like are in the seniors side or at least putting huge heat on these three for their spots.

Unlike some/many I think Rampe has one more year in him, though he might need to be managed a bit. Snell certainly looks the heir apparent but if Mitchell progresses as a defender he could be a smokey for the medium role.
The problem with grooming someone to replace Cunningham is that that role doesn't really exist in ressies. Probably have to run him as a tagger, even in the midfield, to see what he can do. Maybe see who else trains with the defenders in the preseason.
We'd have to pry Lloyd out of Horse's team with a crowbar.

 

[caesar88]

I agree that Sir Dane, Cunningham & Lloyd ideally are not "locks" by next year, and we need to start getting really good looks at their replacements (Lloyd arguably doesn't need a replacement - we already have a surplus of wingmen.)

But I don't agree with the characterisation that they're ready to have a fork stuck in them.

I would have all three of them in our top five performers over the course of this year's finals series. I don't expect that level of performance to be sustainable obviously going forward, but it doesn't mean they don't still have good footy left in them.

 

[Jeffers]

Rampe one year to many unfortunately

He is cooked

I’m worried if his calf can last one more journey.

 

[wolftone57]

Keep Heeney in the mids but play him 1/4 forward for rests. Get rid of Rowbottom's role FFS. Give Warner the ultimatum - harden up or no more midfield time. Add Sheldrick into the mix as a support act who provides grunt, NOT flash. Add Mills into the mix for strength and tagging jobs when mids are off the chain.

There's your five, lock them in and make them focus on WINNING THE BALL!

You don't want Rowbottom in the mids? He is the only mid that stood up in the GF

 

[wolftone57]

I’m worried if his calf can last one more journey.

I actually slightly agree with Punts. Rampe at times looked slow & really out of sorts. We need to find a defender who can run the backs ASAP

 

[wolftone57]

There probably won't be any significant changes to our 22 come the beginning of the next year, but there needs to be.

If we start next year without significant changes to the midfield, then it's over.

Whether that is Sheldrick, Roberts, Mills, Blakey, Cleary, a draftee ... a combination of some of them ... it really doesn't matter.

But if we go in with the same crew, then we are all just killing time until the inevitable happens. Every other part of the ground is irrelevant imo unless we get the centre right.

I agree. I have advocated for Blakey to go there. People seem to think just because he goes to the mids he needs to bet an inside beast. But that isn't his value. His value is taking the Grundy tap to advantage & making it into a super attack. He can run off just like The Bont and kick a huge pass to a leading forward.

Sheldrick is the in & under beast & I think Horse was a ****wit not to use him in the finals. Fox was not playing great footy due to being moved all over the place. What's more, he is soft. So are most of our players.

 

[wolftone57]

3 years ago I would have never thought a Horse coached side would want for defence, but here we are....I remember the incredible defensive desperation in 22 QF, but the standards have slipped a long way since then. (Has to be said the balance of the QF side was much better too - not as flanker heavy).

These last 2 seasons we very much pick and choose when we can be bothered defending, and if it's not on our terms there's no desperation to hang in there, we just capitulate worse than a bottom 4 side. First half of the year it was fine when there was the hunger to be a top side, got there mid-season and just allowed our standards to revert back to picking and choosing.

You would hope a large focus on pre-season is about running 2 ways, and demanding that all these flankers actually do it....for those that keep picking and choosing there needs to be consequence, can't just keep picking the most talented 23 if they won't work the other way. This year the players that got dropped were the guys who were doing the 2 way stuff.
Like most coaches he won't drop a top 5er but no-one below that should be safe from a statement selection if required. Mal got dropped in mid 12 with this expectation, Morton was made to spend most the season in the ressies learning to chase, while watching guys like Dennis-Lane get games ahead of him. Look how that turned out, 2 of best on the big day. Current group not tough enough.

I agree. Our players are as soft as Play Dough. I do not like this playing a zone. We give up possession 90% of the time under this stupid zone. Yes, it can cause a turnover, but not against great sides. They just cut you apart because you can't play, one on one.

 

[wolftone57]

Best 22 will be as is every year we think xxxx player from the ressies is going to step up they rarely do.

Sheldrick commentary reminds me of Will Gould surely it has to be this season ends up getting delisted.

Konstanty was supposed to be a prospect to work in tandem with Papley gets delisted without playing a game

Konstanty was always injured & when he wasn't he didn't do much. I am a bit pissed off over Magor. He was made to play in the backs. He was a small forward. When he was there he actually kicked a few goals. I think our development has been shite for 3 years.

 

[wolftone57]

Best 22 will be as is every year we think xxxx player from the ressies is going to step up they rarely do.

Sheldrick commentary reminds me of Will Gould surely it has to be this season ends up getting delisted.

Konstanty was supposed to be a prospect to work in tandem with Papley gets delisted without playing a game

I think Sheldrick has a few advantages over Will. One, he is a really good mid at Reserves level. Two, he is far more devoted to his game than Will. Will, as I found out this year when he played for Glenelg, really didn't take training very seriously. He actually didn't turn up to Glenelg training just before the Prelim & got dropped. He is now pursuing an American Football Scholarship.

 

[caesar88]

You don't want Rowbottom in the mids? He is the only mid that stood up in the GF

I think you mis-read my post. I said get rid of his role, not get rid of him haha.

 

[wolftone57]

Answering your question earnestly, I think it's everything KC, going all the way back to about 2018.

I think Horse's set-ups and tactics in and around stoppages are horrible. How many awful losses and midfield beltings do we have to sit through while media pundits on their weekly footy programs show freeze-frames of our mids being in the wrong position to stop an opposition clearance or win one themselves?

I think his talent assessment and subsequent development of the midfielders isn't much better.

He was given a generational talent in Isaac Heeney, who has played 200 games and only about 30 of them have been on the ball where he clearly played the best footy of his career.

He was given the second-best clearance player of his draft year in James Rowbottom, who is now a defensive mid on the record saying his focus isn't on winning the ball.

He was given a hard, defensively-strong inside mid as a junior in Chad Warner, who now hangs on the fringes for easy handball receives so he doesn't have to get his hands dirty.

He was given a junior mid rated even higher than Heeney in Callum Mills, who has played 162 games and about 130 of them have been in defence.

This after already being given George Hewett, who would go on to be a top 3 centre clearance player in the comp his first year after leaving us, while Horse only ever saw him as a tagger.

I like Horse but that is just torching through a whole generation of Swans midfielders and somehow finding a way to make every one of them less than what they otherwise could've been for us.

So I like Sheldrick and Cleary. I really do. Cleary especially. I think they are promising players. But I have absolutely no faith that they will be spared from all of the above shite happening to them, too. It's therefore hard to see them, or anyone new for that matter, being the "answer."

That is going to have to come from the one bloke who has had his fingerprints all over our midfield's Seven Year Ditch.

I agree. Horse has consistently mismanaged players. There was no reason to put Mills back or Heeney forward. He just did. Everyone who knew anything of their background is astounded. He continues this practice with Campbell, who is not a back & has been proven in junior footy to be an absolutely great goal sneak if resting forward & a prolific mid. Horse seems to have this strange opinion that if he has mids he has to change them into anything other than mids. I was astounded that in no match so far has Campbell been used as an inside mid. He was great at this in juniors.

I have been astounded at Horse's decisions for some seasons now. Not playing Dean Towers, who was in ripping form leading up to the GF. But playing Xavier Richards. Not to mention playing Mills & McVeigh injured. Sam Reid in 2022. Then last year Logan injured. Eff me. When do you effing learn?

 

[wolftone57]

I think you mis-read my post. I said get rid of his role, not get rid of him haha.

I agree with that. Let him be a total clearance player. Horse is totally defensive, yet his mid set ups do not help our players at all. If you constantly leave free players on the defensive side at stoppages then you are going to get absolutely ****ing murdered.

 

[wolftone57]

Answering your question earnestly, I think it's everything KC, going all the way back to about 2018.

I think Horse's set-ups and tactics in and around stoppages are horrible. How many awful losses and midfield beltings do we have to sit through while media pundits on their weekly footy programs show freeze-frames of our mids being in the wrong position to stop an opposition clearance or win one themselves?

I think his talent assessment and subsequent development of the midfielders isn't much better.

He was given a generational talent in Isaac Heeney, who has played 200 games and only about 30 of them have been on the ball where he clearly played the best footy of his career.

He was given the second-best clearance player of his draft year in James Rowbottom, who is now a defensive mid on the record saying his focus isn't on winning the ball.

He was given a hard, defensively-strong inside mid as a junior in Chad Warner, who now hangs on the fringes for easy handball receives so he doesn't have to get his hands dirty.

He was given a junior mid rated even higher than Heeney in Callum Mills, who has played 162 games and about 130 of them have been in defence.

This after already being given George Hewett, who would go on to be a top 3 centre clearance player in the comp his first year after leaving us, while Horse only ever saw him as a tagger.

I like Horse but that is just torching through a whole generation of Swans midfielders and somehow finding a way to make every one of them less than what they otherwise could've been for us.

So I like Sheldrick and Cleary. I really do. Cleary especially. I think they are promising players. But I have absolutely no faith that they will be spared from all of the above shite happening to them, too. It's therefore hard to see them, or anyone new for that matter, being the "answer."

That is going to have to come from the one bloke who has had his fingerprints all over our midfield's Seven Year Ditch.

I totally agree with you. He wastes talent

 

[wolftone57]

Just seeking clarity.
Can't disagree with your assessment of talent going in vs outcomes. I would only say that circumstances aren't always what they seem from the outside, which is not saying that you're wrong, but that there may be more to it.
Example: Heeney was terrific this year but less effective during our slump (IMO tactics issues for Heeney plus Grundy form loss) then at the worst possible moment his body gave up. My theory: role and overuse. I'd like to see him do less planned heavy lifting and spend a bit more time as a forward to reduce the load on his body a la Dangerfield.
You know my views on midfield coaching, roles and composition and yours are pretty similar. A few others have also posted along these lines.

I disagree with you. I think Heeney has been badly used. I thin the same can be said of Mills. When he came back he was used on a wing not in the mids. Campbell the same. This kid kicks goals. He is a gun mid. Then why waste him on a HBF? For effs sake. I am frustrated with the decisions made by this coaching team, led by Horse. Sheldrick should have at least been sub in the first final. If Parker had checked out & already decided to go to North then he should have been dropped. I do not believe a player who has decided to give allegiance to another club can give total allegiance to you if he has already checked out.

 

[wolftone57]

Mitchell, Rioli, Hodge, Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Lewis etc were a class above our midfield and were fired up after we somehow beat them in 2012. Not criminal, just reality. The margin, however, was embarrassing.

No they were not. Our players thought they only had to turn up. They were overconfident. I listened to them talking to media & they were ego up front. I was not happy with that. It turned out to be so much truth as they got the flogging they deserved. I watched until the very end. I must say it is something I did not do this time. I am over being flogged in GFs.

 

[wolftone57]

Agree on the coaching issue under Horse. Can't see him learning at this stage, and the club needs to be winning (even if it ultimately falls short) in the fickle Sydney market so they won't risk a change.

Being young players didn't stop Daicos, Warner, Ashcroft, Shezel, Harley Reid....etc etc. Pretty sure Rowbottom could have contributed right away too. He was killing it in the ressies from day dot.

If they have the physical tools to play and the mentality (Sheldrick especially does), there's no intrinsic reason why they can't be strong contributors.

We only have a few years left with this group. We are wasting it. Horse is not a coach who will coach another premiership. He doesn't have the one thing that Premiership coaches have. The ability to change the game in match. In 2012 he had a great group who were crazy about winning. But ever since, he has been battling to resurrect that sort of desire.