Seriously where are we at?

[Mr.Kennedy]

i completely agree with everything you just said,
except maybe dawson, i thought he tried hard and did some good things.
(smother in the 3rd quarter to stop a goal) but really all it did was reduce the margin.
we looked like we were running on the spot, especially geary? what was up witth his game?
we couldnt get a midfield clearance, murphy and judd were just dominating.
dal, well, i dont even know what to say, im sure he knows how bad he played and will turn it around next week, i just think he needs to get a bit tougher.
joey, no effective disposals, didnt really do anything at all,
gram tried hard, but got no support
i thought gilbert had a shocker personally, his kicking efficiency seems to be really down lately? goddard was reliable, and hayes easily best on ground, seemed to be the only one trying.

kosi, is just a lost cause, i seriously dont know what to do, i reckon we should just try stanley for 1 week it cant hurt us, we need the goals, milne tried his guts out, schneider was missing,
i thought clarke did some really good tackles, thats about it...
what elsse?
i really didnt like carltons game plan, they get the ball, take it out, get the stoppage, pass it to judd, clearance.
and again, and again, no skill, no nothing, but clearly, they played better than us.
umpiring was shit.

WOW

 

[Mr.Kennedy]

Carlton did the same to us. They are a very quick side, and probably yourselves and Geelong are not quite as fleet of foot, we perhaps have more structure than Carlton. As we found out with an unfit Rooke, and having Blake, Ottens, Hawkins, Mooney, Lonergan, Milburn, Pods and co in the same side on that occasion we were run off our feet, just like you were tonight.

I reckon just next time you play Carlton, as we hopefully will, you go in with a smaller side. King and Gardiner along with Kosi were just not really factors when you needed to try and find a matchup for 'the three Amigos' and plus the likes of Simpson, Judd etc. Too much tall timber means the smalls are needed on the ground more, thus less rotation possibilities. Reckon when you and us play Carlton next time, their plan and game style will not be as much a surprise as it was to us first time around.

What is to say that Carlton wont also make adjustments the next time we play Cats and Saints.

 

[sainter12riewoldt]

I left the game early because my lift wanted to. I honestly cannot find any positives out of that game besides the big one that I mentioned originally in that it now forces Lyon to change.

LastEmperor as if you want to drop Blake.

only one i can think off is Steven kicked two goals now has 4 from 3 games not bad for a 19yo 3rd gamer

 

[sainter12riewoldt]

Carlton did the same to us. They are a very quick side, and probably yourselves and Geelong are not quite as fleet of foot, we perhaps have more structure than Carlton. As we found out with an unfit Rooke, and having Blake, Ottens, Hawkins, Mooney, Lonergan, Milburn, Pods and co in the same side on that occasion we were run off our feet, just like you were tonight.


thats totally true. i was saying all last year there is two ways to beat the saints.
either you play lighning quick or you fight fire with fire and play the same zone

hence last year essendon won by quick movment and north won by playing the same style.

 

[Plugger35]

You guys were crucified by dodgy umpire non calls last night
I know you wouldnt like to use it as an excuse but your momentum was killed so many times by the umps and you could see the frustation and confusion in your players faces
Easily worst umpires performance of the year

I'm glad someone else noticed it. The umpiring was dreadful.

That free kick against Goddard for holding the ball when he hadn't even moved off his mark to take his kick was disgraceful. We were just getting back into the game and gaining some momentum at that stage and that awful decision allowed Carlton to bang on another couple of quick goals and killed off any chance we had of coming back. There were numerous other bad decisions all night, like handing Carlton a couple of soft 50 metres in that 3rd quarter which gifted them goals.

Having said that, we can't blame the umpiring entirely for that loss. Carlton outplayed us and we didn't deserve to win.

If we play Carlton again we need to play more quicker smalls and less lumbering talls, like Catsace said. We got ran off our feet at ground level by Carlton last night. Essendon play a similar quick running game to Carlton so we need to drop a couple of slower talls, ie. King, Clarke or Dawson and bring in a couple of smaller quicker players like Peake or Smith (is he fit or playing atm?). Also need another marking option up forward like Stanley, McEvoy, Cahill or Lynch.

 

[AidanNelson2009]

Hey, don't be too down with the Saints, you guys will bounce back and win your next 4 games, you'll be 9-2 which is very good. Carlton smashed our mob a couple of weeks ago because of thier pace, we've bounced back. St. Kilda are better than Carlton.

 

[Tutt54]

Very bored and just seeing how other clubs handle bad games.

With Nick not there its of course going to hurt.
Lenny Hayes is amazing - his inside and more important outside work has been fantastic over the last 6 weeks.

Ok here what Ross needs to do!

1) McKevoy needs to be a Full forward.(KIng Droped)
2)Kossie and Gardner need to be Rucks
3)Armatige needs to be in the side
4) Must have Goddard at CHF playing as the hit up.

you have 4 great weeks ahead to get it right Good Luck

Bye the way that was the worst umpiring I have seen in a long time last night-think someone wanted Carlton to get up at AFL house ??????

 

[Plugger35]

Very bored and just seeing how other clubs handle bad games.

With Nick not there its of course going to hurt.
Lenny Hayes is amazing - his inside and more important outside work has been fantastic over the last 6 weeks.

Ok here what Ross needs to do!

1) McKevoy needs to be a Full forward.(KIng Droped)
2)Kossie and Gardner need to be Rucks
3)Armatige needs to be in the side
4) Must have Goddard at CHF playing as the hit up.

you have 4 great weeks ahead to get it right Good Luck

Bye the way that was the worst umpiring I have seen in a long time last night-think someone wanted Carlton to get up at AFL house ??????

It seemed that way at times didn't it. If I was a conspiracy theorist I would say the AFL wanted Carlton to win last night to keep them in finals contention due to them being a big club and a big money spinner.

We didn't help ourselves by playing poorly but the umpires certainly didn't do us any favours. The bronx cheers from Saints supporters when we got a rare free kick illustrated what we thought of the umpiring.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Very bored and just seeing how other clubs handle bad games.

With Nick not there its of course going to hurt.
Lenny Hayes is amazing - his inside and more important outside work has been fantastic over the last 6 weeks.

Ok here what Ross needs to do!

1) McKevoy needs to be a Full forward.(KIng Droped)
2)Kossie and Gardner need to be Rucks
3)Armatige needs to be in the side
4) Must have Goddard at CHF playing as the hit up.

you have 4 great weeks ahead to get it right Good Luck

Bye the way that was the worst umpiring I have seen in a long time last night-think someone wanted Carlton to get up at AFL house ??????

Or hey the umpires arent allowed to bet on games, but they can slip their mates a few K cash to put on.

 

[stfan]

It gets worse....5 day break then a quick Essendon team.

.

We play on Sunday and not Saturday.

Armo will be well rested and 1 or 2 more who may come in will have played on Saturday with an 8 day break.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We play on Sunday and not Saturday.

Armo will be well rested and 1 or 2 more who may come in will have played on Saturday with an 8 day break.

And Nick Dal Santo will be well rested after making sure he didn't excert himself too much on Monday.

 

[stfan]

Very bored and just seeing how other clubs handle bad games.

With Nick not there its of course going to hurt.
Lenny Hayes is amazing - his inside and more important outside work has been fantastic over the last 6 weeks.

Ok here what Ross needs to do!

1) McKevoy needs to be a Full forward.(KIng Droped)
2)Kossie and Gardner need to be Rucks
3)Armatige needs to be in the side
4) Must have Goddard at CHF playing as the hit up.

you have 4 great weeks ahead to get it right Good Luck

Bye the way that was the worst umpiring I have seen in a long time last night-think someone wanted Carlton to get up at AFL house ??????

Ta.

1/ Agree, but it seems King has a hamstring strain, thus forcing the issue.
Ben in is a possiblity. As is Stanley. If Kosi rucks then Stanley would be the better option

2/ See 1/

3/I was dirty on him being dropped. With him out Lenny had no respite. Really missed Armo's tackles.

4/ Agree, but still rotating through the midfiled as well.


and 5/ Might have to give Gilbert a run down forward. Has the pace to create options and can play the link-man that Kosi cannot.

 

[sainter12riewoldt]

Very bored and just seeing how other clubs handle bad games.


Ok here what Ross needs to do!

1) McKevoy needs to be a Full forward.(KIng Droped)
2)Kossie and Gardner need to be Rucks
3)Armatige needs to be in the side
4) Must have Goddard at CHF playing as the hit up.

Bye the way that was the worst umpiring I have seen in a long time last night-think someone wanted Carlton to get up at AFL house ??????

your pretty much spot on with the line up
your first three i totally agree with i have been saying that ever since roo got injuried.
goddard can play foward sometime but i dont think he should be there permantly, perhap stanley there.

and the funny thing was Carlton were saying all threw the game that the umpires were robbing them. lol the saints had 1 free to 1/4 time and they were still complaining. the stats say we got more frees and i find that puzzling. if thats true thats the 1ST time we have won it this year

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We cannot have one key forward ( McEvoy, Gardiner, Kosi whoever ) + one part timer.
If Goddard is the 2nd forward he needs to pretty much play forward so he's there as a target when needed.
If he's not then he needs to be the third forward.

 

[Vdubs]

Up until this game, most opposition supporters could not believe how your team beat Pies and Freo and Dogs without Roo so relatively convincingly.(Dogs game excepted) They are all teams with a real flag chance, as is Carlton. As others have said, no need to get depressed, you are so used to winning it really cuts when you don't.

Saints are still my most respected and feared team, but I also think this season is more open than ever, and a Freo-Carlton GF is not beyond the realms of possibility, or a Pies-Swans etc. Comes down to which team has the most available talent in September, which in 08 was Hawks, 09 us. A loss like last night is probably positive-something to work on and a lot of pressure now on Pies as flag favourites.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Last season the Saints came out of the box red hot. All of the players were running hard tackling hard. We were scoring big without relying on Nick Riewoldt.
By the time the players were rested for the Hawks game, the team was starting to fall a bit flat, a bit like they have been so far this year. Their form in finals wasn't really better than it was at start of season.

They have just come off a much shorter pre-season than they have had for some time, and I'm hoping that one of the reasons for their "flatness" ( for want of a better word) is a result of a training regime designed for them to peak when it counts.
I hope its not just wishful thinking.

 

[Slattery_20]

2 goals from marks so far this year. Behind even Tigers. Cats are on 20-odd. Speaks volumes.
As a side you rely on getting 2-3 really tough clinch goals out of Roo every week... without them, there's no-one who's a blue-chip go-to type and that affects the confidence of everyone up the ground.

 

[Dool]

hi all,

i hardly post, but i read Bf everyday.

A concern for me is this 'stanly love'... he may be the answer, ONE DAY, but
atm he cant get near it in the VFL. There was talk on the weekend he may
be dropped to the vfl 2nds..........
Big Mac or Patto would be a better forward option. they at least offer something other than hype.
I get nervous watching raf like most, he makes some bad choices, but i think most come from taking the game on..(other than being out maked by betts)
I think Dawson may be done. Leave blake, effort cant be quiestioned (unlike dawson who will run past the ball, miss a bump, then sit back and watch the game)

the other real concern is McQualter pounder.... seems one paced (slower than last year)
unable to shut down in a defensive role, and not an attacking option.

changes for this week
out - King, Dawson, McQualter
in - Mac / Patto, peake, armo (or a player who earnt it at VFL passed few weeks)

 

[AFaiL]

I stopped reading when the OP mentioned Peake as a forward target.

And Gwilt is in career best form

Did you see Waite after quarter time? No. That's becaue Gwilt demolished him

 

[SaintsSeptember]

hi all,

i hardly post, but i read Bf everyday.

A concern for me is this 'stanly love'... he may be the answer, ONE DAY, but
atm he cant get near it in the VFL. There was talk on the weekend he may
be dropped to the vfl 2nds..........
Big Mac or Patto would be a better forward option. they at least offer something other than hype.
I get nervous watching raf like most, he makes some bad choices, but i think most come from taking the game on..(other than being out maked by betts)
I think Dawson may be done. Leave blake, effort cant be quiestioned (unlike dawson who will run past the ball, miss a bump, then sit back and watch the game)

the other real concern is McQualter pounder.... seems one paced (slower than last year)
unable to shut down in a defensive role, and not an attacking option.

changes for this week
out - King, Dawson, McQualter
in - Mac / Patto, peake, armo (or a player who earnt it at VFL passed few weeks)

So you are taking out a ruckman and bringing in a ruckman who is also expected to kick a bag of goals?
We need a ruck to ruck and a forward to replace Reiwoldt in the forward line.

I've been a bit subdued about Stanley for the reasons you mention.
However, we have seen he is a good kick and contested mark.
He would match up reasonably well against Essendon who probably aren't as big and physical as some of the VFL teams. He would have to be on the wing trying to outrun his oponents.
It's a risk, because if he was woefully inadequate there's little else he could do for the squad, and it would be like being a player down. But whatever happened couldn't be worse than Monday could it?

 

[Dool]

So you are taking out a ruckman and bringing in a ruckman who is also expected to kick a bag of goals?
We need a ruck to ruck and a forward to replace Reiwoldt in the forward line.

I've been a bit subdued about Stanley for the reasons you mention.
However, we have seen he is a good kick and contested mark.
He would match up reasonably well against Essendon who probably aren't as big and physical as some of the VFL teams. He would have to be on the wing trying to outrun his oponents.
It's a risk, because if he was woefully inadequate there's little else he could do for the squad, and it would be like being a player down. But whatever happened couldn't be worse than Monday could it?

I suggest replacing the ruckman with a forward. Kosi seems to offer (a little) more when running in the ruck. I think swapping a gardi / mac forward, may provide a contest, as they are less likely to 'hunt the footy' up the ground, when we are pressing forward.

I was a big fan of stanley in the nab, but i think good form get you picked, not potential.

Peake is interesting, as bad as he can be, i think having him in the team releases goddardand gram, odd i know. Peake has his limitations (lik 15 possies max.) but he filled the holes deeper (structure wise) that goddard and gram have had to do. could just be raf though.........

 

[Fehring]

I posted this in the Luke Ball thread on the main board -

If anything I try to be an honest, accountable poster on this site.

I am here to admit that during the 3rd quarter last night, as I watched Judd go ballistic on a clearly knackered Hayes, I though to myself "Gee we miss Lukey Ball"

We have a soft draw this year so hopefully we can win enough games to finish top four with Roo coming back. This year though that might mean playing in Perth, Sydney or Brisbane.

I'm going to call it now. If the Bombers get within 3 goals, or even manage to beat us, then zone footy in the AFL is nigh on dead. Hawthorn, Adelaide and the Saints are just too damn slow. Sydney realised this and picked up the right players to overhaul the game style. Freo too.

What I wouldn't give to have Luke Ball and pick 16 (Geez Jetta would be nice about now...)

I still hold out hope of getting that elusive flag but the hope is slowly dimming

A week ago it was killing the game and we needed to change the rules.

More generally, as I suspected, the Saints board is a perspective-free zone this week. See you all next week.

 

[SAINTsincebirth]

Alpha you have to seriously get over the ball thing. armo is a better player but had a personally forced holiday apparently.
judd never gets caught for holding the ball, until late in the last where the umpires couldn't even pretend not to see as they do.
Even may mates from other teams said he obviously is getting his head polished by the umps as they never pin him for holding the ball. (I meant the one on his shoulders) lenny was our best player so he didn't exactly get beaten by egg no nest.
mate its round 7 and yes could get worse but we still have abit of time to work things out.

 

[Alpha Male]

Alpha you have to seriously get over the ball thing. armo is a better player but had a personally forced holiday apparently.
judd never gets caught for holding the ball, until late in the last where the umpires couldn't even pretend not to see as they do.
Even may mates from other teams said he obviously is getting his head polished by the umps as they never pin him for holding the ball. (I meant the one on his shoulders) lenny was our best player so he didn't exactly get beaten by egg no nest.
mate its round 7 and yes could get worse but we still have abit of time to work things out.

I know mate. It just feels like we seriously missed our chance last season and every week that goes by I feel more and more like we aren't going to get it again this year.

I still believe we are going to be up for another couple of years but gee if we don't win the flag this season the pressure is going to be insane next season. I might have to take a year off so that I don't lose my mind...

Ah the joy of loving the Saints so much

 

[SAINTsincebirth]

I know mate. It just feels like we seriously missed our chance last season and every week that goes by I feel more and more like we aren't going to get it again this year.

I still believe we are going to be up for another couple of years but gee if we don't win the flag this season the pressure is going to be insane next season. I might have to take a year off so that I don't lose my mind...

Ah the joy of loving the Saints so much

Mate i'm with you as well , i was sure last year. the summer and season so far, is hurting, but hopefully we peak at the right time.