Autopsy Shameful game V Dees - tell it like it is right here.

[Caracas]

Hmmm. Maybe, we just shot our bolt against Geelong. We gave them a better game than the Saints.


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[ferball]

Yep.

How about our complete inability to keep the ball in our front half?

We don't have Thomas, Turner, Taylor or even new Taylor (thanks to injuries,) all of whom provide pressure that helps lock the ball in our front half.

 

[ferball]

Add JZ to that.

 

[Waussie]

History would indicate they were an underperforming team. Is ours? I think a lot of people are now of the opinion that if anything we were often an overperforming team.

In Bevo's first year was he also working with a largely changed football department? Was he forced to largely cut contact with his players for 2 months while the world went mad as a pandemic hit? Was he forced to lay off a quarter of his coaching staff? Was he then forced to relocate with his squad to a different state? Did he then get to play sweet fu** all games at his home ground? Was his team sitting on top of the 'games lost to injuries for best 22 players' with the gap to second being a country mile? Did he have access to a second tier competition to keep lesser lights match conditioned and improving, and to bring injured players back in through?

It's apples and oranges bud. I'm sorry that we are sucking rectum like it's going out of style, but right now everything is f’ed. On field, off field, inbetween field. It's all f’ed. And we have a first year coach trying to discover what his list is made of before he makes decisions on the TWENTY out of contract players he has.

EDIT: I'm not even saying Shaw is a good coach. I don't know. He might end up being a sh*t truck that we replace at the end of next year. But the deck is so far stacked against him this year that surely you have to concede it's incredibly bloody hard to make any solid judgements against his long term prospects?

This

 

[Merlin007]

Okay, so another rebuild upon a 2016 rebuild is a fallacy in that case.

I hope not....different regimes, so hopefully a different result

 

[Mav]

John Ralph just said, that he and some other football jouro's (gossip columnists) would beat North at the moment

Make it happen Euge.

I want to see Zurhaar run through Barrett and Wilson.

 

[Caracas]

We’ll be right. We’re underestimating the loss of our two mature, big bodied beasts in Cunners and Jack. It came home to roost after the Geelong game. Snake, you correctly called how that game would play out. We just forgot about the obvious ramifications three days later.


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[amaz199]

First 20 secs, Oliver gets a free-kick, finds Petracca free on the wing, he hits another target just as easily. Oliver should be forced to go long from the get-go. If he goes long down the middle, there's a risk we will get it back and all of a sudden there's acres of space for us to expose. But, since there were loose players everywhere they went wide and could get away with it.

We were simply not switched on.

 

[Ashley B]

The question is Bigeasy how many years should we go to the draft (likely bottom 4 finishes)? Imo i think minimum 2 maximum 3. We need at least 5 to 6 round 1 picks and I would be leaning towards skillful midfielders.

Got to hold your nerve this year as it is a shocker but it's the best thing for the club in the long term.

All of our weaknesses are on display and Shaw isn't hiding away from it by continuing to play players, especially the youngsters, in positions that are in the coal face. Our backline contained McKay, Durdin and Bonar while our forward line was mostly kids.

We need to find out who has it as we already know with the older players. Sad to see Bonar go down as he was in our top 3 performers up until then. Great to see Larkey bag 4 with our midfield and LDU was impressive in his 3rd game back.

Goldy played less than 50% in the ruck, Higgins across half back and Shaw opted to try McKay and Durdin on their KPD's initially. Our spine most of the game contained McKay, Durdin, Dumont and Larkey so there definitely is some tough love happening at the moment from Shaw by giving more responsibility to the younger guys while playing senior players out of their normal positions like JMac, Higgins and Goldy.

We have a long injury list, trying to change to a new game plan which while looks haphazard and dysfunctional at the moment and years of topping up has brought us to this point. Yes we could paper over the cracks again and pretend we are a chance for a flag but judging Shaw on this year is complete nonsense. He and Brady have not even had a draft to demonstrate their imprimatur on this list yet we're calling for Shaw's head already.

What we are seeing is a team undergoing a transformation in an environment where the whole season has been compromised with Covid, Hubs, no VFL, reduced coaching team and long injury list. Yeah it's ugly at the moment but to get access to the high end talent then you need to be crap and for the first time in a long time, the club recognises this and are actively doing something about it. The least we can do is support the club this year during this shitshow of a season and default to 2021 to pass judgement on our progress under this regime.

#bigpicture.

Go Roos

 

[amaz199]

Was Polec on Petracca? If so that is a big X for Polec.

Edit: Dumont originally was on him but he went to another man. Dumont should've stayed on him since Polec was heading towards the contest.

 

[ferball]

I think that 2016 rebuild has ended, the topping up in 17 and 18 hampered that.


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We didn't top up in 2017.

Our oldest recruit was Billy Hartung who was 22.

In 2016 we drafted Josh Williams. In 2017 we got Hartung and Gordon Narrier thru the draft and Alex Morgan (21) via FA specifically to run along with Will Walker. LDU and Kyron Hayden seem to have changes up in pace as well.

That year we got rid of Logie, Spitta, LT as well as Wagner, Fordam, Taylor and Fishy (who would be known as the haircut these days). Even Hall, Pittard and Polec were recruited cos they can run.

 

[the big lebowski]

The complete inability to move the ball from the back half is all on Shaw.

Maybe. But he can only work with what he has. Start of 2019 we played a handball happy game that fell apart, as most knew it would, in spectacular fashion in round 1. Any team that could put an ounce of pressure on us could turn the ball over and score. When shaw came in he changed it up to the most basic of game plans, kick long down the line, re-set. Now that has been found out massively this year, so he’s trying to mo e the ball on quickly.

The problem with this is

1: most on our list struggle to handball
2: even more struggle to kick
3: the vast majority are unbelievably slow

So. What can he do?

He’s clearly worked on skills. Remember hearing he put more time into it than we had before? Shaw may or may not be good, but the list is terrible.

Cunners. Anderson. Simpkin. Dumont. LDU.

So slowwwwwwwww.

 

[The Anvil]

John Ralph just said, that he and some other football jouro's (gossip columnists) would beat North at the moment

Overestimating his footy ability just as he does with his journalistic ability.


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[the big lebowski]

We need speed and skill across the entire ground.

I can't believe how sh*t the underbelly of the side were yesterday.

I almost smashed the TV on the 2-3 occasions Hall managed to fu** up a turnover goal scoring opportunity in an acre of space in the middle of the ground.

We have some genuinely good players, however we have 5-10 players in this side consistently getting a game who would be amongst the worst 5 or so players getting regular games in any side in the league. Just horrific.


Jy is off, but he's still putting in a shift.

Even if Cunners is back next year we need to begin the replacement phase, he's going to be a guy that may retire as soon as 2022 imo. He doesn't love AFL footy, certainly not in a cellar dweller side at the end of his career when he could be back on the farm.

LDU showed a heap, there was movement when he rag dolled Oliver with the thrust of his hips walking through a tackle. He and Jy just need to be given the keys to the midfield ASAP.

We can't fix this list overnight, no way, but we can begin building a really good base to work off, whether that is 2 x mids, or go after a McDonald or Thilthorp in conjunction with a Phillips/Hollands to start building up a long term partner for Larkey, or DGB to replace Tarrant.


We are so deficient across so many key areas, this is definitely a 3-4 year rebuild. We need quality mids, quality tall defenders, 2-3 genuine quality small forwards, and some quality half backs. Then we need to procure or draft one of the better ruckman in a draft cycle pretty much now.

We can't do that in one draft, it's going to take 4-5 x 1st and 4-5 x 2nd round picks to fill up those slots.

Especially when you factor in we are losing Goldstein, Cunners, Higgins, Tarrant over that same period.

The problem with turning to complete sh*t like we have, we have probably given up some FA opportunities like Zac Williams etc.

Serious consideration needs to be had r.e Brown, as any genuine currency may cut off a year of any rebuild.

Absolutely no scenario should be off the table, we should commit to a full rebuild now (almost publicly), then we can really sink our teeth into what is a phenomenal draft in 2021.

Please god. This.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Maybe. But he can only work with what he has. Start of 2019 we played a handball happy game that fell apart, as most knew it would, in spectacular fashion in round 1. Any team that could put an ounce of pressure on us could turn the ball over and score. When shaw came in he changed it up to the most basic of game plans, kick long down the line, re-set. Now that has been found out massively this year, so he’s trying to mo e the ball on quickly.

The problem with this is

1: most on our list struggle to handball
2: even more struggle to kick
3: the vast majority are unbelievably slow

So. What can he do?

He’s clearly worked on skills. Remember hearing he put more time into it than we had before? Shaw may or may not be good, but the list is terrible.

Cunners. Anderson. Simpkin. Dumont. LDU.

So slowwwwwwwww.

This same list looked like lightning against Port/Richmond/Collingwood no more than 20 games ago.

It’s the style, not the personnel.

 

[the big lebowski]

This same list looked like lightning against Port/Richmond/Collingwood no more than 20 games ago.

It’s the style, not the personnel.

Nope. Don’t agree.

We thrive on teams not coming to play/applying pressure.

That display from Port was insipid. The tigers were in the midst of a losing streak at the time. Same with the pies I think. Either way, those wins said more about the opposition than us imo.

And they lead the club to think we were better than we are. Which, along with the same thing in 2018, has lead us to where we are.

 

[Orange Peanut]

Who was the least one before Boomer that got you excited and the opposition on edge.... Turtle?

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Declan Mountford. But he got dropped after that game and I don't think he played again.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Nope. Don’t agree.

We thrive on teams not coming to play/applying pressure.

That display from Port was insipid. The tigers were in the midst of a losing streak at the time. Same with the pies I think. Either way, those wins said more about the opposition than us imo.

And they lead the club to think we were better than we are. Which, along with the same thing in 2018, has lead us to where we are.

Don’t fall into the ‘we didn’t win, they lost’ bullshit.

We look slick under the roof, because conditions don’t impact our skill execution.

In the elements, it all goes to shit.

 

[Themanbun]

Nope. Don’t agree.

We thrive on teams not coming to play/applying pressure.

That display from Port was insipid. The tigers were in the midst of a losing streak at the time. Same with the pies I think. Either way, those wins said more about the opposition than us imo.

And they lead the club to think we were better than we are. Which, along with the same thing in 2018, has lead us to where we are.

Tigers were not in the midst of a losing streak. The streak started after they played us.

The Pies had won 9 of their last 10 before playing us.

You're just making things up now mate.

 

[the big lebowski]

Tigers were not in the midst of a losing streak. The streak started after they played us.

The Pies had won 9 of their last 10 before playing us.

You're just making things up now mate.

Ok you’re right. We were the first loss in a poor month of footy for both Richmond and Collingwood. I think the point remains, as both of our opponents had a series of bad losses after playing us.

 

[ferball]

Ok you’re right. We were the first loss in a poor month of footy for both Richmond and Collingwood. I think the point remains, as both of our opponents had a series of bad losses after playing us.

That is cos we smashed the crap out of both of them and they took weeks to recover isn't it?

 

[tales129]

At the very least he looks a good stopper. Some closing speed and knack fir positioning. Size and leap aswell. The disposal stuff is teachable imo. I don’t recall Scott Thompson being a precise kick in his earky years. He was a superb kick in the 2nd half if his career.

got outpointed positioning wise last night. Lost body touch Multiple times and got into really poor spots whilst the ball was in the air.

weidemann should have had 6 in the first half.

hes been much better than the reports from earlier in the year. Needs to show a lot more to be a lock though, especially with an ageing Tarrant. I’d have him in the needs more games camp

 

[hcd199]

Nope. Don’t agree.

We thrive on teams not coming to play/applying pressure.

That display from Port was insipid. The tigers were in the midst of a losing streak at the time. Same with the pies I think. Either way, those wins said more about the opposition than us imo.

And they lead the club to think we were better than we are. Which, along with the same thing in 2018, has lead us to where we are.

Happy to grant the Port game as us walking over a switched-off side, but not the Richmond or Collingwood games - in both cases, nothing about our opponents suggested they hadn't come to play, rather it was fairly clear that our highly aggressive intent and playing style had them rattled (the moment that stood out for me was Pendlebury panic-handballing as we converged on him; completely out of character for a player who, on a good day or bad, usually looks like he has all the time in the world to pick out the best option despite the congestion around him). It's easy to look back and say the opposition were off because they lost a few afterwards, but based on how they looked in those games, it wasn't their lack of pressure that led us to win, but the extent to which we applied our own. (The Port game is a good contrast - as good as we were, everything was easy for us because Port didn't put any pressure on us at all.)

Questions should definitely be asked if those in charge placed undue emphasis on these few great wins whilst turning a blind eye to some equally poor showings elsewhere in those years. But neither should good performances be written off as the result of our opponents' form. The Richmond and Collingwood wins last year were visibly driven by our manic pressure and aggression. Can we depend upon that kind of intense performance every week? Probably not, and I don't think it's unreasonable of Shaw to be trying out various different gameplans to determine what's actually possible with our playing group. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't start to be alarmed about the structural issues that only seem to be getting worse as the season progresses...

 

[Yoko and me]

It's not that limited KG, what if it's just a sh*t game plan strategy?

Can "change" be a bad thing also?



Agree, talk like that at this stage is ridiculous.

Agree, but they can all still walk home

 

[Le Grille]

We didn't top up in 2017.

Our oldest recruit was Billy Hartung who was 22.

In 2016 we drafted Josh Williams. In 2017 we got Hartung and Gordon Narrier thru the draft and Alex Morgan (21) via FA specifically to run along with Will Walker. LDU and Kyron Hayden seem to have changes up in pace as well.

That year we got rid of Logie, Spitta, LT as well as Wagner, Fordam, Taylor and Fishy (who would be known as the haircut these days). Even Hall, Pittard and Polec were recruited cos they can run.

The Polec , hall and pittard transactions in that period regardless of why they were recruited are not rebuilding acquisitions, it spent major currency if we wanted to get out of high first round to avoid having to use it on thomas we should have traded it for future picks, potential pick upgrades, to get above a potential bidding threshold or for a longer term prospects. Any rebuilding ground that commenced in 16 and 17 was not followed up on by this particular run of recruiting. Effectively we stuck our dick in halfway.


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