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Shaun Burgoyne- what's he REALLY worth?
- Thread starter Drummond
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worthy
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Pelchen has stated that no players get offered up, clearly PA have enquired about him.
If Brown is traded it must be a straight swap, maybe throw in pick 69, but if we give up Brown and pick 9 for Burgoyne pelchen will be lynched.
As it is, allowing PA to speak to Brown he should be flogged.
- Banned
- #153
ok, I get that you "think" his 2007 was awesome, but its all relative isn't it?
and plenty of excellent players who don't deserve judd like packages, despite your coach's regular claims.
so there is nothing in common. no injury record, no history of being unable to shake a tag, no form erraticism, and no history of his supporters regularly bagging him for being lazy.
1 BnF however is a better achievement IMO, that 1 AA - on the bench.
you're making the "I" part fairly clear, presumably because you know that whilst you or I haven't made that claim, plenty of your brethren have.
couple of things. no cigar for almost. and 20 disposals for a gun midfielder is a mediocre stat on its own. that's called not getting it enough.
this is rubbish. he lacks the tank and inclination to track back. when his tag gets a bit much for him, he drifts forward to try and shake it.
this theory would hold, if the ball was never in the back half of the field and therefore there were no stoppages backward of half forward.
but again, he's a good player no one's arguing that. especially not you, but in a thread about what he's worth that isn't correlating with many of the claims.
- Banned
- #155
Exactly. Well said.
What is Shaun Burgoyne REALLY worth?
Campbell Brown and Pick #9.
Campbell Brown and Pick #9.
Burgoyne certainly isn't worth Pick 9 PLUS Campbell Brown.
Surely Hawthorn will get something else as well.
Surely Hawthorn will get something else as well.
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
What I'm confused about is why is Rick Ladson untouchable but Campbell Brown trade bait?
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
I hope so. That's my plan to get rid of Schulz.
Brown's reputation and brovado far outstrip his actual output imo.
Not saying he's no good at all before the die hards have a cry. Just that his output is over stated.
A hard man/enforcer with scratchy skills is fine...but when his team needed him to play this role when it counted to make the finals, what did he do??? Bugger all....
....slapped Mondries in the arm (i think we were all embarrassed for him), mouthed off to the bench, pretended to be scary, and then sooked and made vielled threats in the ultimate lack of humility and dignity...after the loss!
I rekon Hawthorn should be jumping at Brown + 9 for Burgoyne.
Not saying he's no good at all before the die hards have a cry. Just that his output is over stated.
A hard man/enforcer with scratchy skills is fine...but when his team needed him to play this role when it counted to make the finals, what did he do??? Bugger all....
....slapped Mondries in the arm (i think we were all embarrassed for him), mouthed off to the bench, pretended to be scary, and then sooked and made vielled threats in the ultimate lack of humility and dignity...after the loss!
I rekon Hawthorn should be jumping at Brown + 9 for Burgoyne.
- Aug 7, 2008
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Yep. Key defenders like brown are not exactly a dime a dozen!
worthy
Cancelled
Key defender?
You are correct however, defenders like Brown are not exactly a dime a dozen.
Our defence is seen as our weakness, why would we give up an AA defender to get a quality yet inconsistant mid.
Maybe the rumour on Young being in some doubt to get over his hip? injury is true.
Maybe we think Whitecross can take over Browns role, if Brown stays, is there a spot for Whitecross?
kaysee
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They did... when he was a draftee, but they decided to trade their pick for Matthew Bode instead. Fail.
Chief football writer for the Adelaide Advertiser
He's ususally all over everything in Radelaide...he is the one who broke the Burgoyne story before anyone and also reported at the time that he'd end up selecting Hawthorn as his first choice before anyone else even knew he wated to leave...
...so i'll take it as accurate if he's reporting it.
kaysee
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Longish post...
FFS... some stupid stupid comments in this thread by bias Hawthorn supporters, bias Port supporters, trolling Adelaide supporters and just general supporters who have no idea (must be school holidays).
For starters:
1) Hawthorn: have been chasing SB for years and aggressively in the last 6 months. They wouldn't court him for 6mths if (A) they had injury concerns (B) if he wouldn't add great... GREAT... value to their team. This is not a passing idea they've had in recent week or so. They WANT him! They research and know more about him then any 'expert' posting here.
2) Port Adelaide: also value him greatly. Having developed him since a teenager (SANFL Magpies and AFL Power) they know what he is worth to them. A highly veristile player who's skills are almost unmatched in the AFL. Easily one of the most penetrating and accurate kicks in the AFL and easily one of the best clearance players in the AFL. Players like this don't need 30 possessions to influence a game. 10 SB kicks = 25 Kane Cornes kicks. SB also brings some of the best midfield/clearance knowledge to Hawthorn. SB was Robin to Lade's Batman. They worked well as a team to become the leagues best clearance duo. Just as Lade will take his set play, midfield and clearance knowledge/experience to Richmond, so too will SB to Hawthorn. I don't believe this aspect has been mentioned much before and is worth considering... the knowledge SB will bring to Hawthorn in this area. I believe Hawthorn aren't renowned clearance winners (but I might be very wrong here).
3) SB and taggers: Media beatup. Port have a bad year find a reason. Easier and more sensational to blame a player instead of a gameplan. Similar to Pearce this year. Fact is most AFL midfielders struggle with taggers from time to time. Simon Black has often been tagged right out of gamesby Kane Cornes. Luke Hodge was tagged right out of the game by Tom Logan earlier this year. The best midfielders will be up and down from week to week depending on opposition and our much help they get from their teammates. Stevie Johnson had a forgetable GF... how does this detract from his value? Not much IMO... same with SB... they still have the PROVEN reputation of breaking games open.
4) Draft Picks: Overrated. First, this year's draft is a WEAK draft. Admittedly by all AFL scouting and coaching staff. Comparing pick #9's from last year's 2nd strongest ever draft to this year's weak draft is invalid. A fairer picks 15-20 in previous drafts as a guide to what pick #9 may fetch this year. This year it slides away very quickly after the 1st handful. From then on it is purely a LOTTERY... an unknown... you might get GOLD, but equally you might get a DUD, or more then likely you will get a fringe type player. With SB Hawthorn KNOW what they are getting injury and all (see point 1). There is security in that! Probably around 4/5 years (or 100 good quality games) of quality service and potentially more premierships. No-one really knows what pick #9 will deliver... could be 250 games, could be 0, or perhaps 100 games of mixed quality games. Again it is unknown if pick #9 will improve Port's next climb up the ladder or not.
5) Rating Extra Players: Port have always declared they want an experienced player who can step into their top 22 in the trade for SB. Pick #9 doesn't give this (see point 4), players offered by Hawthorn don't give this, hence they've been interested in Lewis, Birchall and Schoenmakers (sp). I think if most neutral supporters rated SB and these 3 players and could only pick 1 player for their team it would be something like SB/Lewis>> Birchall>>>> SM. Yes, Birchall and SM have youth and potential on their side, but like the old cricket saying "Runs on the board are worth more"... potential doesn't guarantee anything SB and Lewis have the "runs", Birchall is in good recent form, SM has potential. As for the players Hawthorn have offered... at the moment they're fringe players and don't meet Port's top priority of a ready made player.
So what is SB worth? Good question.
Ok news in this morning... Hawthorn (who would know more then anyone else posting here) apparently rate SB = Pick #9 + Campbell Brown.
Honestly, my most optimistic thoughts were Pick #9 + Lewis, I was hoping for Pick #9 + Birchell, but as a minimum would have accepted Pick #9 + Dowler.
Pick #9 + Brown IMO is about the same as Pick #9 + Birchell, so if he accepts I think it is fair for both clubs.
FFS... some stupid stupid comments in this thread by bias Hawthorn supporters, bias Port supporters, trolling Adelaide supporters and just general supporters who have no idea (must be school holidays).
For starters:
1) Hawthorn: have been chasing SB for years and aggressively in the last 6 months. They wouldn't court him for 6mths if (A) they had injury concerns (B) if he wouldn't add great... GREAT... value to their team. This is not a passing idea they've had in recent week or so. They WANT him! They research and know more about him then any 'expert' posting here.
2) Port Adelaide: also value him greatly. Having developed him since a teenager (SANFL Magpies and AFL Power) they know what he is worth to them. A highly veristile player who's skills are almost unmatched in the AFL. Easily one of the most penetrating and accurate kicks in the AFL and easily one of the best clearance players in the AFL. Players like this don't need 30 possessions to influence a game. 10 SB kicks = 25 Kane Cornes kicks. SB also brings some of the best midfield/clearance knowledge to Hawthorn. SB was Robin to Lade's Batman. They worked well as a team to become the leagues best clearance duo. Just as Lade will take his set play, midfield and clearance knowledge/experience to Richmond, so too will SB to Hawthorn. I don't believe this aspect has been mentioned much before and is worth considering... the knowledge SB will bring to Hawthorn in this area. I believe Hawthorn aren't renowned clearance winners (but I might be very wrong here).
3) SB and taggers: Media beatup. Port have a bad year find a reason. Easier and more sensational to blame a player instead of a gameplan. Similar to Pearce this year. Fact is most AFL midfielders struggle with taggers from time to time. Simon Black has often been tagged right out of gamesby Kane Cornes. Luke Hodge was tagged right out of the game by Tom Logan earlier this year. The best midfielders will be up and down from week to week depending on opposition and our much help they get from their teammates. Stevie Johnson had a forgetable GF... how does this detract from his value? Not much IMO... same with SB... they still have the PROVEN reputation of breaking games open.
4) Draft Picks: Overrated. First, this year's draft is a WEAK draft. Admittedly by all AFL scouting and coaching staff. Comparing pick #9's from last year's 2nd strongest ever draft to this year's weak draft is invalid. A fairer picks 15-20 in previous drafts as a guide to what pick #9 may fetch this year. This year it slides away very quickly after the 1st handful. From then on it is purely a LOTTERY... an unknown... you might get GOLD, but equally you might get a DUD, or more then likely you will get a fringe type player. With SB Hawthorn KNOW what they are getting injury and all (see point 1). There is security in that! Probably around 4/5 years (or 100 good quality games) of quality service and potentially more premierships. No-one really knows what pick #9 will deliver... could be 250 games, could be 0, or perhaps 100 games of mixed quality games. Again it is unknown if pick #9 will improve Port's next climb up the ladder or not.
5) Rating Extra Players: Port have always declared they want an experienced player who can step into their top 22 in the trade for SB. Pick #9 doesn't give this (see point 4), players offered by Hawthorn don't give this, hence they've been interested in Lewis, Birchall and Schoenmakers (sp). I think if most neutral supporters rated SB and these 3 players and could only pick 1 player for their team it would be something like SB/Lewis>> Birchall>>>> SM. Yes, Birchall and SM have youth and potential on their side, but like the old cricket saying "Runs on the board are worth more"... potential doesn't guarantee anything SB and Lewis have the "runs", Birchall is in good recent form, SM has potential. As for the players Hawthorn have offered... at the moment they're fringe players and don't meet Port's top priority of a ready made player.
So what is SB worth? Good question.
Ok news in this morning... Hawthorn (who would know more then anyone else posting here) apparently rate SB = Pick #9 + Campbell Brown.
Honestly, my most optimistic thoughts were Pick #9 + Lewis, I was hoping for Pick #9 + Birchell, but as a minimum would have accepted Pick #9 + Dowler.
Pick #9 + Brown IMO is about the same as Pick #9 + Birchell, so if he accepts I think it is fair for both clubs.
- Mar 20, 2004
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- #170
good post, but the knees the concern for me and his poor recent form, watever the reason, i wouldn"t offer whats been suggested, 9/brown, but as you say the hawks would know a lot more than we do, TBH i havnt seen a great deal of shaun, my mrs made me give up pay TV a few years back and we rarely get port games free to air in victoria, but IMO with his age, knee and poor recent form id be very carefull about giving to much, asking for pick 9 and brown is what an elite midfielder would possibly go for at the age of 27, id hardly call burgoyne elite, even without seeing a great deal of him, also you guys saying he cant shake tags, in a strong midfield you cant tag everyone.
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