Should the Dees and the Pies do a hard reset like the Tigers?

[Dr Tigris]

Given that Tassie will soon come in and compromise a couple of drafts, and with overall just the amount of sides in the competition it's got me thinking that clubs may be more inclined to trade away value as per what Richmond did this year and start looking at how a 2 year rebuild could be achieved. The model is really just trading out players still with value and aiming for as many top 30 picks in a single draft then you are just naturally not very good for a couple of years until ideally that bulk of players come good.

If we look at recent premiership dynasty sides like Melbourne (2021) and Collingwood (2023) who aren't likely to win anymore flags after such an unprecedented run of success, should they just face the music and go all in so that they aren't trying to rebuild with the minimum draft capital each year?

Richmond fell into the 'hard reset', rather than planned to do it - until mid seaon last year.

IMHO clubs will wait to see what happens before doing the major trade and draft thing immediately after a contending phase. Bringing in a heap of high end draftees whilst still having a good core of experienced players used to winning is rare (non-existent) in previous hard rebuild clubs.

• Does having that core of mature players make a difference?
• How do you balance having what looks like a team that is still capable of competing (if fit and in form) with so many young players of talent? i.e. Do you try to win or try to develop for the future?
• Will you be lucky enough to have the right payers wanting/willing to go to clubs able and willing to pay through the nose for them?

So no, clubs won't try to redo Richmond 2024 (they'd be nuts to want an injury list that long, a disfunctional coaching group, and a previosu coach who left the list in dissaray).
But over time if the Tigers rebound fast with a top list then clubs that have slid past their contention will liekly give it a shot.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Given that Tassie will soon come in and compromise a couple of drafts, and with overall just the amount of sides in the competition it's got me thinking that clubs may be more inclined to trade away value as per what Richmond did this year and start looking at how a 2 year rebuild could be achieved. The model is really just trading out players still with value and aiming for as many top 30 picks in a single draft then you are just naturally not very good for a couple of years until ideally that bulk of players come good.

If we look at recent premiership dynasty sides like Melbourne (2021) and Collingwood (2023) who aren't likely to win anymore flags after such an unprecedented run of success, should they just face the music and go all in so that they aren't trying to rebuild with the minimum draft capital each year?

What makes you think Richmond's build will only take two years? Literally none of your draft picks have even played at the level. They could all be busts yet. Then you've got few experienced guns and a bunch of shit kids with little trade value and you're looking at 10 years plus.
I'm sure this won't happen but it's not impossible.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

What makes you think Richmond's build will only take two years? Literally none of your draft picks have even played at the level. They could all be busts yet. Then you've got few experienced guns and a bunch of shit kids with little trade value and you're looking at 10 years plus.
I'm sure this won't happen but it's not impossible.

yep, we are all in for 2024 being a super-draft, and the top of 2025 being very good too.

 

[L_W_P]

Richmond got amazing deals done this year. Would the Dees get the same sort of deals for Trac & Oliver?

Maybe. Depends on who's really buying.

Carlton and maybe Essendon could bid for Trac? Might get 2x first rounders out of them for him.

Geelong were looking at Oliver but I don't know if they'd give up 2x first rounders. Saints might look at him if they miss on LDU?

If the Suns lose Rowell they might pay up.

I can't see Collingwood having a fire sale though. I think that club is building on the idea of never dropping down.

They have some questions on KPD depth, and I'm not sure what's happening with the likes of Allan & Macrae coming on in he midfield, but they'll be thereabouts as long as the Daicos boys keep performing.

Being a big club with big games helps on the trade/FA front too.

Wouldn't be shocked if the look to move their 2026/2027 picks on early for some bigger name recruits as well. Rowell maybe?

Just get out of the Tassie drafts and try to load up for top 4 during those early years.

 

[Django]

Seems like a loaded topic. Obviously time will tell if Rchmond made the right choices, although to be fair it does seem as though the choice was not theirs to make. They responded to the cards they're were dealt and did so brilliantly. Given the recent success they have more leeway than most. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The Dees are due a good year in my opinion. Lots of talent at their disposal, although it is debatable that the coaches have not got the best out of it yet. Far from scorched rebuild territory though. They could still win the flag this year if they get lucky.

The Pies to me are interesting. In my opinion they are teetering on the cliff, but they are confident they have another shot in them. They have been up for a long time, but without the success that the Tigers have had even given the 2023 flag. From an outsiders perspective it does seem a bit like Daicos or bust, so they will be an interesting watch. It could fall apart very quickly and hard.

What does all this mean? Well nothing really. It's preseason. The Tigers would do well to not finish bottom next year. Dees could easily rebound and have a solid year (similar to the Pies when McCrae came on board), and the Pies are hoping to squeeze every last ounce of talent out of their list before it could perhaps seemingly fall of a cliff.

I am excited by my own clubs prospects. I expect us to be close to the bottom, but there will be plenty of new faces to watch so I am hoping that is exciting. The Pies look the most vulnerable to me. An old list in need of youth and rejuvenation. As a Tiger supporter, it's a familiar look.

To answer the question. No. Richmond is a unique case at this point in time.

 

[danster168]

B: McVee, May, Lever

HB: Windsor, Petty, Salem

C: Langdon, Oliver, Sharp

HF: Tholstrup, van Rooyen, Langford

F: Fritsch, Turner, Pickett

FOLL: Gawn, Petracca, Viney

IC: Rivers, Bowey, Lindsay, Chandler

SUB: Sparrow

The rest: Melksham/McDonald/Aidan Johnson/Kynan Brown/Howes/Moniz-Wakefield/Woewodin/Hore/Spargo/Jefferson should all get games.

I think it's escaped most opposition supporters that Melbourne have well and truly already embarked on revitalizing their list.

The 11 bolded players in the best 23 above are all 23 and under, that's half the team. Seven are top 20 picks.

If you included players 25 and under it's 14 of the 23.

This team is based on regular track watchers, general supporter agreement, and a small amount of projection with the inclusion of top 10 talents Langford and Lindsay. I have no doubt they'll play the bulk of the season.

It's a furphy to think Melbourne need a ''hard reset''.

Of the bolded players, who has AA potential? I'd say Pickett is the only one. Maybe McVee if the AA selectors actually watched footy. The rest are flankers/role players and I've got massive concerns over Howes/Langford/Jefferson. Jefferson's lack of competitiveness, Langford is super slow and Howes has stalled. We've got a lot of depth in terms of role players but weldon't have much star factor coming through. Van Rooyen is a good, mihocek sort of player.

Bowey has stalled as a player and the coaches dont seem to rate Kynan Brown/Wakefield and Woewodin.

 

[hawkman]

Is Hard Reset more powerful a response than a Rebuild?

I think Hard Reset means you are one of the worst teams of the AFL era and have lucked into getting some value for a few of your players

 

[Saints4ever]

If Richmond had the choice of draft picks or still have Rioli and Bolton on their list they would choose Rioli and Bolton everyday of the week.
Let’s not pretend that Richmond choose this path.
Anyway they have 3 flags and can afford to sit around the bottom for awhile before the sharks come circling.

 

[TigerTime88]

If Richmond had the choice of draft picks or still have Rioli and Bolton on their list they would choose Rioli and Bolton everyday of the week.
Let’s not pretend that Richmond choose this path.
Anyway they have 3 flags and can afford to sit around the bottom for awhile before the sharks come circling.

Disagree at least from a supporters perspective. Those players are brilliant but Rioli is on the wrong side of his career now injury wise and has always been prone to a niggle. Bolton a star but wasn't exactly lifting us up from 18th.

We have no high end young talent and it will be so much more enjoyable to watch young guys like Smilie, Horton, Lalor ect even if we are getting smashed.

We can afford some lean years due to success as you said.