Should WA clubs be allowed to train in groups of 10?

[Meteoric Rise]

Sadly we see the above affliction a lot with Victorians who can't get it through their thick skulls that the 97% of island landmass that sits outside of the Melbourne city limits is called Australia. There would be no jobs for Victorians if the efforts of others did not build the economic opportunity for them including the bankrupt VFL suburban competition that like everything else in Victoria desperately needed our money and enterprise to make viable. Then suddenly everything changes like the whiny spoilt fat little shit at school who cheats in the school yard because he is a spoilt fat little shit who cant succeed otherwise.

After reflecting on this quality sandgroper post for about 3 milliseconds I realised it is both true and relevant. The trouble is the true bits are not relevant and the relevant bits are not true. Leave it to your more able statemates Balls in, some of them were actually starting to talk some sense.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

I honestly think that all that has happened to create the illusion of MCG tenants dominance is that the Tigers got their act together very well since 2017 against all expectations and people are putting this down to their MCG tenancy. They have been the strongest team in the last 3 years by any fair measure and there is nothing remarkable about the strongest team in the competition winning 2 Grand Finals in 3 seasons and a minor Premiership in the other season. It is just that it is Richmond that has done it that people are finding tough to grasp, that is how it seems to me.

Without even looking we can guess you're a Tigers fan, because you can tell by the chip on the shoulder that these complaints have come up because of the Tigers winning two flags.

Here's something for you, it came up when MCG tenant Hawthorn were winning three in a row.

They have been the strongest team in the last 3 years by any fair measure

Well there's this thing that measures how well a team has gone against all of their opposition. Its called the ladder, it orders teams by the number of times they've defeated their opponents. The Tigers have finished on top of it once in the last three years.

 

[eastfreo75]

teams as well. Teams like the Saints and Bulldogs alwa

I think it stands to reason any team with a home ground where other teams seldom play(say an average of once per year or less) is going to establish a good home advantage. Especially where there are no finals played at the venue, so teams do not have to master the venue for that reason. This is possibly borne out in the Hawks winning percentage of 77% at York Park. Their winning percentage at the MCG over that period is around 65%. When you look at the array of opponents the Hawks played against at York Park in that period 2007- it is difficult to know whether they might not have recorded a similar winning % against them at the MCG. There is only one game of the 64 they have played at York Park that was opposed to an MCG tenant.

Educated guess, I would say so far the Hawks get a discernible but negligible advantage in terms of wins from playing home games in Tasmania.

Melbourne to Darwin is approx 3100km by air.

Eagles coming to Melbourne to play the Dees see them with a travel disadvantage of -2700km.

Eagles going to Darwin to play the Dees results in a travel advantage of +400km.

Yet WC numbskulls sook about ‘travelling’ to the NT!?

It isn’t a travel disadvantage at all.

And avoiding playing a team at their home ground is also obviously a further distinct advantage enjoyed during H&A season by the non-vic clubs.

The long term stats relating to H&A finishing positions reflect the advantage given to teams with an actual home ground advantage...ie those outside of Melbourne.

Pretty simple concept, when you rationalise grounds in one city only, and remove those clubs from having a home ground advantage, it benefits the teams who retain their own home ground advantage but now no longer actually face the equivalent away disadvantage!

Eagles are robbed from an opportunity to play at G where the grand final is played.

Not sure you get that.

Plus, while it’s extra kms. The flights between Alice or Darwin are less than to Melbourne. More flexibility on time flights and therefore better options for recovery.

 

[eastfreo75]

I think it stands to reason any team with a home ground where other teams seldom play(say an average of once per year or less) is going to establish a good home advantage. Especially where there are no finals played at the venue, so teams do not have to master the venue for that reason. This is possibly borne out in the Hawks winning percentage of 77% at York Park. Their winning percentage at the MCG over that period is around 65%. When you look at the array of opponents the Hawks played against at York Park in that period 2007- it is difficult to know whether they might not have recorded a similar winning % against them at the MCG. There is only one game of the 64 they have played at York Park that was opposed to an MCG tenant.

Educated guess, I would say so far the Hawks get a discernible but negligible advantage in terms of wins from playing home games in Tasmania.

What I hate is the Dockers having to get two flights to get to Tassie and being robbed an opportunity to play at the G.

One year, our first game at the G was a final.

If Victorian want to sell home games it should be against other Victorian teams.

 

[eastfreo75]

Has this been confirmed or just WA people jumping the gun to complain again?

VFL has a record of doing such things.

I bet you $100 they won’t stop Victorian teams from using their own facilities.

 

[blue harvest]

So agreed then , it would be much more difficult for a team doing it every second week?

We were talking about 2015 when we travelled the same number of times as the Eagles and yet people put a travel asterisk on our flag.

It would be more difficult, but as discussed voluminously in this and other threads, is somewhat offset by other factors and appears to not be a disadvantage.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Without even looking we can guess you're a Tigers fan, because you can tell by the chip on the shoulder that these complaints have come up because of the Tigers winning two flags.

Here's something for you, it came up when MCG tenant Hawthorn were winning three in a row.


Well there's this thing that measures how well a team has gone against all of their opposition. Its called the ladder, it orders teams by the number of times they've defeated their opponents. The Tigers have finished on top of it once in the last three years.

Jesus, help me out here bh90210fan. How can I possibly address the conversation sensibly when I have to deal with this level of shyte.

So, Duckimus Prime, what you seem to be saying is you have been whingeing for England long before the Tigers became dominant. Ok, fair play.

Regarding the bit I have bolded, errrrr....ok, so there is obviously a team that has performed better overall during the last 3 seasons because a team who has won one minor premiership cannot possibly have been the best performed team. I get it, now just tell me who the better performed team/teams are? Especially the ones who have won more minor premierships....

 

[eastfreo75]

The discussion was about the effect of travel and how some teams do more. Doesn't matter whether it was a home or away game, travel is travel.
We went interstate the same number of times as the Eagles that year and one more than Freo.

How far is Melbourne to Tassie?

And it increases the travel for the other team.

Perth teams don’t have a direct flight.

 

[blue harvest]

What I hate is the Dockers having to get two flights to get to Tassie and being robbed an opportunity to play at the G.

One year, our first game at the G was a final.

If Victorian want to sell home games it should be against other Victorian teams.

Do you really believe you have to catch 2 flights to get to Tassie?

 

[blue harvest]

How far is Melbourne to Tassie?

And it increases the travel for the other team.

Perth teams don’t have a direct flight.

See previous posts where this was discussed.
Perth teams have a direct flight, therefore it doesn't increase the travel burden, Hawks are the one with the extra burden in these games.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

How far is Melbourne to Tassie?

And it increases the travel for the other team.

Perth teams don’t have a direct flight.

Depends which way you go.

 

[eastfreo75]

Do you really believe you have to catch 2 flights to get to Tassie?

To Hobart it’s one flight but the Hawks don’t play in Hobart.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What I hate is the Dockers having to get two flights to get to Tassie and being robbed an opportunity to play at the G.

One year, our first game at the G was a final.

If Victorian want to sell home games it should be against other Victorian teams.

I think you have a fair point here. I will bring it up at the next home game selling meeting - the MCG tenants version. Pretty sure if Freo stump up the shortfall plus a bit extra to make it worth their while, then we should just about get them across the line.

F8cking Freeloadermantle. If you want to play at the boutique ground next to the epicentre of world sport at The Swinburne, then how about pay your way by bringing 35k fans with you. Otherwise show up in a Grand Final some time and we will make up your shortfall.

 

[blue harvest]

To Hobart it’s one flight but the Hawks don’t play in Hobart.

Freo and Eagles have been getting direct flights to Launceston for 15 years. It's part of the deal with Virgin and Qantas before that.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Serious question - which years do WA supporters believe they were robbed of a flag because they had to play at the MCG against an MCG tenant?

 

[benji21]

MCG tenants make up 33% of the competition. So you expect one and sometimes two make the top four in a fair system. Your statement that they only need to be the best Victorian side to get a top 4 position....isn't saying much is it? Victorian teams make up half the competition and so in a fair system you expect the best two Vic teams to finish top four on average. We could equally of course say you only have to be in the best 2 interstate teams to make the top four most seasons.

That's fair,
However.

Interstate teams have to win away to make top 4 compared to mcg tenants who don't really need to.

Also an mcg tenant doesn't need multiple game plans for multiple grounds. If they are the best in the mcg they auld make top 4 and they should win the GF. Can't say the same for Adelaide oval etc.

Obviously as said before Optus is a bit of a game changer for WA teams.

 

[RookiePick]

Serious question - which years do WA supporters believe they were robbed of a flag because they had to play at the MCG against an MCG tenant?

2015, 2013 and 1991.

Waverley tenant at Waverley but let's not let facts cloud a good shitfight

 

[Meteoric Rise]

That's fair,
However.

Interstate teams have to win away to make top 4 compared to mcg tenants who don't really need to.

Also an mcg tenant doesn't need multiple game plans for multiple grounds. If they are the best in the mcg they auld make top 4 and they should win the GF. Can't say the same for Adelaide oval etc.

Obviously as said before Optus is a bit of a game changer for WA teams.

Freo and Eagles play 12 per season at their home ground. Full MCG tenants probably play about 13 on average. But even if this was significant, 13 is not enough wins to make top 4 in any year I can recall. And the more you focus one one venue, the more difficult you will find it elsewhere, doesn't that follow?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

2015, 2013 and 1991.

Waverley tenant at Waverley but let's not let facts cloud a good shitfight

Always knew Hawks were imposters.

 

[benji21]

Free and Eagles play 12 per season at their home ground. Full MCG tenants probably play about 13 on average. But even if this was significant, 13 is not enough wins to make top 4 in any year I can recall. And the more you focus one one venue, the more difficult you will find it elsewhere, doesn't that follow?

Last year Richmond were 13, pies 14.
15 wins required to make top 4

Edited: had finals in there

 

[doppleganger]

Eagles are robbed from an opportunity to play at G where the grand final is played.

Not sure you get that.

I get that is the gripe.

But I am also aware that whether you play a random game at the G in June against Melbourne in front of 20k doesn’t help prepare for a GF.

And again it isn’t a non-vic problem, as a Melbourne club like North plays less games at the G than non-vic contenders.

Plus, while it’s extra kms. The flights between Alice or Darwin are less than to Melbourne. More flexibility on time flights and therefore better options for recovery.

The AFL partner Virgin scheduled special direct flights to Tassie that were done in consultation with the club, so again better than being lumped on standard routes when coming to Melbourne.

What Eagle fans clearly don’t get is that the HA season determines the HA ladder, and the HA ladder then sets up the easiest path to a GF.

If they are not playing actual away games, it gives them an advantage and a greater propensity to actually finish higher on the ladder. The stats back that up.

And when a non-vic side finishes higher on the ladder they get an arm chair ride through to the GF (two finals both with HGA) compared with vic teams who aren’t guaranteed a game at their home ground, and are more likely to face a neutral final.

In 2015 the Eagles played ‘away’ games against MCG tenants Collingwood at Etihad, and Melbourne in Darwin.

The Eagles hadn’t beaten the Pies at the G since 2002, play that game at the G and the Pies win. Eagles fans would have been happy as it gave them the ‘opportunity of a game at the G’.

But lose that game, and all of a sudden Eagles finish HA 4th and the entire clap-trap argument of them deserving to host the GF is redundant.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Last year Richmond were 14, pies 16.
15 wins required to make top 4

Last year Richmond played 13 H&A games at the G, one more than WCE and Freo played at Optus.

 

[Sterge]

Here's something for you, it came up when MCG tenant Hawthorn were winning three in a row.

Well there's this thing that measures how well a team has gone against all of their opposition. Its called the ladder, it orders teams by the number of times they've defeated their opponents. The Tigers have finished on top of it once in the last three years.

Hey just to humour me go look up how many times the Hawks finished on top during the threepeat.

It's ok i'll wait

 

[Spanish_Fly]

2015, 2013 and 1991.

Waverley tenant at Waverley but let's not let facts cloud a good shitfight

OK we give in you can have those flags. So the Hawks are reduced to a 1 peat, I like it.

 

[benji21]

Last year Richmond played 13 H&A games at the G, one more than WCE and Freo played at Optus.

Yep edited cheers,

So one more game at home ground. 2 extra for pies. H&A wins last year wc 15, pies 15, tigers 16.