Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[Blue1980]

Contested footy and defense. Rather than tweaking the Teague run and gun style, it was disassembled and started again from scratch. Reactive decisions abound at Carlton. You watch the next coach rip the defensive mechanisms to pieces and open up the flood gates again with a run and gun game plan.

Bizarre thing is it was disassembled middle of last season, seemingly because we lost to collingwood by 4 points and Weiters was injured.

We now resemble 2019 Bolton era

 

[Blue1980]

A coach or senior assistant who comes up with a game plan that plays to our strengths, yes we actually do have some.

• key forwards
• inside mids
• key defenders
• half back flankers

What do we lack? Elite users of the footy. Outside class. Small forwards. 3rd tall forward capable of either 20 touches a game or 20 goals a season.

Build a gameplan around what we can do. Not stopping what we can't. Or in this crops case doing something we can't!

Bingo, our whole plan is about minimising our weaknesses, which has also nullified our strengths.

This was beyond obvious a month ago, yet still Voss persists

 

[Schoonerman]

Pyke:

View attachment 1705934

Voss:

View attachment 1705935

When was the camp ?

 

[The Flying Doormat]

From an outsider’s vantage point, it looks like the tail is wagging the dog (again) at Carlton.

After eight(?) coaches over the past 20 years or so, surely Carlton most needs stability, not more upheaval. Another coach is no certainty to fix things, or even improve them.

You need a circuit-breaker. If I was in your Board’s position, I would sign Voss to a three-year extension right now, then call all the players together and tell them bluntly that he’ll be coaching for the next 4+ years and they all need to accept it, shut up and get on with fully supporting Voss’s program. Any player who doesn’t want to do that gets traded. No exceptions.

It’s time to stop the merry-go-round. Geez even I (as a Pies supporter) don’t want to see the continuation of Carlton’s Premiership irrelevance. It’s bad for footy.


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Lol. Sign up Voss for another three years? Come on, I know there's a magnificent rivalry between us but how long do you want us to suffer?

 

[Schoonerman]

Pyke

Voss:

View attachment 1705935

OK so camp was preseason 2018 so explains the nosedive in performances

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

When was the camp ?

2018 pre season

 

[Brackets]

I think Voss is a leader of men and a senior coach doesn't have to do the teaching. He needs to manage the men under him who are doing the teaching. He does however have to listen to those men and implement a game plan that suits the team, and only add layers as his personnel changes to suit those layers.

The issue is does anyone under him actually have any ideas.

The guy leading our midfield previously held this exact role during a period of performances that culminated in the head coach being sacked.

He left the club, spent 3 years as GCS forward coach in which they were last for points scored for two of those seasons.

This extra experience somehow convinced us he was the man to again lead our midfield, and shock horror it's again ineffective.

 

[Doro]

Bizarre thing is it was disassembled middle of last season, seemingly because we lost to collingwood by 4 points and Weiters was injured.

We now resemble 2019 Bolton era

I think we just got worked out half way through last year, our attack/defense balance was still OK come the end of last year. It was the entire pre season of slow ball movement which has destroyed our attacking instinct. Probably needs someone else to fix it again.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

An owner of a bar in Bali ...

You can get chemicals pumped into your lips and get a boob job at that bar as well.
It's the cultural centre of Straya

 

[ctwenty1]

To break out of this cycle, focus needs to be on your first dot point….

Appoint a good coach.

This is where we’ve been failing for quite some time. We should never have sacked ratts.

gee i wish we would break out of this messiah complex.

The playing team needs to own this recent performance. Showing clearly how unprofessional they are.

 

[Bluebager]

Extend Voss. Cull the playing list. Thats the real problem.

is that you Michael?

 

[Bluebager]

From an outsider’s vantage point, it looks like the tail is wagging the dog (again) at Carlton.

After eight(?) coaches over the past 20 years or so, surely Carlton most needs stability, not more upheaval. Another coach is no certainty to fix things, or even improve them.

You need a circuit-breaker. If I was in your Board’s position, I would sign Voss to a three-year extension right now, then call all the players together and tell them bluntly that he’ll be coaching for the next 4+ years and they all need to accept it, shut up and get on with fully supporting Voss’s program. Any player who doesn’t want to do that gets traded. No exceptions.

It’s time to stop the merry-go-round. Geez even I (as a Pies supporter) don’t want to see the continuation of Carlton’s Premiership irrelevance. It’s bad for footy.


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Its a Big No from Me!!

 

[LuckyLee]

And if 40+ players put there hands up.. how do you trade them all? There are some on our board who agree with you and want to keep him. It’s the noble and virtuous thing to do right. But just because you’ve made the wrong appointment many times before.. why would you double down and stubbornly sign on the wrong guy for another 3 years. That’s the definition of madness. Remember, this guy also failed at Brisbane and is tracking the same here.

We’ll be relevant again when we have a good coach with tactical nous. We’ll be relevant again when all our off-field stuff finally prioritises being a club that strives for greatness. Being a club that recognises it’s history and what that monogram represents. When we start to be less about money and more about being a club. When we stop treating the fans like idiots and posting player highlights immediately after a bad loss. That’s when all factions within the club will align and as you put it ‘the tail will stop wagging the dog’. But right now, I don’t blame the tail wagging when it’s a hard game plan to get behind. We need change, that much has become obvious.

Well, if that’s how it is and Voss is the umpteenth bad coaching appointment in the past 20 years then IMO the Board really needs to be purged because they have lead the Club into this mess, without learning from previous failed appointments.

What coach of high standing would want the job after such a history of sackings? You’d have to pay massive overs for a top-tier coach to be willing to risk the uncertainty and potential for reputation damage if it again goes sour.


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[Sinjin Smith]

I desperately want Voss to work and I hate to think we need to sack yet another coach. Every week I have a small glimmer of hope that this weekends game that something will change and the players will "click". I expected a strong response and a win against St Kilda, I expected a win against the Doggies and whilst the losses to the Pies and Brisbane were 4 odd goals, it felt like both of them were in cruise control and woud have put us away if we mounted any sort of coherent gameplan (I mean Sidebottom was laughing at us during that game, I was there).

There was a part of me that expected a win against Melbourne. Every week we hear the same rhetoric from Voss, every week we struggle to muster ten goals and have so far had 26 quarters (yes 26) of two goals or less. This is a team with two giant Coleman medallists who can take a contested mark, a bull of a Brownlow winning midfielder surrounded by able allies (Kennedy, Cerra, Walsh, Hewett), multiple All Australians and a supposed gun of a full back with a littering of high draft picks (which we have not developed).

I just cant see it, not anymore. That small glimmer of hope is gone for me, it left at half time last Friday night when I switched off at half time as we had two goals in a half of footy against a pretty substandard Melbourne outfit. It's not all on Voss, I dont rate the assistants and there is a very large portion of blame to lay at the players feet. Their skills are downright atrocious, Voss cant kick it for them though I really do wonder what they do in training, I suspect training is all about gameplan simulations (that don't seem to be sinking in) and none on skill deficiencies.

I don't think Voss can turn this around, none of what he speaks in the media gives me any hope he can and the players body language on the field reflects this. I'd rather we pull the pin and get Pyke onboard and let him choose his own assistants, if it means paying to soft cap tax so be it, Matheson can be useful for once and foot the bill.

 

[LuckyLee]

No but doing the second option means another rebuild and setting us back another 3-5 years - that's an awful lot of pressure to put on Voss in the hope that it works. Nothing we've seen yet indicates it would be successful either.

This is the reason why coaches are fired in every sport across the globe - far easier to fire 1 person rather than having to reset half a team.

Yes, I can see your point - if not for the fact that you’ve already sacked eight or so coaches in the past two decades for no result.

So maybe the reset option with a long-term commitment to Voss is the way to go this time? Hardwick was pretty close to being sacked before it all suddenly clicked for him and the team at Richmond. Perhaps it can work similarly for Voss if he’s given longer-term job security?


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[LuckyLee]

But what if Voss' program isn't any good?

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[jd2010]

The part I laugh and cry at is that one of our board members is the head of the recruitment company we use to find our constant head coach appointments.

 

[Its an amigo!]

From an outsider’s vantage point, it looks like the tail is wagging the dog (again) at Carlton.

After eight(?) coaches over the past 20 years or so, surely Carlton most needs stability, not more upheaval. Another coach is no certainty to fix things, or even improve them.

You need a circuit-breaker. If I was in your Board’s position, I would sign Voss to a three-year extension right now, then call all the players together and tell them bluntly that he’ll be coaching for the next 4+ years and they all need to accept it, shut up and get on with fully supporting Voss’s program. Any player who doesn’t want to do that gets traded. No exceptions.

It’s time to stop the merry-go-round. Geez even I (as a Pies supporter) don’t want to see the continuation of Carlton’s Premiership irrelevance. It’s bad for footy.


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What has Voss shown, in either his tenure at Brisbane or his time at Carlton, that shows he can actually coach? What coaching achievements has he accomplished? The only coaching success that Voss has had (other than his very first year at Brisbane) has been in an assistant coaching role at Port - who are now flying despite no longer having him. I have no doubt Voss is a great guy and was an outstanding player. One of the greats of the game. But he has shown at two teams now he has no acumen as a coach!

Your own team passed on him, rumors are he didn't even make it to the final round of interviews.

This was a terrible hire from our board the get go. They need to be held accountable for this hire.

I agree that we need to back in a coach at some point, however, we haven't seen anything from Voss in almost 7 years of coaching to suggest that he is the guy to back in. Why wasn't Teague given that same consideration? Or Bolton?

The game style we are playing is just atrocious! Reminds me of the old Malthouse days, and Malthouse set us back 5 years. I honestly miss Teague at this point!

 

[thebluenewdeal]

The part I laugh and cry at is that one of our board members is the head of the recruitment company we use to find our constant head coach appointments.

Which one?

 

[jd2010]

Which one?

Egon Zehnder and David Campbell

 

[thebluenewdeal]

Egon Zehnder and David Campbell

Interesting

 

[marcmurphy3]

Alarm bells for me with Voss, was post his Brisbane sacking, he went to Port Adelaide under Hinkley.

In terms of his development, he had only heard 1 voice for 10yrs. He should have been moving around from system to system to develop greater knowledge if he aspired to be senior coach again.

It woud be nice to know what Voss presented to the selection committee that made them decide ok, Voss is the man.

Was it a gameplan? A method of play?
Would have thought he would have demanded to bring support staff as well.... should have learnt as much...

Collingwood didnt like what he was selling, and thus didnt make 2nd round of their process, so what was it for us?

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It's interesting looking back to note that the only football people on that selection panel were Williams and Parkin. Neither had coached or played football in the last 20 years.

Makes you wonder how rigorously we would have been able to assess candidates thoughts on gameplan and tactical nous ect.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

We've had Green Shoots

We've had the Teague Train

Now we have Nourishment



Maybe when we do interviews for our next coach we just ask them what their catch phrase is then get the members to vote what they like most?

 

[jd2010]

Interesting

If the President sat on the board of a failing club for 9 years and got a promotion, who are we to judge this guys recruitment agency making money off us every 2 years!

 

[Blue1980]

Yes, I can see your point - if not for the fact that you’ve already sacked eight or so coaches in the past two decades for no result.

So maybe the reset option with a long-term commitment to Voss is the way to go this time? Hardwick was pretty close to being sacked before it all suddenly clicked for him and the team at Richmond. Perhaps it can work similarly for Voss if he’s given longer-term job security?


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Why do people keep bringing up Hardwick? This isn’t a comparable situation. This is more comparable to Mark Neeld or David Noble.