Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[katmanblue]

We were number #1 in the AFL for the stat for the vast majority of the season but dropped off badly in the last two months.

Average tackles inside forward 50
OR to Round 16 - 13.93 per game (Team record: 11W 4L)
Round 17 to EF - 8.56 per game (Team record: 2W 7L)
Overall average: 11.9 per game (#3 in AFL)

For reference Port finished the season #1 in this stat with an average of 13.1 per game and North finished 18th with an average of 8.4 per game.

When did Fog get injured?

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[Arr0w]

When did Fog get injured?

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Haven't checked, but suspect he would average more I50 tackles than any other forward on our list

 

[carlton_99]

Do you have link to the raw data?

I just went through each game in the AFL app and calculated it:

Raw tackles i50 numbers
OR (15), RD1 (14), RD2 (BYE), RD3 (19), RD4 (24), RD5 (11), RD6 (9), RD7 (24), RD8 (9), RD9 (9), RD10 (7),
RD11 (9), RD12 (16), RD13 (7), RD14 (BYE), RD15 (22), RD16 (14), RD17 (4), RD18 (5), RD19 (9), RD20 (7),
RD21 (7), RD22 (2), RD23 (20), RD24 (15) and EF (8)

*Games we won highlighted in green and games we lost highlighted in red

Just some added stats:
Average tackles inside 50 in WINS: 14.38
Average tackles inside 50 in LOSSES: 9.00

 

[carlton_99]

Haven't checked, but suspect he would average more I50 tackles than any other forward on our list

Yep correct

Source: https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats.html?year=2024

 

[carlton_99]

When did Fog get injured?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Fogarty missed Round 5 to Round 10 and then got injured again early in Round 22 and was out for the rest of the season

 

[gbatman]

Voss is a very much no BS coach, driving effort and high standards. Which makes him the right coach. As a pure coach, he's not great. The ideas coming out of our coaching group are rubbish. Some of the moves and team selection over the last few seasons are rubbish. Kennedy and Cerra playing half back over guys like Hollands. Dropping Fisher, Dow, Cuningham and Owies for finals last year removing our best defensive half forward, one of our better goal kickers and much needed leg speed off half back and centre for slow slow slow. The selection debacle in the final in Brisbane wreaked of cluelessness. Dropped well performing youth for underdone players who didn't deliver.

This to me comes down to either the assistant coaches are rubbish or the senior coach is not listening to them. At least one of these things has to be true and needs to change.

The direction from coaching to list management is also a worry of mine. The midfield has been an issue for 3 years and Lord is the only new addition over that period. This could all change soon but the coaches had to know that the onball group we had were not up to it in the modern game.

Remembering where we have come from the last 25 years. Ill disciplined and soft. A playing list who couldn't win games, lacked professionalism and caused constant trouble off the field. A list of weak minded individuals who were used to controlling the coach and sooked it up when Malthouse came and couldn't handle him despite him never being an issue at his previous clubs where he won premierships. Talented but conditional teams who regularly let their coach down and got coach after coach sacked.

We aren't that anymore and we can thank Voss for that.

But we don't have the polish. We don't have the ideas and great decision making to polish us up. I think we can get that with Voss at the helm. The question is how?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I want our small forwards to practise dropping the knees and raising their arm to draw high frees more regularly.

Want our big boys to stick a knee into whoever is in front of them.

Sick of playing "the right way" and constantly getting upstaged by those that don't.

We have to make up that difference before getting to a level playing field.



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Before we introduce gamesmanship to our small forwards can we just go back to basics and teach them how to pick up a ball off the ground..... Please....

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

We aren't that anymore and we can thank Voss for that.

But we don't have the polish. We don't have the ideas and great decision making to polish us up. I think we can get that with Voss at the helm. The question is how?

All comes down to how much of a micromanager Voss is. All coaches are by nature but if he can trust as well as micromanage and have more shared input then definitely Carltpn can play a modern and more cohesive style. If he can't put aside the full blown micromanaging even a little then it'll remain the same next season.

 

[Arr0w]

While having different characteristics, methodologies, I believe coaches fall under the same narrow bracket of quality, especially given how vital assistants are within the modern game

Speaking to a multiple premiership coach, he stated that priorities have changed dramatically

• Quality of list/continuity
• HP, fitness
• Development
• Coaching

Next year will be interesting, new HP guy and we have started moving on injury prone players

Development is difficult to determine, but Power is highly regarded

So, it will be interesting how Voss and co, develop the gameplan

 

[El Topo]

Did I say it was just chaos?

The surge game style was the primary driver of their success. Along with manufacturing a spare behind the ball at all times, high speed half forwards that would stream up to the contest then race ahead in offence, Dustin Martin as the primary fwd target that would win or halve every contest, and locking the ball in with repeat entries using a high press.

The point being that their leaders were at the cutting edge of modern football. They drafted and recruited for a game plan that changed the way afl is played.

Do you have confidence Voss and his brains trust will be able to pull something like that off?

From my viewing, Voss is married to a hybrid game style consisting of combative contested ball dominance and ‘keeping’s off’ uncontested marking when we tire. The latter is extremely easy to nullify whilst contested ball/clearance dominance is dependent on fit, star players that will inevitably break down. In turn, there becomes a reliance on senior players at the cost youth development.

Pray tell, enlighten us to why you believe Michael Voss and his band of merry men have what it takes to build a dynasty.

Tigers were a languishing kick-mark side that stumbled on a different approach in 2017 and were smart enough to run with it. Recall the admission in 2016 that they were only recruiting to make the 8, there was never some grand dynastic plan.

Voss on the other hand is rigid and reverts to Plan A whenever the right names are available - we're not nearly as far away as the back half of this year would have us believe.

 

[Arr0w]

Tigers were a languishing kick-mark side that stumbled on a different approach in 2017 and were smart enough to run with it. Recall the admission in 2016 that they were only recruiting to make the 8, there was never some grand dynastic plan.

Voss on the other hand is rigid and reverts to Plan A whenever the right names are available - we're not nearly as far away as the back half of this year would have us believe.

Chris Scott also changed his gameplan. Cats style was very much a possession style, did very well transforming the way they played

 

[gbatman]

All comes down to how much of a micromanager Voss is. All coaches are by nature but if he can trust as well as micromanage and have more shared input then definitely Carltpn can play a modern and more cohesive style. If he can't put aside the full blown micromanaging even a little then it'll remain the same next season.

It's also about where his trust is in his assistant.

I look at them and their history doesn't excite me. They mostly seem to be from failed clubs.

Clarkson when he was coaching Hawthorn and winning flags, it was well known he was the manager and enforcer but he left a lot up to his assistants.

That will work only if your assistants are good and he had a dream team of coaches under him through his time at Hawthorn.

I don't think we have done well enough assembling a coaching team. If we did I think list management would have been directed well enough where we would have already targeted players with traits we need and we would be ahead.

We just have seemed to be behind the better teams for so long now. Other sides are going to a quicker lineup and quicker game style, we have been slow to move on that.

Our tactics around the ground look a little off at times.

Our selections have been garbage for years.

Voss either needs to let go more or he needs to go and demand we get some new assistants in. Cook and Loyd need to know which is it.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Tigers were a languishing kick-mark side that stumbled on a different approach in 2017 and were smart enough to run with it. Recall the admission in 2016 that they were only recruiting to make the 8, there was never some grand dynastic plan.

Voss on the other hand is rigid and reverts to Plan A whenever the right names are available - we're not nearly as far away as the back half of this year would have us believe.

The president literally put a grand dynasty plan in place publicly. You don’t stumble on something that works and end up with 3 premierships.

 

[El Topo]

The president literally put a grand dynasty plan in place publicly. You don’t stumble on something that works and end up with 3 premierships.

That's a version of history that makes sense if you skip everything that actually happened between 2009 and 2017 - not much use for our purposes.

 

[LanceRomance]

I thought we should have got Kingsley instead of Voss?

Roflcopter

 

[Blue_Fusion]

When did Fog get injured?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

He broke his wrist v Freo with that attempted spoil on Fyfe... that would have been rnd 4 I think... then he came back v Suns iinm would have been round 11.

Then I'm pretty sure he remained in the team until he got injured against the Hawks.

 

[katmanblue]

He broke his wrist v Freo with that attempted spoil on Fyfe... that would have been rnd 4 I think... then he came back v Suns iinm would have been round 11.

Then I'm pretty sure he remained in the team until he got injured against the Hawks.

I'd suggest he was hampered when he did play. Might have had an effect on those f50 tackle numbers.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JustaBattler]

Did I say it was just chaos?

The surge game style was the primary driver of their success. Along with manufacturing a spare behind the ball at all times, high speed half forwards that would stream up to the contest then race ahead in offence, Dustin Martin as the primary fwd target that would win or halve every contest, and locking the ball in with repeat entries using a high press.

The point being that their leaders were at the cutting edge of modern football. They drafted and recruited for a game plan that changed the way afl is played.

Do you have confidence Voss and his brains trust will be able to pull something like that off?

From my viewing, Voss is married to a hybrid game style consisting of combative contested ball dominance and ‘keeping’s off’ uncontested marking when we tire. The latter is extremely easy to nullify whilst contested ball/clearance dominance is dependent on fit, star players that will inevitably break down. In turn, there becomes a reliance on senior players at the cost youth development.

Pray tell, enlighten us to why you believe Michael Voss and his band of merry men have what it takes to build a dynasty.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I'm so over Voss that Ken Hinkley is starting took like a good option.

 

[Zlatan]

Won’t be sacked, but I wouldn’t be against it if he was

 

[bigm386]

We made a huge mistake going Voss over Kingsley and to be honest it was obvious at the time.

We wanted an experienced coach which is actually a failed coach and it's clear why now.

We should go for the best availible and credentialed assistant coach. Simple as that.

 

[Skull Face]

I'm so over Voss that Ken Hinkley is starting took like a good option.

Hanging on by a thread at best after that, couldn't get them up to play round 1 it's time to make changes everywhere.

 

[bradfisher14]

Graham Wright

Please fix this mess

 

[Jatz]

He’s in big trouble.

We finished last season horrendously. He had 6 months to rectify that and we’ve come out even worse.

That’s as bad a sign as any that he’s out of his depth here.

My real concern is that it’s round 1 and we’ve aligned ourselves to a game plan/system that clearly isn’t good enough.

 

[Blue4Life]

can’t see why we wouldn’t sack Voss…can’t go backwards…we overachieved based on talent (in 23) but our style of play/gameplan is putrid and will never get us top 4