Soccer World Cup wants AFL to shut down for 8 weeks (Part II)

[AngelEyes]

They will jut have to buy the AFL, NRL and Telstra Dome out.

We get some very light comments from Geelong last week suggesting they think funding will be given for their next Stadium upgrade in Feb. Then the Herald Sun said on Sunday that Geelong wants $75million for Stage 3. This will all be part of the "compensation" deal the AFL recieves. The Government will pay for Skilled Stadium and future upgrades to make it capable of holding a reasonable crowd (ie. 40-50k). I have no doubt that this will happen as part of the "compensation". I suspect there will be some form of funding too that will compensate teams a couple of hundred thousand a game to go to Geelong.

The Telstra Dome is a business and for it to be out of action for say 8-10 weeks and miss possibly 16-20 AFL matches is a serious amount of money. I said 10 weeks as it won't be usable the day the world cup ends with the wear, tear of the Soccer configuration. The Government will need to adequately compensate the Dome. Forcing them is stupid and will just end up in court. The Government would rather just "compensate" them.

The AFL will get angry to get more compensation but I suspect the FFA and the Government are playing dodgey with the not telling the AFL that the MCG will be out of action for a year. The AFL will win but I just think that it will be in the form or dollars or upgrades to facilities etc.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Not too sure if this has been mentioned previously, but we "lost" the MCG to an entire cricket season in 2005/2006 except the boxing day test, and then the first 4 weeks of the AFL season due to the redevelopment of the MCG for the running track for the Comm Games.

That was for a 2 week event that no other country wanted.

Cricket isn't as dependent on the MCG as the AFL.

 

[damochandler]

it does sound very extreme.. i still dont think we will get the world cup any way. if this does happen. they can always take the games to country. they have plenty of time to get the grounds built up to afl standard

 

[AngelEyes]

it does sound very extreme.. i still dont think we will get the world cup any way. if this does happen. they can always take the games to country. they have plenty of time to get the grounds built up to afl standard

I suspect its the money side just as much. Would you want ANZAC day played at Casterton in front of 350 people money wise?

 

[harmesy 37]

Maybe the state labor govt which has a long history dating back to Cain in the 1980's of obstructing the growth of the AFL can play their part here again.
They funded the new soccer/rugby stadium with our money, so why can't they also fund the redevelopment of the MCG with our money too.


Apparently it will only cost about 120 million to reconfigure the mcg for soccer seating, chicken feed compared to the 400 million they have already put in to fund the soccer/rugby stadium.


Cain back in the 80's blocked the AFL's attempt to play matches on Sunday, he blocked their attempt with legislation of playing finals at Waverley...let the labor tradition continue.

 

[Doctorb]

Demetriou's first argument this morning on 3AW was that you can't move the footy to January because it's out of the ratings period.

One senses he's not helping his cause with there.

If you heard that bit of the argument, then you probably heard the others bits as well: Like the one about the Cricket season where I'm sure there are several contracts in place and the climate during that time of the year not being appropriate for a game where players face a significantly larger risk of heatstroke?

Not too sure if this has been mentioned previously, but we "lost" the MCG to an entire cricket season in 2005/2006 except the boxing day test, and then the first 4 weeks of the AFL season due to the redevelopment of the MCG for the running track for the Comm Games.

That was for a 2 week event that no other country wanted.

Are you seriously comparing the move of three or four ODIs over a three week period (remember that the Boxing Day test WAS played at the MCG) to potentially losing somewhere in the range of 32-40 AFL matches over the course of 16 weeks?

What a ridiculous argument.

 

[AJ_2000]

Cricket isn't as dependent on the MCG as the AFL.

Perhaps not to the same extent. But the unavailablity of the ground meant that all domestic one day and shield games needed to be played at an alternate venue. The ODI matches were moved to the Docklands. How much were CA or the VCA compensated for this? $0 I'm tipping.

The AFL will find away to go about its business. If the MCG burnt down tomorrow would they be talking about cancelling the 2010 season? No they would go about business and shuffle the deck chairs. The same should apply here.

 

[Bouvet_Island]

The AFL will find away to go about its business. If the MCG burnt down tomorrow would they be talking about cancelling the 2010 season? No they would go about business and shuffle the deck chairs. The same should apply here.

Well said.

 

[AJ_2000]

Are you seriously comparing the move of three or four ODIs over a three week period (remember that the Boxing Day test WAS played at the MCG) to potentially losing somewhere in the range of 32-40 AFL matches over the course of 16 weeks?

What a ridiculous argument.[/quote]

I did actually mention the the Boxing Day test was played during that period.

Its not about making a direct comparison to the amount of games or revenue that could be made or lost, more highlighting that the MCG has hosted other events and has been flexible in the past to accomidate them.

The AFL moved its season forward in 2000 to fit in the Olympics.

My view is that this should be no different.

 

[jihg]

Perhaps not to the same extent. But the unavailablity of the ground meant that all domestic one day and shield games needed to be played at an alternate venue. The ODI matches were moved to the Docklands. How much were CA or the VCA compensated for this? $0 I'm tipping.

The AFL will find away to go about its business. If the MCG burnt down tomorrow would they be talking about cancelling the 2010 season? No they would go about business and shuffle the deck chairs. The same should apply here.

The MCG hasn't burnt down though the AFL are being forced out despite them having contracts in place with the venue. The AFL are saying they are willing to work towards a successful bid but that the gaol posts keep changing and no one wants to be up front and honest about what is expected of them.

 

[Pessimistic]

Maybe the state labor govt which has a long history dating back to Cain in the 1980's of obstructing the growth of the AFL can play their part here again.
They funded the new soccer/rugby stadium with our money, so why can't they also fund the redevelopment of the MCG with our money too.


Apparently it will only cost about 120 million to reconfigure the mcg for soccer seating, chicken feed compared to the 400 million they have already put in to fund the soccer/rugby stadium.


Cain back in the 80's blocked the AFL's attempt to play matches on Sunday, he blocked their attempt with legislation of playing finals at Waverley...let the labor tradition continue.

And Kennet bending over backwards so a rival stadium to the dome be capped at less than 30,000 (the rectangular satadium)

Honestly the money spent on stadiums in thsi town has been poorly targetted. $400m for the dome (10 yrs ago) the MCG Upgrade, $400m for the rectangular stadium - a new stadium for athletics etc and now $120m for a one off at the MCG

Could have had the MCG, a 40,000+ soccer, and 2 or 3 footy grounds spaced around melbourne of varying sizes


BOTH sides of politics have been disgraceful. funny hoiw the decision makers never want for a seat at these events though

 

[AngelEyes]

I did actually mention the the Boxing Day test was played during that period.

Its not about making a direct comparison to the amount of games or revenue that could be made or lost, more highlighting that the MCG has hosted other events and has been flexible in the past to accomidate them.

The AFL moved its season forward in 2000 to fit in the Olympics.

My view is that this should be no different.

I think the AFL was prepared to do this when the MCG was out of action for 8 weeks but now they are looking at a whole season. Basically, the old saying comes true, FFA was given an inch and now its trying to take a mile.

 

[Belnakor]

With the spending on infrastructure, stadiums etc and the huge compensations that will needed to be payed to afl, nrl and rugby. I'm struggling to see where these huge economic benifits to the country are coming from. But im sure even if hosting the world cup doesnt prove to be the huge financial windfall, all the displaced bogans will still get to see the might of the footballroos in action at a home world cup

you do realise something like 100k+ people will jet into australia for the world cup if we had it here

 

[saj_21]

If you want a good laugh, good the read the readers comments on the article on the herald sun web site.

i only read 20 or so comments, but one clown in particular claiming soccer was already watched and supported (in Australia) by more than AFL/NRL combined...LOL!

For the record, i think it would be great if the Australia landed the world cup and yes it is truly the world game, but fact is AFL is number 1 in Australia. You cannot simply expect the AFL to either suspend the season or severly disrupt it.

It could go ahead if there was only 4-6 week period where the major stadiums were unable to be used, but the fact that FIFA set rules stipulating no other major compettitions be played at the same time is rediculous.

 

[AJ_2000]

I think the AFL was prepared to do this when the MCG was out of action for 8 weeks but now they are looking at a whole season. Basically, the old saying comes true, FFA was given an inch and now its trying to take a mile.

Fair point.

This is all speculation at this stage about reconfiguration of the ground etc. I was surprised when I heard the news initally, but if that can increase capacity and get the MCG to host the final then I would support it.

Worst case scenario there will be 8-12 full years to plan for an adaquate solution.

 

[Clay Davis]

you do realise something like 100k+ people will jet into australia for the world cup if we had it here

Unless they each spend $50,000 in the country then the event will lose money.

 

[bibi01]

it won't be the whole season it will be 17 weeks of the season which currently runs for 27 weeks

move the season forward by 4 weeks eliminating the (nab cup) and push the finals backs 2 weeks, remove the split round and you are left with a 10 week shortfall

 

[Doctorb]

Perhaps not to the same extent. But the unavailablity of the ground meant that all domestic one day and shield games needed to be played at an alternate venue. The ODI matches were moved to the Docklands. How much were CA or the VCA compensated for this? $0 I'm tipping.

The AFL will find away to go about its business. If the MCG burnt down tomorrow would they be talking about cancelling the 2010 season? No they would go about business and shuffle the deck chairs. The same should apply here.

I did actually mention the the Boxing Day test was played during that period.

Its not about making a direct comparison to the amount of games or revenue that could be made or lost, more highlighting that the MCG has hosted other events and has been flexible in the past to accomidate them.

The AFL moved its season forward in 2000 to fit in the Olympics.

My view is that this should be no different.

There is not a person with a brain who is going to disagree when you say that the MCG and the AFL has not been flexible when it comes to shifting around seasons for other major events: They did it in 2000 and 2006, as you mentioned.

Where the AFL may have been able to move games around more easily if only one stadium in just one city were being occupied by FIFA, as has been the case for the Commonwealth Games, it is not so simple when major stadiums in Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney and the Gold Coast are being occupied as well for that length of time for the MCG and several weeks for other cities.

Perhaps they may change around the stadia infrastructure on these cities up to the lead up - who knows? But at that point you have to ask yourself if it's worth it.

 

[Pessimistic]

We are supposed to be all excited abour soccer and a possible home world cup yet the socceroos games aren't even on FTA anymore ?

And before you get exited I'm an immigrant pom and liked soccer before I discovered something far superior.

Reading between the lines it seems the FFA is possibly going out of its way to make it as toug as possible fro footy (AFL)

Logic to me suggests if money is to be spent the melbourne rectangular stadium be upgraded to the 40,000 required. Possible world cup played there and at Etihad. MCG lft for Tooty (AFL) and large games played in sydney and queensland (soccer is sydney based - of course the final will be played at the largest rectangular ground.

MCG with temporary stands would be a dogs bekfast, and the top deck people would still be too far away - you cant build temporary stands in mid air


interesting that now we see AFL CAN be played in the same city as WC and Perth is being seen as too far away (NZ is closer) Lots of previous mischevioaus comments apper to have been just hot air

AFL gets MCG (or etihad) SCG GABBA SUBIACO Gold coast geelong and canberra darwin tassie if needed

Only argument seems to be which 1 or 2 stadiums the WC gets in melbourne. If the FFA were to be up front and say the final will be in sydent then we can all move on.

their problem seems to be they dont have a second 70,000 plus rectangular stadium. perhaps a brisbane one can be upgraded - OR come up with a second ANZ type stadium in perth

 

[Skids]

My understanding is that for 4 weeks before the WC and during there can be no competing sporting competitions in the city of a WC venue. So, the AFL can't shift from Etihad and MCG to Vic park or Princess Park. They can't play in Melbourne at all. Same with every other WC venue. Where they gonna play? Upper-come-back East? Back-o-Burke?

WC isn't worth that. I don't mind if the AFL bend a bit, but FIFA have to bend just as much.

 

[Pessimistic]

My understanding is that for 4 weeks before the WC and during there can be no competing sporting competitions in the city of a WC venue. So, the AFL can't shift from Etihad and MCG to Vic park or Princess Park. They can't play in Melbourne at all. Same with every other WC venue. Where they gonna play? Upper-come-back East? Back-o-Burke?

WC isn't worth that. I don't mind if the AFL bend a bit, but FIFA have to bend just as much.

No - INTERNATIONAL competition is not allowed. Soccer shuts down as a matter of course. They (AFL and FFA) now seem to be talking as if cohabitation in the same city is a given. AFL just need to avoid clashes as much as possible within the cities. TV is another thing altogether. a 2-3 week break for the WC semis and final would also be in order

Also the geographical area of melbourne and other cities can cover 2 or 3 in europe. That would be a point to argue
It'd be intersting to see what south africa rugby is doing during the WC finals

 

[telsor]

you do realise something like 100k+ people will jet into australia for the world cup if we had it here

Unless they each spend $50,000 in the country then the event will lose money.

Actually, because you're looking at repaying the government through taxes ( GST, company tax on profits & income tax on wages ), they probably need to spend over $100k/person.

 

[telsor]

Seems 2018 is likely to go for Europe, but we're a good shot for 2022...


Maybe the AFL should help fund the Japanese bid..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No - INTERNATIONAL competition is not allowed. Soccer shuts down as a matter of course. They (AFL and FFA) now seem to be talking as if cohabitation in the same city is a given. AFL just need to avoid clashes as much as possible within the cities. TV is another thing altogether. a 2-3 week break for the WC semis and final would also be in order

Also the geographical area of melbourne and other cities can cover 2 or 3 in europe. That would be a point to argue
It'd be intersting to see what south africa rugby is doing during the WC finals

Are you suggesting that commercial TV stations would forgo televising sports they had the right to, if the WC was on another channel???

I understand the WC will need around 12 Stadiums.

At the moment we have Ettihad, Telstra Stadium.
As I understand it the Suncorp stadium is not quite FIFA standard so lets say it costs a paltry $100 million or so. ( Pocket change when the bid costs $50m )
Another $130 million to put seats into the MCG and chuck them away later.

That leaves 8 stadiums that need to be either built or completely re-developed. Lets say $450 million each.

Thats going to be pretty close to 4 Billion just for stadiums, if the costs don't blow out.
It would want to be a pretty big boost to the economy.

I'm amazed that a decision of this size was simply granted to the FFA without much in the way of parlimentry discussion or anything.

 

[Sydneyfan]

I think the AFL can still get around this by using the following grounds just before, just after or even during the World Cup:

Etihad Stadium (assuming the MCG and Rectangular Stadium are used for the WC)
SCG and/or Showgrounds Stadium (Sydney will be using Stadium Australia and possibly Aussie Stadium for the WC)
Gabba (Suncorp will be used for WC)
Carrara (Robina Stadium will be used for WC)
AAMI Stadium (keep it for the meantime while Adelaide Oval is used for the WC)
WACA and/or Subiaco (assuming new Perth stadium is built)
Marrara (I can't foresee WC matches being held in Darwin, though I may be wrong)
Manuka (Canberra Stadium will be used for WC)
Cazaly's Stadium in Cairns (Townsville's Dairy Farmers Stadium will get the WC matches)
Bellerive (assuming York Park is used for WC)
And possibly a few matches in New Zealand and/or regional Australia.

It seems the number of stadiums won't be a huge issue, more loss of revenue for the AFL.