Review St Kilda v North Melbourne Rd 2 2018 Bad Friday

[stfan]

- Give McGovern and Sloane lots of money to get them down

Dream on. After that crap dished up by the Saints no star player will be joining us this decade!

 

[gringo2011]

Pick 12 for Tom Lee? Who??? What a spud.

Pick 13 as part of the deal for Hickey... yet we don't play him?

Picks 24-25 Nathan Wright and Spencer White who? Seems we still have Wright listed but what's the point? 5 years later if he's still no good why bother?

Pick 3 - Billings
Pick 18 - Dunstan
Pick 19 - Acres

Now we're getting somewhere. These players should be getting to their potential now. Physically they seem ok, perhaps just need to become the new core while we move out the old spuds.

Pick 1 - Paddy McCartin

Feels like Jack Watts to me. Everything about him is ok we're just gonna have to wait 4 more years until he fully matures and by that time he could be at Port Adelaide. I almost feel like it isn't even worth drafting a tall forward #1 these days. We missed out on Petracca for this and everybody saw Petracca at the time.

Pick 21 - H. Goddard

Injury woes. Hard to say a bad thing really.

Pick 22 - Daniel Mackenzie. Another list filler it seems.

Pick 41 Jack Lonie. Perhaps our best down low find in years... yet we don't select him.

Pick 5 - As part of the deal to get Carlisle. This one might still pay off. Nice goal early from 60m out and was probably the only defender that showed something against old man Waite.

Pick 18 - Gresham. Still time on his side. Perhaps just doesn't make the elite grade.

Seems like drafting has been up and down but fairly decent.

It seems to me we're paying the price for not bottoming out properly while Riewoldt and Montagna were still at the club. Only 2 top 10 picks we actually used.

One thing is for sure. Our list is a bit deeper than the 22 we sent out against North.

Boomer Harvey was interesting on radio, he said forwards in TAC and underage footy play one on one and don't get to zone. He said forwards like Mc cartin look great but there is no way of knowing how they will play in the AFL. He said it's a lottery basically and that's why tall players have a lower hit rate and take longer to develop. Makes the Paddy/Petracca one even more stupid. I reckon Watts is a much better player than Paddy, he just doesn't have anything going for him, can't kick, can't run and can't even hold marks which was what we thought he had.

Carlton have got two players widely tipped to be top 10 in the comp types while we are still hoping our make it to top 10 on our list.

 

[gringo2011]

2018 off-season

-Number 1 draft pick this year and draft that Lekocious dude as we will win the wooden spoon
- Trade Paddy to Geelong for pick 18 and draft a mid
- Give McGovern and Sloane lots of money to get them down
- Sack Richo and bring in Caracella (Richo is a great bloke but we need a coach with a game plan)
- Get rid of Elsuang and put in a new list manager who doesn't judge a player just on 'character'

I'm guessing thats easier said than done

Paddy would be lucky to get a third rounder back.

 

[Premium]

I love your positivity but I don't think they give a ****.. We should send them back to Seaford and give the Moorabbin oval to the womens team. We are a pack of soft lazy w***ers. There are only about 3 players that deserve a spot in next weeks team.

i have high expectations on the kids
billings , gresham , steele , sinclair , acres and throw in hunter , coffield , long , battle , goddard , mcartin ,clavarino , austin - they are all 22 or younger
it is up to ross , steven , carlisle , geary , bruce , membery etc to perform and get the kids into the game.

one thing out of todays game was webster getting more touches than any saints player , however most of them were not to good.

 

[StCicatriz]

For the longest time I've been trying to put my finger on what it is we need to fix to become a good side, to find the root cause behind our 'almost', because it's felt for a couple years now that we were close. If only we'd developed our kids better or, if only we'd picked the right players or, if only we had a half decent ruckman. I've come to the realisation after today's game though that we're rotten to the core.

There is no single issue with St Kilda. We've consistently picked the wrong players in the draft for as long as I can remember. We've struggled to develop a player since Roo came through 18 years ago. We don't have a quality coach in any line from Head to Development and VFL. We don't play players in the right positions, hell we don't even play the right players. We don't go after the right players and we can't attract the right players. I couldn't describe our gameplan if my life were to depend upon it and I don't even think our players could.

This has, in my opinion, lead to the players becoming disenfranchised with the coach and I can not blame them at all. To have a coach so inept that literally not having a coach would lead to a better performance is shameful. But to also have players so soft that not a single one could stand up when it matters is nauseating. And to have a football department that lacks so much spine we can all predict their weak response to a tee is really the best representation of St Kilda I can think of.

I've never in my (admittedly short in relation) life seen such an abhorrent display from any team ever. Essendon after the drug scandal turned up more than this. Melbourne after their thousandth rebuild showed more than this. Even Gold Coast showed more than this in their first year of football. Collingwood's 16 point game a few years ago was better. All these I'm mentioning are better because they were all the worse teams. Today we entered the game with an objectively better list and got spanked like naughty children by an old woman on life support.

I can think of one player today who can feel slightly less shame than the rest, take a bow Jake Carlisle you showed a bit of class and at least attempted to show something resembling grit and determination. For someone who supposedly "has great hands" McCartin had more slippery fingers than a stirrer in a lard factory. For someone who could kick on goal last year Membrey was more likely to kick through North's goals than ours. For someone who is supposed to "provide grit" Koby Stevens disgraced the name of an inside midfielder. And finally for someone who is supposed to "develop our list", I don't think I've seen a worse coaching display under any definition of the term than Alan Richardson.

Not only is he incapable of displaying anything resembling a gameplan, he is clueless on matchday, shows no initiative regarding changes and resorts to the age old plan of throwing Carlisle forward to further expose our defence. Furthermore, he clearly can't develop players as developing requires playing in the right positions. Steele, Sinclair and Acres aren't forwards. Hunter Clark isn't a Half Back Flanker. Stevens can't even call himself a footballer after today's detestable performance. I've defended Longer for a while but injury or not he's clearly not up to it. Ditto Webster. Armo provided essentially nothing today except a player to push Steele, Sinclair, Gresham, Acres and co out of position. Bruce was deplorable and Brown was ineffectual. I didn't even realise Newnes was playing until I read the stats sheet and he should be dropped quicker than a cheetah can run.

This is the worst game of football I've seen St Kilda play and I'm honestly considering finding a new sport to follow.

THIS!

richo's big move in the off-season after a long term contract extension was moving some ****ing deck chairs around, plus the acquisition of playfair.

so given all of the issues we have had in our midfield and its ball movement what do we do? move the deck chairs around, give mcphee a shot. what his change of direction or new strategy:
"oh just go out there and play. i'm not going to coach them as much as what kingsley did. just go do it guys"

that's what 13m of investment in a football dept buys you. "just go do it"

see and this is the absolute core of the issue. in order to fix something you first have to identify whats broken. richo on numerous times has been asked whats going wrong:
1) is it the list: "no we have the players we want"
2) is it the coaching group: "no we have the coaches we want"
3) ok then is it the game plan: "no we think our game plan will beat the best teams and win finals"
4) errrr ummmm ok is it the structure: "no we think the structure we have will beat the best teams and play finals"

SO WHAT ****ING IS IT THEN????

"oh we just dont think we are executing at the moment, that will change"

RIGGGGHHHTTTTTT

dont get me started on the "Richmond won a flag, they spent a lot of time with the all blacks"

NEKT MINUTE
"we are going to go spend time with the all blacks"
"just got back from spending that amazing time with the all blacks, i think we need to stop coaching them at training. they need to start coaching themselves, like the all blacks do"

the all blacks are well oiled machine, best in what they do. its the build up of a decade plus of success and numerous iterations in leadership and the development of a winning culture. WE ARE NOT THERE YET, but i'm sure coaching them less is going to be great. sounds very guy mckenna-ish. "i'm a defender, wtf do i know about playing in the midfield, so now that i'm the midfield coach, i think I will just let them coach themselves" which is plain english for "i have no ****ing idea on how to do the job i'm employed to do"

so that's what all that money got us to send him over to NZ to hang out with the all blacks. "i need to do less of what i'm paid to do"

 

[RWBlyf]

something is internally brewing and I feel it's showing externally. This won't end well.

 

[StCicatriz]

Probably $1.5 million this year. The $500K and then the extra $1 million when he gets paid out later this year.

remember bonuses have to be factored in for the years he didnt get a chance to coach

plus the football dept tax

plus any assistants you have to sack to make room for the guys the new coach wants to bring in

 

[StCicatriz]

**** it feels good to vent without being flamed for it. been thinking it since sydney last year.

 

[luca77]

Dream on. After that crap dished up by the Saints no star player will be joining us this decade!

Thankfully only a couple of years left of it then.
Roo junior almost ready?

 

[gringo2011]

i have high expectations on the kids
billings , gresham , steele , sinclair , acres and throw in hunter , coffield , long , battle , goddard , mcartin ,clavarino , austin - they are all 22 or younger
it is up to ross , steven , carlisle , geary , bruce , membery etc to perform and get the kids into the game.

one thing out of todays game was webster getting more touches than any saints player , however most of them were not to good.

We have high hopes, Gresham looks AFL standard and has potential to be a very good player. Billings is like an up market Jamie Cripps and while he has talent just isn't ever going to be the go to man. He sums up St Kilda, humble, quiet, nice kid with good manners and lets others go first. Acres still could be anything but his good and bad are still on show.

Clark is okay but he's not going to be Joel Selwood in his first season, Coffield hasn't played a game. Steele is looking like GOP like Koby and Dunstan. All solid depth. Long is chaotic and messy like the rest of his team mates but could be anything also.

Stuv is our only AFL standard top line player still. We are the B team of almost players.

 

[luca77]

**** it feels good to vent without being flamed for it. been thinking it since sydney last year.

It was premature ventilation, you had it coming.
Edit: That sounded worse than intended.

 

[F_therest]

What disappointments me the most is a large group of our players are better than the performance they put in today. And I don't know whether it is an effort issue, or whether they aren't being given the opportunity to succeed, or both? But we are better than the shit we put out there today.

And I have zero confidence that anyone at the club will do anything to rectify this.

When Malthouse was our coach, we were getting smashed every week and the players looked dispirited and lacked effort, I blamed the coach, not the players (except a few lazy ones).

Ultimately the coach is responsible for the culture of the team and galvanising the players to buy in...that's what all the good coaches do.

When the players don't like a coach or can see they're going nowhere under him of course they're going to start putting in poor performances...they don't truly believe in the coach/game plan and they're not happy. Plus, some part of them probably almost wants to get smashed so that the club does something and sacks them...which is something a lot of posters want as well.

Imagine your current boss had NFI what they were doing...you'd lose motivation/get frustrated at work.

This current St Kilda group have definitely shown they can work hard and apply manic pressure etc...the players may have just reached the tipping point where they don't believe in Richardson anymore and deep down want him gone.

 

[VDS66]

**** it feels good to vent without being flamed for it. been thinking it since sydney last year.

Almost as if you were waiting for today's result to vindicate yourself...

 

[austinnn]

I honestly feel like I've been violated after that game. I've done nothing at work all day, just watching that shit show then reading these threads. Thank god no one around me is even conscious of this sport. Maybe some of them should apply for jobs at the club, can't be any worse than the pretenders who currently represent us.

What to do? Bearing in mind that realistically Richo won't get the sack for the moment, and we can't bring any new players in until November.

Time to start with home truths; what is it that the players don't like about the coaches or their coaching? Get it all out in the open, no sacred cows.

Richo has been on record as saying he's delegated more this year, so it's possible that that's the problem, and maybe he should get a bit more iron fist. Then again, maybe as we moved from rebuild stage 0 to stage 2, we outgrew him. Kingsley is the transition coach this year and so far I'd say his ideas either aren't working or aren't being followed.

Incidentally, a bit of a low act blaming Cody the kid in the coaches box for the poor coaching this week, Richo ya snake.

The players didn't look sharp at all. The number or times I saw the ball bounce off their shoulders or come out of a pack and the player not be ready to grab it was astounding. I've seen more awareness in a post-lunch kickaround in the park.

The skills!! Ever since I've been a supporter (21 years and counting) we've always wanted for skills; how can it be so hard to get a team who can play. I watched Adelaide v Richmond yesterday and my god, Adelaide have so much flow, their players kick to each other, grab the ball without fumbling, extract in tight packs, everything you want from a team, then you watch our boys just mess up the fundamentals time and time again. Seems like it's always been like that. Maybe we need to move from Moorabbin to a prison yard somewhere. Get the players on edge a bit.

What the hell is the story with Billy Longer? We keep expecting this guy to turn into Shane Mumford, but how can someone who went through years of AFL training and conditioning still be so useless around the ground? We had 4 ruckmen with him Hickey, Pierce and Holmes. Not one of them shows enough to be considered even a good ruckman, let alone elite. WTF? Those talent scouts we have, Tocé and Liberatore, Trout, the lot of them need to hang their heads, likewise our ruck coach. Hickey is too small, Pierce may yet become something but it seems he'll never do it.

The thing is we drafted loads of alright players, when we should have gone the Hawthorn route and sold the farm to get one gun. We laughed at them, but now they have O'Meara and we've got Oh Jesus! We punted on Freezer and that's blown up in our face too. At least we still won the Carlisle trade, but whoop di doo.

This Adelaide game should be a laugh, either it will be a Benny Hill Show and pour a ton more salt in the gaping wound, forcing us to amputate or the Crows will float on in with the assumption it will be an easy win and we'll actually try and redeem ourselves and win against all the odds (yes you say it's impossible, but what would you have said had I told you 2 days ago that North would thrash us by 50 points?)

To you Saints fans suffering in Australia, I feel your pain. We'll make it through together, even if you have no more faith in the club, stick with the forum, stay on the grid, don't suffer alone. We'll make it through just like we have before, and the club may eventually pay us back.

To the day being darkest before the dawn.

 

[StCicatriz]

When Malthouse was our coach, we were getting smashed every week and the players looked dispirited and lacked effort, I blamed the coach, not the players (except a few lazy ones).

Ultimately the coach is responsible for the culture of the team and galvanising the players to buy in...that's what all the good coaches do.

When the players don't like a coach or can see they're going nowhere under him of course they're going to start putting in poor performances...they don't truly believe in the coach/game plan and they're not happy. Plus, some part of them probably almost wants to get smashed so that the club does something and sacks them...which is something a lot of posters want as well.

This current St Kilda group have definitely shown they can work hard and apply manic pressure etc...the players may have just reached the tipping point where they don't believe in Richardson anymore and deep down want him gone.

only so many times you bang you head against the wall before you give up

must be seriously demoralizing employing this game plan of "just apply pressure" with no structure of method to score. keep going to the well over and over and over again for no reward. then you see sides do it at ease against you. rinse and repeat that for 3 seasons.

 

[Present Not Past]

THIS!

NEKT MINUTE
"we are going to go spend time with the all blacks"
"just got back from spending that amazing time with the all blacks, i think we need to stop coaching them at training. they need to start coaching themselves, like the all blacks do"

Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention lately.
Did Richardson actually say this?
If he did then today actually makes sense.
St Kilda needs a new coach.

 

[Jughead77]

I don't think it is unfair or an overreaction to be honest. Because it's not just 2 games into this season. It's the 5 seasons of rebuilding by Richardson prior to this and the last 3 years of so called 'improvement'. According to The Plan we were supposed to be a top 4 side this year and 3 years ago I truly believed it but I honestly don't think we've improved at all since then. We've likely gone backwards and the only change is that we've rotated newer players in and older players out.

I understand everyone's frustrations.....i guess im just hoping that maybe, just maybe they can turn it around. Don't get me wrong im not a richo fanboy. If anything the blowtorch this week should surely go on whoever approved richo's extension last year. It's not as if other clubs were banging on the door to poach him from us. Unfortunately as history has shown we are a club that consistently make bad decisions. No running away from that. We are our own worse enemies.

 

[Premium]

Boomer Harvey was interesting on radio, he said forwards in TAC and underage footy play one on one and don't get to zone. He said forwards like Mc cartin look great but there is no way of knowing how they will play in the AFL. He said it's a lottery basically and that's why tall players have a lower hit rate and take longer to develop. Makes the Paddy/Petracca one even more stupid. I reckon Watts is a much better player than Paddy, he just doesn't have anything going for him, can't kick, can't run and can't even hold marks which was what we thought he had.

Carlton have got two players widely tipped to be top 10 in the comp types while we are still hoping our make it to top 10 on our list.

paddy needs sometime by the looks in the 2s , once kicks a bag in the 2s bring him back

however next week i would play marshal and hickey to combat jacobs and jenkins and bring in weller , dunstan and coffield - out long 8 touches , hunter 7 touches , mcartin to get some goals in the 2s first , longer dropped after his shocker and newnes due to the fact he never had a tackle.

and bring in one of rice , battle , white , lonie or phillips depending on team match ups

and hire a coach

 

[gringo2011]

Almost as if you were waiting for today's result to vindicate yourself...

That's a cowards punch post, no one delights in the humiliation that we put ourselves through today.

 

[StCicatriz]

Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention lately.
Did Richardson actually say this?
If he did then today actually makes sense.
St Kilda needs a new coach.

here ya go mate have a good read of this one:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2017-st-kilda-in-the-media.1155572/page-80#post-53452422

In a nutshell, Richardson has endeavoured to take a step back. Be less controlling. Stop hunting for negatives.

Similar to all coaches, is a strong on self-analysis. Two off-seasons ago he completed a course at Harvard University. Last year he went to the Himalayas for a meditation/educational program.

This year, he camped himself inside the All Blacks before their Test against South Africa in September. He looked at their program, the environment and himself in relation to leadership and delegation.

“I’ve still got to get out of the way a bit,” he said when asked about his greatest lesson.

At the All Blacks “captain’s run’’ in Auckland, Richardson noted how the players, not the coaches, conducted the session.

At St Kilda, a captain’s run would include assistant coaches Adam Kingsley working on stoppages, Danny Sexton on ball movement and Aaron Hamill with the forwards, with Richardson in the middle of the ground with the whistle.

“I walked away from that session with the All Blacks and thought, ‘It just makes sense’,” Richardson said.

 

[StCicatriz]

Almost as if you were waiting for today's result to vindicate yourself...

yeap that's it. totally want whats happening. more losing please. love that shit!

 

[VDS66]

That's a cowards punch post, no one delights in the humiliation that we put ourselves through today.

Settle down.

 

[Saint Shags]

here ya go mate have a good read of this one:
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2017-st-kilda-in-the-media.1155572/page-80#post-53452422

In a nutshell, Richardson has endeavoured to take a step back. Be less controlling. Stop hunting for negatives.

Similar to all coaches, is a strong on self-analysis. Two off-seasons ago he completed a course at Harvard University. Last year he went to the Himalayas for a meditation/educational program.

This year, he camped himself inside the All Blacks before their Test against South Africa in September. He looked at their program, the environment and himself in relation to leadership and delegation.

“I’ve still got to get out of the way a bit,” he said when asked about his greatest lesson.

At the All Blacks “captain’s run’’ in Auckland, Richardson noted how the players, not the coaches, conducted the session.

At St Kilda, a captain’s run would include assistant coaches Adam Kingsley working on stoppages, Danny Sexton on ball movement and Aaron Hamill with the forwards, with Richardson in the middle of the ground with the whistle.

“I walked away from that session with the All Blacks and thought, ‘It just makes sense’,” Richardson said.

So let me get this straight. He has wanted to step back a bit. Perhaps let the Captains run be more player led and focus on positives more.

Yep sack him. Useless.

 

[VDS66]

yeap that's it. totally want whats happening. more losing please. love that shit!

You'll be right.

 

[VDS66]

So let me get this straight. He has wanted to step back a bit. Perhaps let the Captains run be more player led and focus on positives more.

Yep sack him. Useless.

Lol people bagging him last year because he wasn't listening to his assistants...