Movie Star Wars - Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker - Spoilers and Rumors

[Moti]

Ah then it's an amazing plot if the point was that it was redundant! Totally makes it worthwhile and not at all.. er.. redundant.

His swap from wanting to bail to save Rey to being committed to the cause is such a bizarre shift though and people just hand wave and claim that Canto Bight was what caused this and not as if he just randomly decides to change. His motivation to go to Canto Bight was to save Rey since she would be going back to the Raddus after returning from Ach-To, he continues to be motivated by this all the way up to crash land on Crait (unless you want to claim his "Rebel scum" line to Phasma as meaning something) and then he randomly swaps and is happy to kill himself for the cause.

The patronising use of "Look closer" as if someone who has lived a life of servitude to the First Order and DESERTED THEM when realising the terrors they were perpetrating in TFA wasn't aware of the cruelty in the universe is just bizarre.

The fact that the mission fails doesn't make the mission redundant. Do we scrap IW because they don't stop Thanos?

Throughout both movies he makes decisions to help the resistance but doesn't commit. That is because his biggest confidant is Rey who has a similar mindset. It is only when he starts seeing the struggle through Rose's eyes he starts to see why it is important. It is through Del Toro's character that he is given the carrot to continue being ambivalent. He makes his choice on the 1st Order ship and follows through on Crait. If Canto Bight worked better it would be much clearer but all the element are still there.

 

[SM]

The fact that the mission fails doesn't make the mission redundant. Do we scrap IW because they don't stop Thanos?

Throughout both movies he makes decisions to help the resistance but doesn't commit. That is because his biggest confidant is Rey who has a similar mindset. It is only when he starts seeing the struggle through Rose's eyes he starts to see why it is important. It is through Del Toro's character that he is given the carrot to continue being ambivalent. He makes his choice on the 1st Order ship and follows through on Crait. If Canto Bight worked better it would be much clearer but all the element are still there.

IW was the main plot, Finn and Rose was basically the C-plot in the movie.

He's one of the main title characters of TFA so the very fact he's in a C-plot which has no impact on events is what makes it so utterly garbage, regardless of any minor character progression - which as I said is actually just as clearly achieved on Snoke's ship.

You cut out Canto Bight, add extra dialogue at the start about Rose's dead sister and Finn realising the impact of the war on others around him, and then going straight to Snoke's ship gives the exact same progression in much shorter time and allows Finn to instead be used on a more significant plot. But RJ had to create something because (for some reason) he claimed he had no idea how to write Finn and Poe together.

 

[edgie]

Infinity War had a point and it's consequences had emotional weight that flowed through to the next movie.

The Canto plot can literally be edited out, and the only thing it changes is that the last scene with broom boy makes no sense.

 

[JackOutback]

The fact that the mission fails doesn't make the mission redundant. Do we scrap IW because they don't stop Thanos?

Throughout both movies he makes decisions to help the resistance but doesn't commit. That is because his biggest confidant is Rey who has a similar mindset. It is only when he starts seeing the struggle through Rose's eyes he starts to see why it is important. It is through Del Toro's character that he is given the carrot to continue being ambivalent. He makes his choice on the 1st Order ship and follows through on Crait. If Canto Bight worked better it would be much clearer but all the element are still there.

Exactly; it's amazing how many people still fail to see that failure was the driving force behind the film. As Yoda says, it's the greatest teacher. All of the characters fail (Rey fails to turn Kylo, Poe fails to take over the ship, neither of which means the storylines are pointless) until they start working together, then everything turns around.

The Canto plot can literally be edited out, and the only thing it changes is that the last scene with broom boy makes no sense.

This is also possibly true.

 

[SM]

Exactly; it's amazing how many people still fail to see that failure was the driving force behind the film. As Yoda says, it's the greatest teacher. All of the characters fail (Rey fails to turn Kylo, Poe fails to take over the ship, neither of which means the storylines are pointless) until they start working together, then everything turns around.


This is also possibly true.

Oh we get that failure is a driver of the film, that's why it was such a failure.

Everything turns around? Rey starts working with Kylo and then gets betrayed by him; Poe starts working with Leia and most of their pilots get killed (again) attacking the walkers (great lesson his failure was); Finn starts working with.. uh.. the Resistance? and gets rammed into by Rose and dragged to safety because apparently he was doing the wrong thing.

 

[mike123]

Hats off to Boyega in sharing his experience, much respect from me. That’s some brave and bold comments to make against the Disney machine. The Finn character I’ve said many times started off with so much potential, it fell apart from there. They had no idea what to do with the character, and it absolutely showed.

Finn’s potential was destroyed fairly quickly in TFA

 

[Exe Gesis]

Finn’s potential was destroyed fairly quickly in TFA

soon as he started shooting his fellow stormtroopers and wooha'ing

 

[mike123]

soon as he started shooting his fellow stormtroopers and wooha'ing

His character was just a pisstake from the get go

 

[SM]

soon as he started shooting his fellow stormtroopers and wooha'ing

They weren't his fellow stormtroopers, he deserted them, that was central to his character. Come on dude.

 

[Exe Gesis]

They weren't his fellow stormtroopers, he deserted them, that was central to his character. Come on dude.

So he falls to his knees and cries at the bloody death of his fellow stormtrooper, and literally 10 mins later he's whooping and yeeha'ing as he blasts hundreds of his other fellow stormtroopers to death.

 

[SM]

So he falls to his knees and cries at the bloody death of his fellow stormtrooper, and literally 10 mins later he's whooping and yeeha'ing as he blasts hundreds of his other fellow stormtroopers to death.

Literally 10 minutes later he blows up one TIE fighter as they escape, yes.

 

[glenferry23]

To be fair that’s a good point raised about TFA. Finn decided not to participate in killing the villagers, not too long afterwards though he’s content to kill his (former) colleagues.

Again, that was Abrams’ movie. It’s not just Johnson who ****ed it up. A collective failure.

 

[SM]

To be fair that’s a good point raised about TFA. Finn decided not to participate in killing the villagers, not too long afterwards though he’s content to kill his (former) colleagues.

Again, that was Abrams’ movie. It’s not just Johnson who f’ed it up. A collective failure.

Leia has her planet blown up and hours later she's comforting Luke because Obi-Wan died and he's miserable and then moments later he's blowing up TIEs and cheering and laughing.

SW has never been too consistent with its characters' emotions.

 

[mike123]

Leia has her planet blown up and hours later she's comforting Luke because Obi-Wan died and he's miserable and then moments later he's blowing up TIEs and cheering and laughing.

SW has never been too consistent with its characters' emotions.

Leia comforting Luke doesn’t spit in the face of her morality though

 

[SM]

Leia comforting Luke doesn’t spit in the face of her morality though

Finn helping Poe escape is an immoral issue now?

It's only inconsistent as Glen says because he goes from being a loyal stormtrooper to being ok with killing them quite quickly, but that's likely because the conditioning broke in his mind and he was able to think freely and help Poe. It's still jarring but, as I said, no more jarring than many of the other emotional swings in SW films.

Anakin killing Mace then instantly regretting doing it then standing up and being happy to slaughter the Jedi again; Leia showing basically no grief over her planet being blown up; Luke being upset about Obi-Wan then suddenly being happy and laughing and fine; etc.

 

[mike123]

Finn helping Poe escape is an immoral issue now?

It's only inconsistent as Glen says because he goes from being a loyal stormtrooper to being ok with killing them quite quickly, but that's likely because the conditioning broke in his mind and he was able to think freely and help Poe. It's still jarring but, as I said, no more jarring than many of the other emotional swings in SW films.

Anakin killing Mace then instantly regretting doing it then standing up and being happy to slaughter the Jedi again; Leia showing basically no grief over her planet being blown up; Luke being upset about Obi-Wan then suddenly being happy and laughing and fine; etc.

Firstly just because the OT and the PT got things wrong doesn’t absolve the ST from it or suddenly make it ok.

Secondly I didn’t mean it was immoral in and of itself. It just breaks the Finns established mora code.

Thirdly what you’re bringing up are just emotional swings. People go through them. It might be jarring to watch on the big screen but none of that is character breaking. I agree on the Anakin example btw.

Leia comforting someone and Luke celebrating a shot don’t go against their established characters.

Finn casually shooting at stormtroopers and celebrating a tie fighter being after it being established he doesn’t like death is extremely character breaking. It’s also jarring he doesn’t pull up Poe for killing his mate or even mention it but I’ll leave that in the jarring but not character breaking category.

Also the first thing the film shows was Finn being disloyal. He was never a “loyal” stormstrooper in the film.
His loyalty to the first order was never issue.

 

[edgie]

If we are gonna mention Luke's emotions how can we not mention the 'ah bummer' that his aunt and uncle got, and then 'I can't believe he's gone' bout an old bloke he knew for a few hours.

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[edgie]

Exactly; it's amazing how many people still fail to see that failure was the driving force behind the film. As Yoda says, it's the greatest teacher. All of the characters fail (Rey fails to turn Kylo, Poe fails to take over the ship, neither of which means the storylines are pointless) until they start working together, then everything turns around.


This is also possibly true.

Except that there's no resolution or learning or growth that happened from anything Finn and Rose done, unlike those others.

I think it was less a part of the theme and more a coincidence thanks to bad writing that you are lumping in with those other arcs to mean something.

Luke... I honestly don't know but something happens? Poe learns a different approach to leadership, it's ok to retreat to fight another day. Finn and Rose learn from their adventure that... Nothing. Some interesting themes are forgotten, some horrendous lines are inserted, and carry on.

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[SM]

Firstly just because the OT and the PT got things wrong doesn’t absolve the ST from it or suddenly make it ok.

Secondly I didn’t mean it was immoral in and of itself. It just breaks the Finns established mora code.

Thirdly what you’re bringing up are just emotional swings. People go through them. It might be jarring to watch on the big screen but none of that is character breaking. I agree on the Anakin example btw.

Leia comforting someone and Luke celebrating a shot don’t go against their established characters.

Finn casually shooting at stormtroopers and celebrating a tie fighter being after it being established he doesn’t like death is extremely character breaking. It’s also jarring he doesn’t pull up Poe for killing his mate or even mention it but I’ll leave that in the jarring but not character breaking category.

Also the first thing the film shows was Finn being disloyal. He was never a “loyal” stormstrooper in the film.
His loyalty to the first order was never issue.

No it's established he doesn't like the deaths of innocents.

I wasn't suggesting those films got things wrong, just that it's a SW trope to move on quickly.

 

[glenferry23]

ExceptFinn and Rose learn from their adventure that... Nothing. Some interesting themes are forgotten, some horrendous lines are inserted, and carry on.

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Disney have been taking the piss in these sequels by putting key information into the novel instead of on screen. So am not sure if there’s more context within the novel about this.

But if it’s going by the movie itself, then the lesson was that despite the heavy losses the resistance already faced, it’s okay to save one person that you love even though it means dozens more of your colleagues get obliterated?

 

[edgie]

Disney have been taking the piss in these sequels by putting key information into the novel instead of on screen. So am not sure if there’s more context within the novel about this.

But if it’s going by the movie itself, then the lesson was that despite the heavy losses the resistance already faced, it’s okay to save one person that you love even though it means dozens more of your colleagues get obliterated?

All sides contribute to the awful military industrial complex. War is good business. They get played against each other.

So... Keep fighting!

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[Ghost Patrol]

what happened?

 

[Exe Gesis]

 

[JackOutback]

RJ got it where JJ and so many others didn’t. Narratively, Rey needed to hear she was a nobody because it was the worst thing she could have been told (whereas for Luke, as a Jedi following in his ‘heroic’ father’ footsteps, hearing his dad was actually the worst person in the galaxy was the worst news he could hear). And Star Wars fans needed to get gear to get over the same stupid tropes that keep reappearing.

Rey being a Kenobi is just a different kind of stupid to being a Palpatine.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

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Lols she basically confirmed that Disney had no plan when they made the sequel trilogy just flew by the seed of their pants.

Kathleen Kennedy is a lousy leader that should be fired pronto