Movie Star Wars - Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker - Spoilers and Rumors

[theyellowsash]

I would strongly feel that RJ's Luke destroys the originals.

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Sure, he becomes a character you might not like. But that doesn't fundamentally change the previous story.

And it's not that big of a stretch that such a crushing failure could seriously warp someones ego and personality. Its probably the only thing remotely real life about star wars really.

Oh and I'm not saying you're wrong for not liking it, it doesn't matter to me, it's just that that's not the point.

 

[edgie]

To me the lines

...
Luke Skywalker: Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi.
...


Are just as OT invalidating as Palpatine in TROS. Two movies in and it gives us a complete reset on the last forty years.

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[Exe Gesis]

Exactly, edgie. To reset was a catastrophe.

 

[glenferry23]

At the risk of being seen to jump to TLJ’s defence, Snoke’s disfigurement fits pretty squarely into supplementary material whereas how the Emperor survived is absolutely crucial. I can’t believe there’s a quote from JJ where he says they cut it because it wasn’t that important.

Also, the best way to ‘fix’ the sequel trilogy is to simply turn it into a duology. Rey tries to redeem Kylo, she fails, he goes on to create a new breed of Sith, she goes on to create a new breed of Jedi. But the endless Jedi/Sith cycle is broken.

Disfigurement and injuries, sure. The fact they’ve battled before I feel is very relevant.

When, where, was this pre Ben turning or after, so many question marks over it that are worth more than a mention in a comic book. Same with beating the shit out of the knights of ren but sparing their lives in an act of compassion/hope of redemption. That’s quintessential Luke and again, it deserved more.

Most important of all though, Ben never killed another student at the academy. It was never him. The knights murdered them. That’s such a key point. And for me, indefensible why that’s omitted from TLJ and placed into supplementary material.

The sequels overall are littered with gaping holes and questions, which is a natural reflection of how incoherent and miss matched they are with each other as a collective set of films.

he had to leave room for lando creeping on his daughter instead

Yes that scene was a bizarre moment, he has plenty of natural charm when he speaks however that scene was dialled up to 11. Was it ever confirmed though she’s his daughter?

Have genuinely forgotten. Am quite apathetic to the sequel trilogy overall so that’s probably why I struggle to remember that.

 

[theyellowsash]

Disfigurement and injuries, sure. The fact they’ve battled before I feel is very relevant.

When, where, was this pre Ben turning or after, so many question marks over it that are worth more than a mention in a comic book. Same with beating the sh*t out of the knights of ren but sparing their lives in an act of compassion/hope of redemption. That’s quintessential Luke and again, it deserved more.

Most important of all though, Ben never killed another student at the academy. It was never him. The knights murdered them. That’s such a key point. And for me, indefensible why that’s omitted from TLJ and placed into supplementary material.

The sequels overall are littered with gaping holes and questions, which is a natural reflection of how incoherent and miss matched they are with each other as a collective set of films.




Yes that scene was a bizarre moment, he has plenty of natural charm when he speaks however that scene was dialled up to 11. Was it ever confirmed though she’s his daughter?

Have genuinely forgotten. Am quite apathetic to the sequel trilogy overall so that’s probably why I struggle to remember that.

Yeah it was in one of those movie picture fact book things

 

[glenferry23]

Yeah it was in one of those movie picture fact book things

Well there you go. I can’t imagine why a fact like that wouldn’t be established in the film itself. Surely it wouldn’t have been too difficult to do so?

Finn wanting to tell Rey something, but never did. Wedge returns in a blink and you’ll miss it moment, but no one mentioned his name or the film didn’t make it obvious who it was. It’s all a bit nonsensical.

 

[SM]

I would strongly feel that RJ's Luke destroys the originals.

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I would strongly disagree and would suggest you have a poor grasp of the OT if you think that*.

*excluding the flashback scene with Ben.

 

[edgie]

I would strongly disagree and would suggest you have a poor grasp of the OT if you think that*.

*excluding the flashback scene with Ben.

You can't exclude anything.

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[SM]

You can't exclude anything.

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Well I can because the rest of his role in the actual present of the film was fine.

 

[JackOutback]

he had to leave room for lando creeping on his daughter instead

To be fair, there’s no evidence whatsoever in the movie that she might be his daughter Another wild swing and a miss.

 

[SM]

To be fair, there’s no evidence whatsoever in the movie that she might be his daughter Another wild swing and a miss.

I thought it was implied at the end, was a very weird end.

 

[JackOutback]

Disfigurement and injuries, sure. The fact they’ve battled before I feel is very relevant.

When, where, was this pre Ben turning or after, so many question marks over it that are worth more than a mention in a comic book. Same with beating the sh*t out of the knights of ren but sparing their lives in an act of compassion/hope of redemption. That’s quintessential Luke and again, it deserved more.

Most important of all though, Ben never killed another student at the academy. It was never him. The knights murdered them. That’s such a key point. And for me, indefensible why that’s omitted from TLJ and placed into supplementary material.

The sequels overall are littered with gaping holes and questions, which is a natural reflection of how incoherent and miss matched they are with each other as a collective set of films.




Yes that scene was a bizarre moment, he has plenty of natural charm when he speaks however that scene was dialled up to 11. Was it ever confirmed though she’s his daughter?

Have genuinely forgotten. Am quite apathetic to the sequel trilogy overall so that’s probably why I struggle to remember that.

Is there any evidence RJ wrote this and left it out? Or is it expanded universe content filling in what it sees as gaps? There’s a difference between adding new material after the fact, even if it makes a fundamental difference, compared to leaving out critical information. TLJ still makes narrative sense without the new info, aspects of TROS absolutely don’t.

 

[glenferry23]

Is there any evidence RJ wrote this and left it out? Or is it expanded universe content filling in what it sees as gaps? There’s a difference between adding new material after the fact, even if it makes a fundamental difference, compared to leaving out critical information. TLJ still makes narrative sense without the new info, aspects of TROS absolutely don’t.

I genuinely don’t know mate, can only speculate from afar. However given that he was the writer of those scenes in depicting how the events at the academy unfolded, which was a key theme of Luke’s “failure”, it’s not beyond the stretch of the imagination that he would’ve known that Ben didn’t murder any of his fellow students.

Remember, this is the same bloke who omitted Luke mourning his best friends’ death because of pacing. Again though, who knows. It’s just an example of the incoherent nature and disconnect of the sequels.

 

[JackOutback]

I thought it was implied at the end, was a very weird end.

I remember walking out of the cinema scratching my head thinking, why did they have Lando cracking on to this young chick? If it was implied, it was too subtle (or lacking in any context). I found out later during JJ’s explanation tour.

 

[glenferry23]

I remember walking out of the cinema scratching my head thinking, why did they have Lando cracking on to this young chick? If it was implied, it was too subtle (or lacking in any context). I found out later during JJ’s explanation tour.

It wasn’t very subtle at all was it

The way he said “well let’s go find out then!”. There was a bloke about 6-7 seats to my right at the time cinema (a very empty cinema overall) and he said (quoting the younger Stifler brother from American Pie): “you too are gonna **** aren’t ya!!”

It was ****ing gold. I really don’t know what was going on in those closing scenes.

 

[edgie]

Well I can because the rest of his role in the actual present of the film was fine.

If you exclude the bad parts then it's only good parts

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[SM]

If you exclude the bad parts then it's only good parts

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So you agree he's fine outside that scene?

 

[edgie]

So you agree he's fine outside that scene?

I think in isolation he's good in the whole movie.

But it isn't isolation in a nine part saga. His arc and the reason behind it just doesn't fit at all not only with the OT but also the ideas in TFA that he wanted to be found when the time was right.

Oh no sorry the lightsaber toss was awful too.

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[SM]

I think in isolation he's good in the whole movie.

But it isn't isolation in a nine part saga. His arc and the reason behind it just doesn't fit at all not only with the OT but also the ideas in TFA that he wanted to be found when the time was right.

Oh no sorry the lightsaber toss was awful too.

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Uh yes it does. So don't get cute and say that 'apart from the bad scene he's good' if you don't agree with that. The flashback scene is the one part of his character I don't agree with, but the rest is very consistent, and in fact was even consistent with the original EU.

 

[JackOutback]

I think in isolation he's good in the whole movie.

But it isn't isolation in a nine part saga. His arc and the reason behind it just doesn't fit at all not only with the OT but also the ideas in TFA that he wanted to be found when the time was right.

Oh no sorry the lightsaber toss was awful too.

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Again, blame JJ. RJ rightly worked out that the only explanation for Luke’s absence was that he was removed from the Force. Otherwise you’re saying he wanted to be found ‘when the time was right’ but apparently neither the destruction of multiple worlds resulting in the death of millions nor the murder of his best friend by his former student were the ‘right time’.

You can argue with the direction he chose but not the logic behind it.

 

[SM]

In the NJO for the first third/half of the series, Luke removes the Jedi Order from the conflict, saying it goes against their values to be caught up in the war; how is that contrary to the Luke presented in TLJ who also removes himself from the conflict and believes the Jedi shouldn't be involved in conflicts?

 

[edgie]

In the NJO for the first third/half of the series, Luke removes the Jedi Order from the conflict, saying it goes against their values to be caught up in the war; how is that contrary to the Luke presented in TLJ who also removes himself from the conflict and believes the Jedi shouldn't be involved in conflicts?

As someone who was never crash hot on the EU to start with you're asking the wrong person if you're looking for a 'gotcha!' moment here.

 

[edgie]

Again, blame JJ. RJ rightly worked out that the only explanation for Luke’s absence was that he was removed from the Force. Otherwise you’re saying he wanted to be found ‘when the time was right’ but apparently neither the destruction of multiple worlds resulting in the death of millions nor the murder of his best friend by his former student were the ‘right time’.

You can argue with the direction he chose but not the logic behind it.

Not wanting to be found is inconsistent with JJ's setup.

That inconsistency is squarely on RJ.

But... Luke removed himself from the force. He couldn't feel the destruction of the worlds or death of Han, obviously.

 

[SM]

As someone who was never crash hot on the EU to start with you're asking the wrong person if you're looking for a 'gotcha!' moment here.

You're the one saying that the presentation of Luke in TLJ is inconsistent with his character as previously presented, but that's hardly true if multiple sources have drawn the same inference from where the OT left him.

 

[edgie]

You're the one saying that the presentation of Luke in TLJ is inconsistent with his character as previously presented, but that's hardly true if multiple sources have drawn the same inference from where the OT left him.

Is it inconsistent if I thought much of those multiple sources were shit as well?