Rumour Stars on the leash - Knights / Pav to Collingwood? Non monsiuer

[Bay Pie]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

I'm glad some of you blokes aren't looking after our list.
Trade Jarryd Blair? Trade Josh Thomas?
Absolutely nuts. Both will be stars for this club. You don't give away class & both those guys have it in spades.
Luckily Mick & Derek Hine are running our show.

Easy there big guy. The context of the question was 'Would these guys have any currency if offered for trade?'

I wouldn't like to trade any of the 3 but to land a player like Knights, who I agree would fit in nicely on a HFF rotating through wing/midfield, we'll have to look at offering up a promising player or goof draft pick, of which Blair has shown the most at AFL.

 

[frizzle]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Actually I'd say guys who are tough and tenacious at contests are fairly common. It's a matter of finding ones who have more to offer than just the toughness. Blair has shown he can be handy at AFL level, but I personally don't see him being anything more than useful. Thomas is an unknown at AFL level. Right now, the club is going all out for a flag. Take either of Blair or Thomas off our list and we'll lose very little in a flag tilt. Throw in Knights and we'll get a pretty significant boost, because the guy is a seriously good footballer.

We've got significant depth in the inside midfielder department, I think we can afford to let one go.


I actually think we lack a guy who can thump the ball 60 odd metres with penetration and accuracy in our attacking half. Knights can do this.

I don't post here very often but I'll be sure to pop back to remind you of what you just posted about Blair. He is the 2008 Morish medalist & has displayed plenty of class in both his VFL & now AFL career. In case you haven't noticed Mick thinks he is worthy of playing finals for the top team in the comp. I tend to agree with him. How many VFL games have you blokes seen him play before his AFL debut? Looking forward to wiping the egg off your face - Later & Go pies!!!!!!!!

 

[frizzle]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Easy there big guy. The context of the question was 'Would these guys have any currency if offered for trade?'

I wouldn't like to trade any of the 3 but to land a player like Knights, who I agree would fit in nicely on a HFF rotating through wing/midfield, we'll have to look at offering up a promising player or goof draft pick, of which Blair has shown the most at AFL.

Didak & Swan have even more currency but we are not talking of trading them are we? What's your point? As I said I'm glad Mick & Hine are in charge.

 

[Dundalis]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Jarryd Blair & Josh Thomas are inside mids. Hard at the footy & tough in the contest.
They don't grow on trees. We don't need Knights & could not fit Pav in our cap anyway. I'm not saying Knights is no good because he is a fine player. But I'll back our young blokes any day. Hine knows what he is doing. JMac is not as good as the other 2 in my opinion.

I would actually say there are more inside mids going around than HFF that can kick 40 goals and play in the midfield. So players like Knights don't grow on trees either, in fact we only have one of them (Didak), while we have a few inside mids going around. I would trade Blair for him, but I probably wouldn't trade Thomas, as he seems to be basically Blair but with pace, which is a major asset for an inside mid IMO. We have one in Wellingham, it would be nice to have another.

Blair may be another Mitchell (I doubt it) but he likely won't get the chance here due to Ball, Wellingham, Pendles doing the inside stuff, with Dayne Beams to join them in the next 1 or 2 years. Josh Thomas will likely overtake Blair for whatever is left for the inside role, if not next year, then the year after due to having more strings to his bow. Blair will not have a long term career in his current role in the side. He has to be a full time, or mostly full time inside mid long term.

 

[HFF]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Just had a look on the Crows board, someone said that it was reported on the ch10 news that Knights has put an offer forward in terms of contract demands to Crows who think he is being "unrealistic".

Perhaps the poster who claimed on this board that Knights has been offered a 450K per yr contract (far and away more than he has been offered by anyone thus far) by the Pies has some sort of truth or merit to it.

 

[Hva sher a]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

haven't read the 2000 posts on this but hopefully someone has said it - this sort of rumour always goes around at this time because Collingwood sells papers

and given our success this year I doubt if anyone would want to trade with us anyway.

I'd like to see Hine do his stuff and find another Beams or an injury-free Rus from the draft.

 

[shawthing09]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

I think your missing the point Frizzle, the point people are making is whilst they are varying levels of promising prospects in the medium term our shot at a flag is right now. There is no point holding onto your resources and hoping your shot at a flag lasts forever. Football moves fast and if you miss your chance you have to start all over again. Both may end up guns who play 200 games and win brownlows but if we lose a guy who is on the fringe or a guy who isn't even in the best 22 for a guy who jumps in and makes the whole side better then we have increased our chance at a flag straight away. Knights still has a lot of football ahead of him and Pav in our side whilst not long term would increase our chances at a flag by a huge margin.

Also it's easy to look good in a side that is dominating the ball and when your going right under the radar. Blair may be an out and out star I wouldn't bet against it, but I wouldn't be judging the limits of his upside based on what his doing at the moment. In fact I'd say given the type of player he is I am not sure how much he can improve, which is fair enough given he is a pretty complete package but I just don't see him being any better then a really solid handy contributer long term.

 

[Zahki]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

I think your missing the point Frizzle, the point people are making is whilst they are varying levels of promising prospects in the medium term our shot at a flag is right now. There is no point holding onto your resources and hoping your shot at a flag lasts forever.

Why's that. I like the idea of staying in the top 4 year after year. With smart drafting looking toward the future it's not impossible. Screw the 'boom-bust' cycle I say.

 

[shawthing09]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Why's that. I like the idea of staying in the top 4 year after year. With smart drafting looking toward the future it's not impossible. Screw the 'boom-bust' cycle I say.

It's nice in theory but the AFL's draft system isn't designed that way, If your extremely smart (and have extra money in your salary cap) you can stay in the top 8 for a long period of time like Sydney but even they are no longer genuine contenders and as I mentioned part of their ability to stay a float is due to them being able to offer fringe players a little more coin.

The system is designed to help struggling clubs build with priority draft picks and make it harder for the clubs who do well so your windows are cyclical. The Melbourne's and Tiger's of the world will eventually close the gap and extremely important players like Jolly and Ball will drop off, after that guys like Swan and Didak.

It's easy to "replace" these guys hypothetically with the young talent on our list currently but it never works out that way. Some will step up and fill the gaps and others won't. There is a big difference between being a fringe player who looks awesome in a side full of stars and a guy who is able to be the driving force behind a side. Look at the way WCE midfield, at their heights people would have thought guys like Fletcher, Rosa, Nockoski, Embley etc where all very good players many of those have just not stepped up to be much at all. If you don't want to win flags you can sit around the middle of ladder forever and never quiet be good enough to win one or alternatively you can aknowledge the system is made for you to have success and failure in cycles and try to take advantage of it.

St Kilda and Hawthorn both did the later. Geelong got lucky with father son picks but also had a period where they built from the lower half of the ladder and it's no suprise that our premiership tilt is in a year where both Thomas and Pendles are starting to reach the peak of their powers. Obviously a lot more goes into it then finish at the bottom end up at the top but you'd have to be extremely lucky to build a premiership side whilst not dropping heavily down the ladder. Given the idea of football is to win premierships I'd rather ride the cycles then be a middle dweller.

 

[frizzle]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

I think your missing the point Frizzle, the point people are making is whilst they are varying levels of promising prospects in the medium term our shot at a flag is right now. There is no point holding onto your resources and hoping your shot at a flag lasts forever. Football moves fast and if you miss your chance you have to start all over again. Both may end up guns who play 200 games and win brownlows but if we lose a guy who is on the fringe or a guy who isn't even in the best 22 for a guy who jumps in and makes the whole side better then we have increased our chance at a flag straight away. Knights still has a lot of football ahead of him and Pav in our side whilst not long term would increase our chances at a flag by a huge margin.

Also it's easy to look good in a side that is dominating the ball and when your going right under the radar. Blair may be an out and out star I wouldn't bet against it, but I wouldn't be judging the limits of his upside based on what his doing at the moment. In fact I'd say given the type of player he is I am not sure how much he can improve, which is fair enough given he is a pretty complete package but I just don't see him being any better then a really solid handy contributer long term.

Bollocks
You can't see a kid who is 20 years old improving after 9 games? But Knights at nearly 24 will? Is that what your saying? Have we seen the best of Blairy already? You lot must have amazing ESP powers.
Your quite prepared to offload a kid who is more than holding his own in his first season in the big time for a guy who missed 17 out of 22 games through injury this year.We would also have to pay him at least 3 times what Blairy is on right now and then hope he doesn't have an injury riddled year like this year. It's just madness even thinking of it. yes our premiership time is now and Jarryd Blair will produce the goods in our premiership team.

I haven't discussed Pav because we could not fit him in our cap anyway. It's irrelevant

In Hine we trust.

 

[Bay Pie]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Didak & Swan have even more currency but we are not talking of trading them are we? What's your point? As I said I'm glad Mick & Hine are in charge.

The point is Didak & Swan are stars and definite best 22. Trading them for Knights does not improve our team immediately.

Losing Blair, McCarthy or Thomas for Knights does. Balir has the most currency.

Shawy post is spot on.

 

[frizzle]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

The point is Didak & Swan are stars and definite best 22. Trading them for Knights does not improve our team immediately.

Losing Blair, McCarthy or Thomas for Knights does. Balir has the most currency.

Shawy post is spot on.

I am certain Hine & Mick would not trade Blair or Thomas for someone who has just missed 17 out of 22 games through injury, is 3 and a half years older & costs at least twice as much if not more to have on our list. JMac they may consider seeing he has had more time to consolidate a place in the senior team & has not been able to so far.
You have a grass is greener on the other side outlook for some strange reason. Wake up & smell the roses. We have the best list in the competition right now. We don't need to make knee jerk reactions with our recruiting or trading & unlike some other teams we need to stay under a salary cap.

 

[shawthing09]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Bollocks
You can't see a kid who is 20 years old improving after 9 games? But Knights at nearly 24 will? Is that what your saying? Have we seen the best of Blairy already? You lot must have amazing ESP powers.
Your quite prepared to offload a kid who is more than holding his own in his first season in the big time for a guy who missed 17 out of 22 games through injury this year.We would also have to pay him at least 3 times what Blairy is on right now and then hope he doesn't have an injury riddled year like this year. It's just madness even thinking of it. yes our premiership time is now and Jarryd Blair will produce the goods in our premiership team.

I haven't discussed Pav because we could not fit him in our cap anyway. It's irrelevant

In Hine we trust.

I am not saying he won't improve I am saying that it is equally a stretch to assume that he will be a star or even a player of Knights quality in 3 years time as it is to suggest that he will not improve at all.

He almost will certainly improve but the fact that he has come in pretty AFL ready to a side that's flying means it's a huge unknown. As I said there are plenty of players who have looked good in sides that are flying and just struggled to take more of the responsibility.

The fact is Knights in our side would add more then Blair at least over the next two years and even if Blair manages to end up the better player I wouldn't care if it got us a flag now it's to hard to predict how things will change and where your side is going to be at in 4 years time.

 

[sr36]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

I am not saying he won't improve I am saying that it is equally a stretch to assume that he will be a star or even a player of Knights quality in 3 years time as it is to suggest that he will not improve at all.

He almost will certainly improve but the fact that he has come in pretty AFL ready to a side that's flying means it's a huge unknown. As I said there are plenty of players who have looked good in sides that are flying and just struggled to take more of the responsibility.

The fact is Knights in our side would add more then Blair at least over the next two years and even if Blair manages to end up the better player I wouldn't care if it got us a flag now it's to hard to predict how things will change and where your side is going to be at in 4 years time.

While everything that you've said is probably true, you don't trade young guys who've shown that they're good enough and have an energy, intensity and work ethic like Blair does. His heart and soul attitude is necessary for a club.

 

[frizzle]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

I am not saying he won't improve I am saying that it is equally a stretch to assume that he will be a star or even a player of Knights quality in 3 years time as it is to suggest that he will not improve at all.

He almost will certainly improve but the fact that he has come in pretty AFL ready to a side that's flying means it's a huge unknown. As I said there are plenty of players who have looked good in sides that are flying and just struggled to take more of the responsibility.

The fact is Knights in our side would add more then Blair at least over the next two years and even if Blair manages to end up the better player I wouldn't care if it got us a flag now it's to hard to predict how things will change and where your side is going to be at in 4 years time.

That is not fact at all, it's your opinion.
I happen to strongly disagree with it. I will bet you our club does as well.
First of all, Knights has to get on the paddock to make any impact & we don't need him to win a premiership, we will do it anyway either this year or next. The young crop coming through will ensure we are strong for many years to come and our club is thinking for both now & for our future.

 

[hotpieinoven]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

rumour is mundy from dockers is keen on a pies move..his whole family are all pies fans..dont know how much truth is in it as i have read it in another forum

 

[mattys123]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

rumour is mundy from dockers is keen on a pies move..his whole family are all pies fans..dont know how much truth is in it as i have read it in another forum

Christ, if there's any truth to this at all, we should ignore Pavlich (going to stay anyway) and Knights (over priced) and go for Mundy.

Mundy would be considered a star if he played in Victoria, he is one of the main reasons why Freo are going so well.

I doubt it's true though, Freo would throw big money at him you would think, although they have a heap of players they just signed up to long term deals.

I'd take Mundy tomorrow, would slot straight in as Pendles partner in the midfield rotation. e.g. Pendles goes out, Mundy comes in etc etc.

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Christ, if there's any truth to this at all, we should ignore Pavlich (going to stay anyway) and Knights (over priced) and go for Mundy.

Mundy would be considered a star if he played in Victoria, he is one of the main reasons why Freo are going so well.

I doubt it's true though, Freo would throw big money at him you would think, although they have a heap of players they just signed up to long term deals.

I'd take Mundy tomorrow, would slot straight in as Pendles partner in the midfield rotation. e.g. Pendles goes out, Mundy comes in etc etc.

We where after Mundy a few years ago when he was last out of Contract

 

[OniAu]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

While everything that you've said is probably true, you don't trade young guys who've shown that they're good enough and have an energy, intensity and work ethic like Blair does. His heart and soul attitude is necessary for a club.

spot on , see josh kennedy at the eagles for a great example.

you just dont trade young talent thats proven in a handful of games that they can handle the afl level. even on the basis "they may not improve"

its like sayign selwood in his first season of the cats was tradeable on the basis he was in a flying side so he may not be any good in the future, atrocious reasoning to get knights to the club.

 

[OniAu]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

Christ, if there's any truth to this at all, we should ignore Pavlich (going to stay anyway) and Knights (over priced) and go for Mundy.

Mundy would be considered a star if he played in Victoria, he is one of the main reasons why Freo are going so well.

I doubt it's true though, Freo would throw big money at him you would think, although they have a heap of players they just signed up to long term deals.

I'd take Mundy tomorrow, would slot straight in as Pendles partner in the midfield rotation. e.g. Pendles goes out, Mundy comes in etc etc.

agree id go mundy over those two aswell, his abilty around the clearances is probably something else we could add to our midfield, seems to burst through the middle and slot it inside 50 with ease.

 

[mattys123]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

We are again being linked with Chris Tarrant for a 2011 return to Melbourne.

I really don't get this, the last thing we need is a 30 year old, injury prone part time defender with off field problems.

I seriously hope we aren't even considering Tarrant, I see no future in him past this year, let alone 2011 onwards.

 

[The Panther]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

I seriously hope we aren't even considering Tarrant, I see no future in him past this year, let alone 2011 onwards.

Like McLean, Carlton will overpay the odds for Tazz.

 

[1eye]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

A question for all the rumour lovers- How many of you knew that Luke Ball wanted to come to the pies by July 2009? Answer Zero.

 

[Bay Pie]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

A question for all the rumour lovers- How many of you knew that Luke Ball wanted to come to the pies by July 2009? Answer Zero.

Yes, but at the end of September 2009, I was sure he'd be asking for a trade.

 

[danielnajdek]

Re: Stars on the loose - Knights / Pav to Collingwood?

So we're gonna get Mundy and Knights. We're gonna be unbeatable next year.

Seriously we're most likely not gonna get either of them. Our name just gets mentioned so they get a little bit of extra money.