Sydney… the biggest club in the land??

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I was impressed at the amount of people who attended a game at the SCG a few years ago, was packed.

They'll need to play at a far larger stadium though if they want to be the 'biggest' club in Australia.

Also, he might be overestimating the support level by not considering Sydney's population dynamic. Heaps of immigrants in the inner suburbs who don't follow AFL whilst local Australians leave Sydney for cheaper places.
 

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The 747 said:
There are lots of different ways to measure biggest club.

Memberships
Revenue
Attendance
Performance
Awareness
Ratings

Sydney has heaps of people who are aware of the club and perhaps follow it through the season (given how big Sydney is).
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Last time Sydney came out with this, it was a poll which deduced Sydney had something like 1.2 million supporters, because they're the biggest club in the biggest city, so they 'assumed' Sydney had that amount of supporters.

No doubt they'd have a lot but many of that estimated number would be very casual. Overall membership figures would provide a far better baseline to guess from.

They are doing very well as a club though and when I lived in Sydney for a while, it surprised me the amount of people who followed AFL over League, so it's definitely making inroads in the inner suburbs.
 
bzparkes said:
I was impressed at the amount of people who attended a game at the SCG a few years ago, was packed.

They'll need to play at a far larger stadium though if they want to be the 'biggest' club in Australia.

Also, he might be overestimating the support level by not considering Sydney's population dynamic. Heaps of immigrants in the inner suburbs who don't follow AFL whilst local Australians leave Sydney for cheaper places.
Click to expand...

They dont even go anywhere near filling the stadium they have, let alone a bigger one. If you are going to measure a club based off how big they are by attendance, Swans are no way near the top.

Swans AVG HALF the crowds that Collingwood did to home games in 2023. And ground capacity is not the issue why.

The SCG seats approx. 48K and Swans avg home crowd was somewhere near 33,000 in 2023.

If you asked people in Sydney who they support, and they will probably say the Swans because Sydney has 5 million people and 2 teams, if that support doesn't turn into a membership or attendance at the game. it's kinda completely irrelevant.

Like stated before there are a million ways you can measure how big a club is. most people will skew the data to project what they want to see. The real data stream for what defines a big club is their attendance to games, and their membership numbers. Thats what actually matters.

To Pridham's point, Swans could be the biggest club one day, just as any club could be? Is it inevitable? wouldn't say that at all.
 
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HirdsTheWord said:
They dont even go anywhere near filling the stadium they have, let alone a bigger one. If you are going to measure a club based off how big they are by attendance, Swans are no way near the top.

Swans AVG HALF the crowds that Collingwood did to home games in 2023. And ground capacity is not the issue why.

The SCG seats approx. 48K and Swans avg home crowd was somewhere near 33,000 in 2023.

If you asked people in Sydney who they support, and they will probably say the Swans because Sydney has 5 million people and 2 teams, if that support doesn't turn into a membership or attendance at the game. it's kinda completely irrelevant.

Like stated before there are a million ways you can measure how big a club is. most people will skew the data to project what they want to see. The real data stream for what defines a big club is their attendance to games, and their membership numbers. Thats what actually matters.
Click to expand...

Both of those are kinda flawed on their own. Memberships differ by type and amount from club to club (and whether pets are allowed as members). Membership revenue would be better.

Attendance to games is influenced heavily by access to priority time slots and stand alone games etc. Some clubs even though they perform poorly on field get a much better run than other clubs.
 
The 747 said:
Both of those are kinda flawed on their own. Memberships differ by type and amount from club to club (and whether pets are allowed as members). Membership revenue would be better.

Attendance to games is influenced heavily by access to priority time slots and stand alone games etc. Some clubs even though they perform poorly on field get a much better run than other clubs.
Click to expand...

sure, there are nuances to it. And it changes year to year to most degrees.

You'd be hard pressed though arguing that Collingwood is not the "biggest club" right now. highest avg attendance along with the highest membership numbers.

There are also few power kegs in the AFL, if Carlton or Essendon jag a premiership, those fan bases will ignite into massive numbers. Same thing when Richmond won in 2017, utterly exploded. Just how it goes.
 
HirdsTheWord said:
They dont even go anywhere near filling the stadium they have, let alone a bigger one. If you are going to measure a club based off how big they are by attendance, Swans are no way near the top.

Swans AVG HALF the crowds that Collingwood did to home games in 2023. And ground capacity is not the issue why.

The SCG seats approx. 48K and Swans avg home crowd was somewhere near 33,000 in 2023.

If you asked people in Sydney who they support, and they will probably say the Swans because Sydney has 5 million people and 2 teams, if that support doesn't turn into a membership or attendance at the game. it's kinda completely irrelevant.

Like stated before there are a million ways you can measure how big a club is. most people will skew the data to project what they want to see. The real data stream for what defines a big club is their attendance to games, and their membership numbers. Thats what actually matters.

To Pridham's point, Swans could be the biggest club one day, just as any club could be? Is it inevitable? wouldn't say that at all.
Click to expand...
Pretty good attendance for a team in Rugby 'heartland' though.

Your point about asking people in Sydney who they support is indeed what I was alluding tod.

Sydney could be the biggest club in Australia at some point but personally, I don't ever see it happening and there's nothing wrong with that.

They've definitely made people in Sydney start getting into the AFL a lot more, which is all that's required from them from a purely commercial POV.
 
bzparkes said:
Pretty good attendance for a team in Rugby 'heartland' though.

Your point about asking people in Sydney who they support is indeed what I was alluding tod.

Sydney could be the biggest club in Australia at some point but personally, I don't ever see it happening and there's nothing wrong with that.

They've definitely made people in Sydney start getting into the AFL a lot more, which is all that's required from them from a purely commercial POV.
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Not disputing the swans are a solid club., they are. No dispute there.

Club is well run and its often successful which is largely why they have very solid membership numbers and attendance.

BUT - that doesn't give it gravy points. You are either the biggest club or you aren't, which they aren't and by a fair margin.

Could they get there one day? Maybe, but it's not something that looks on any type of horizon.
 
HirdsTheWord said:
sure, there are nuances to it. And it changes year to year to most degrees.

You'd be hard pressed though arguing that Collingwood is not the "biggest club" right now. highest avg attendance along with the highest membership numbers.

There are also few power kegs also in the AFL, if Carlton or Essendon jag a premiership, those fan bases will ignite into massive numbers. Same thing when Richmond won in 2017, utterly exploded. Just how it goes.
Click to expand...

Well, I think capacity and scheduling influences attendances. Collingwood play 14-15 games at a 100K stadium, which also makes them more likely to play finals at said stadium, and those games are in high priority spots and at times on standalone days.

It would be out of Collingwood and West Coast IMO. If you measured by casual awareness Sydney would be up there but not on other metrics.
 

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The 747 said:
Well, I think capacity and scheduling influences attendances. Collingwood play 14-15 games at a 100K stadium, which also makes them more likely to play finals at said stadium, and those games are in high priority spots and at times on standalone days.

It would be out of Collingwood and West Coast IMO. If you measured by casual awareness Sydney would be up there but not on other metrics.
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it doesn't matter if most of their games are at the MCG that's why i only talked about HOME games, the fact is Collingwood fans go to their home game in massive numbers.

That argument would only make sense if a club like the swans were limited by their seating capacity at their home games. Which they aren't - they do not go anywhere near filling out the SCG.

The fact Collingwood can DOUBLE the swans AVG home attendance, in a completely saturated Melbourne market is quite telling.

West cost is definitely up there mind you. Youd be arguing fine nuances between them and Collingwood.
 
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bzparkes said:
Last time Sydney came out with this, it was a poll which deduced Sydney had something like 1.2 million supporters, because they're the biggest club in the biggest city, so they 'assumed' Sydney had that amount of supporters.

No doubt they'd have a lot but many of that estimated number would be very casual. Overall membership figures would provide a far better baseline to guess from.

They are doing very well as a club though and when I lived in Sydney for a while, it surprised me the amount of people who followed AFL over League, so it's definitely making inroads in the inner suburbs.
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It wasn't an assumption but a survey
 
HirdsTheWord said:
it doesn't matter if most of their games are at the MCG that's why i only talked about HOME games, the fact is Collingwood fans go to their home game in massive numbers.

That argument would only make sense if a club like the swans were limited by their seating capacity at their home games. Which they aren't - they do not go anywhere near filling out the SCG.

The fact Collingwood can DOUBLE the swans AVG home attendance, in a completely saturated Melbourne market is quite telling.

West cost is definitely up there mind you. Youd be arguing fine nuances between them and Collingwood.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Nah.

Who are they fixtured against, in what time slots and in what days?

And MCG does matter, people are creatures of habit, a Pies supporter knows they can go to the MCG 14-15 times a year to see their team play.
 
HirdsTheWord said:
Not disputing the swans are a solid club., they are. No dispute there.

Club is well run and its often successful which is largely why they have very solid membership numbers and attendance.

BUT - that doesn't give it gravy points. You are either the biggest club or you aren't, which they aren't and by a fair margin.

Could they get there one day? Maybe, but it's not something that looks on any type of horizon.
Click to expand...
If you read the OP, the whole point of it is that Sydney is in the box seat to become the biggest club in the land in the FUTURE.
Given the population base they feed from and growing AFL support in NSW, it's not an unreasonable expectation.
 
Scritchyscroony said:
If you read the OP, the whole point of it is that Sydney is in the box seat to become the biggest club in the land in the FUTURE.
Given the population base they feed from and growing AFL support in NSW, it's not an unreasonable expectation.
Click to expand...

HirdsTheWord said:
Not disputing the swans are a solid club., they are. No dispute there.

Club is well run and its often successful which is largely why they have very solid membership numbers and attendance.

BUT - that doesn't give it gravy points. You are either the biggest club or you aren't, which they aren't and by a fair margin.

Could they get there one day? Maybe, but it's not something that looks on any type of horizon.
Click to expand...

umm ok?
 
bzparkes said:
Last time Sydney came out with this, it was a poll which deduced Sydney had something like 1.2 million supporters, because they're the biggest club in the biggest city, so they 'assumed' Sydney had that amount of supporters.

No doubt they'd have a lot but many of that estimated number would be very casual. Overall membership figures would provide a far better baseline to guess from.

They are doing very well as a club though and when I lived in Sydney for a while, it surprised me the amount of people who followed AFL over League, so it's definitely making inroads in the inner suburbs.
Click to expand...
I think you're referring to this.

1708059147683.png
 

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Sydney… the biggest club in the land??

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