Autopsy Sydney Legacy in Grand Finals continues 10 goal loss to the Lions

[Crust]

I wish we had another game, so I can hold up a sign saying "soft".
Hopefully the cheer squad will open next year with
"2024 soft as butter
But that doesn't define us"

Either way a collective kick up the arse by the supporters.

Maybe we should all attend the first SCG game and hold up "2024 soft" signs. If there are several hundred, they may just get the message we are livid.

 

[caesar88]

Only two teams have won the premiership from outside the top four this century and they were both against us.

Horse can go

 

[The King!]

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Only two teams have won the premiership from outside the top four this century and they were both against us.

Horse can go

That is indeed Grim again we keep running into these teams that have some fairytale 4 weeks of football.

Like :/

 

[ShireSwan]

New T-shirt just dropped in the Swans Shop

 

[caesar88]

LONG POST INCOMING

I want to talk about our midfield spread. And no I'm not talking about Isaac Heeney

5

Isaac Heeney

Age

28

Ht

185cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

4.9

5star

T

4.1

5star

CL

2.2

4star

D

14.3

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

5.5

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

0.8

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.8

3star

's topless editorial for Mens Health.

Rewatching this absolute shit-fest for the last of my first possession stat entries (thank god for the skip button so I can just fast forward to each stoppage!!), it has just reinforced to me how we have quality not quantity when it comes to inside midfielders.

Much discussion about how we got belted in the contest. That is true to some extent. But our first possessions here are actually good from what I've seen. It's mainly Grundy and Rowbottom doing a lot of the heavy lifting in this regard (aware that Heeney was injured and was basically a non-factor), and minus a few yucky dump kicks and blind handballs to nobody from Grundy, they're having good, clean clearances that are getting to the player they want to get the ball to.

That is the problem though - It's that second player receiving the ball where things are coming undone.

Most of the clearances are going to a Gulden or a Warner or a McInerney or a Florent or a Lloyd, as you'd hope and expect, but then those players are just inexplicably fumbling, getting caught or worked off the footy, not able to dispose of it in tackles, running into trouble or taking the wrong option, not being in the right position in the first place etc. because they aren't on the outside, they're playing close and in tight, and we're turning it over in the post-clearance time and time again.

In other words, the spread ain't spreadin'.

Brisbane on the other hand have about four blokes at every contest who are tough and hard and strong, not phased by our pressure "efforts." They're just feeding it out handball by handball until they get it to the true outside, and that is where they are getting their run and gun going that makes us look like we were half asleep.

I'm reminded of our old midfield, with JPK, Hanners, Parker, Jack & Mitchell. They used to be so effective at getting it from inside to outside using each other, given they didn't have the plethora of outside options around them that we currently do. God knows they weren't fast and they struggled to stop other teams' spread, which was part of our undoing in the 2016 GF. But they all worked so well together and they could actually string 2 or 3 possessions together and get the ball from point A to point B to point C because they were all similarly skilful players, so they were good at the spread.

Because we're tilted so heavily towards outside running players not overly suited to the contest, our inside mids are getting the ball to those outside players but those outside players aren't actually outside the contest. If that makes sense. One possession isn't getting it from the inside to the outside. You generally need two or three possessions to get it from the inside to the outside, and they're usually contested ones. So we need to have players who can get more out of these second and third possessions.

We simply have to get a second string of proper inside mids so that guys like Heeney and Rowbottom have guys they can actually work with. Their inside skills are awesome, but they have no one who can match them. Unless they are feeding it out to each other, you can place a bet on a Swans player managing to stuff up and fail to capitalise on the clearance given to them because it's some player not used to working in a telephone box.

Over to you, Mills, Sheldrick or Cleary (and Horse & co, to select them.)

 

[Stu1961]

LONG POST INCOMING

I want to talk about our midfield spread. And no I'm not talking about Isaac Heeney's topless editorial for Mens Health.

Rewatching this absolute shit-fest for the last of my first possession stat entries (thank god for the skip button so I can just fast forward to each stoppage!!), it has just reinforced to me how we have quality not quantity when it comes to inside midfielders.

Much discussion about how we got belted in the contest. That is true to some extent. But our first possessions here are actually good from what I've seen. It's mainly Grundy and Rowbottom doing a lot of the heavy lifting in this regard (aware that Heeney was injured and was basically a non-factor), and minus a few yucky dump kicks and blind handballs to nobody from Grundy, they're having good, clean clearances that are getting to the player they want to get the ball to.

That is the problem though - It's that second player receiving the ball where things are coming undone.

Most of the clearances are going to a Gulden or a Warner or a McInerney or a Florent or a Lloyd, as you'd hope and expect, but then those players are just inexplicably fumbling, getting caught or worked off the footy, not able to dispose of it in tackles, running into trouble or taking the wrong option, not being in the right position in the first place etc. because they aren't on the outside, they're playing close and in tight, and we're turning it over in the post-clearance time and time again.

In other words, the spread ain't spreadin'.

Brisbane on the other hand have about four blokes at every contest who are tough and hard and strong, not phased by our pressure "efforts." They're just feeding it out handball by handball until they get it to the true outside, and that is where they are getting their run and gun going that makes us look like we were half asleep.

I'm reminded of our old midfield, with JPK, Hanners, Parker, Jack & Mitchell. They used to be so effective at getting it from inside to outside using each other, given they didn't have the plethora of outside options around them that we currently do. God knows they weren't fast and they struggled to stop other teams' spread, which was part of our undoing in the 2016 GF. But they all worked so well together and they could actually string 2 or 3 possessions together and get the ball from point A to point B to point C because they were all similarly skilful players, so they were good at the spread.

Because we're tilted so heavily towards outside running players not overly suited to the contest, our inside mids are getting the ball to those outside players but those outside players aren't actually outside the contest. If that makes sense. One possession isn't getting it from the inside to the outside. You generally need two or three possessions to get it from the inside to the outside, and they're usually contested ones. So we need to have players who can get more out of these second and third possessions.

We simply have to get a second string of proper inside mids so that guys like Heeney and Rowbottom have guys they can actually work with. Their inside skills are awesome, but they have no one who can match them. Unless they are feeding it out to each other, you can place a bet on a Swans player managing to stuff up and fail to capitalise on the clearance given to them because it's some player not used to working in a telephone box.

Over to you, Mills, Sheldrick or Cleary (and Horse & co, to select them.)

At the end of the day we keep getting smashed in the middle It’s been obvious for seasons now And here we are still stating the bleeding obvious

 

[bedford]

LONG POST INCOMING

I want to talk about our midfield spread. And no I'm not talking about Isaac Heeney's topless editorial for Mens Health.

Rewatching this absolute shit-fest for the last of my first possession stat entries (thank god for the skip button so I can just fast forward to each stoppage!!), it has just reinforced to me how we have quality not quantity when it comes to inside midfielders.

Much discussion about how we got belted in the contest. That is true to some extent. But our first possessions here are actually good from what I've seen. It's mainly Grundy and Rowbottom doing a lot of the heavy lifting in this regard (aware that Heeney was injured and was basically a non-factor), and minus a few yucky dump kicks and blind handballs to nobody from Grundy, they're having good, clean clearances that are getting to the player they want to get the ball to.

That is the problem though - It's that second player receiving the ball where things are coming undone.

Most of the clearances are going to a Gulden or a Warner or a McInerney or a Florent or a Lloyd, as you'd hope and expect, but then those players are just inexplicably fumbling, getting caught or worked off the footy, not able to dispose of it in tackles, running into trouble or taking the wrong option, not being in the right position in the first place etc. because they aren't on the outside, they're playing close and in tight, and we're turning it over in the post-clearance time and time again.

In other words, the spread ain't spreadin'.

Brisbane on the other hand have about four blokes at every contest who are tough and hard and strong, not phased by our pressure "efforts." They're just feeding it out handball by handball until they get it to the true outside, and that is where they are getting their run and gun going that makes us look like we were half asleep.

I'm reminded of our old midfield, with JPK, Hanners, Parker, Jack & Mitchell. They used to be so effective at getting it from inside to outside using each other, given they didn't have the plethora of outside options around them that we currently do. God knows they weren't fast and they struggled to stop other teams' spread, which was part of our undoing in the 2016 GF. But they all worked so well together and they could actually string 2 or 3 possessions together and get the ball from point A to point B to point C because they were all similarly skilful players, so they were good at the spread.

Because we're tilted so heavily towards outside running players not overly suited to the contest, our inside mids are getting the ball to those outside players but those outside players aren't actually outside the contest. If that makes sense. One possession isn't getting it from the inside to the outside. You generally need two or three possessions to get it from the inside to the outside, and they're usually contested ones. So we need to have players who can get more out of these second and third possessions.

We simply have to get a second string of proper inside mids so that guys like Heeney and Rowbottom have guys they can actually work with. Their inside skills are awesome, but they have no one who can match them. Unless they are feeding it out to each other, you can place a bet on a Swans player managing to stuff up and fail to capitalise on the clearance given to them because it's some player not used to working in a telephone box.

Over to you, Mills, Sheldrick or Cleary (and Horse & co, to select them.)

Rubber88

 

[Kiama Chris]

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

At the end of the day we keep getting smashed in the middle It’s been obvious for seasons now And here we are still stating the bleeding obvious

For it to be the ‘bleeding obvious’ would mean the coach knew what went wrong. He still doesn’t know, his words not mine.

#membershipsoverpremierships

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

LONG POST INCOMING

I want to talk about our midfield spread. And no I'm not talking about Isaac Heeney's topless editorial for Mens Health.

Rewatching this absolute shit-fest for the last of my first possession stat entries (thank god for the skip button so I can just fast forward to each stoppage!!), it has just reinforced to me how we have quality not quantity when it comes to inside midfielders.

Much discussion about how we got belted in the contest. That is true to some extent. But our first possessions here are actually good from what I've seen. It's mainly Grundy and Rowbottom doing a lot of the heavy lifting in this regard (aware that Heeney was injured and was basically a non-factor), and minus a few yucky dump kicks and blind handballs to nobody from Grundy, they're having good, clean clearances that are getting to the player they want to get the ball to.

That is the problem though - It's that second player receiving the ball where things are coming undone.

Most of the clearances are going to a Gulden or a Warner or a McInerney or a Florent or a Lloyd, as you'd hope and expect, but then those players are just inexplicably fumbling, getting caught or worked off the footy, not able to dispose of it in tackles, running into trouble or taking the wrong option, not being in the right position in the first place etc. because they aren't on the outside, they're playing close and in tight, and we're turning it over in the post-clearance time and time again.

In other words, the spread ain't spreadin'.

Brisbane on the other hand have about four blokes at every contest who are tough and hard and strong, not phased by our pressure "efforts." They're just feeding it out handball by handball until they get it to the true outside, and that is where they are getting their run and gun going that makes us look like we were half asleep.

I'm reminded of our old midfield, with JPK, Hanners, Parker, Jack & Mitchell. They used to be so effective at getting it from inside to outside using each other, given they didn't have the plethora of outside options around them that we currently do. God knows they weren't fast and they struggled to stop other teams' spread, which was part of our undoing in the 2016 GF. But they all worked so well together and they could actually string 2 or 3 possessions together and get the ball from point A to point B to point C because they were all similarly skilful players, so they were good at the spread.

Because we're tilted so heavily towards outside running players not overly suited to the contest, our inside mids are getting the ball to those outside players but those outside players aren't actually outside the contest. If that makes sense. One possession isn't getting it from the inside to the outside. You generally need two or three possessions to get it from the inside to the outside, and they're usually contested ones. So we need to have players who can get more out of these second and third possessions.

We simply have to get a second string of proper inside mids so that guys like Heeney and Rowbottom have guys they can actually work with. Their inside skills are awesome, but they have no one who can match them. Unless they are feeding it out to each other, you can place a bet on a Swans player managing to stuff up and fail to capitalise on the clearance given to them because it's some player not used to working in a telephone box.

Over to you, Mills, Sheldrick or Cleary (and Horse & co, to select them.)

In rugby, they say you need to go forward before you can go wide. Same philosophy here. Gotta do the hard stuff to create the time and space.

It makes sense then that we struggled when oppositions were fresh and could punish us with pressure for going outside too early, and then as they tired we could actually hurt then quite quickly.

We just need to develop that contest-first game plan and we can have a good crack. Those players you mention should help. Even just bringing in Mills for Warner will make a huge difference.

One final note, and maybe wishful thinking, but perhaps Warner becomes Hawthorne’s buddy. Very talented and amazing highlights, but the team performs better when he is not the central show. Let’s hope we win a premiership or two with Chad while forging a game plan that makes him non-crucial, then trade to another team (hopefully for better than pick 19!) that ends up overpaying for his services and makes him too central to their game plan.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I dont see anything changing in 2025 we had the almost perfect season what more could you ask for having your first choice ruck and trio of midfield available nearly all season.

Ridiculous to go into 2025 with positive aspirations but as fans we will and again when pre-season begins (its nearly November) we will again all get sucked into the hope of 2025.

This group would have to defy history are they capable of being that mentally tough? not even remotely close on evidence so far.

 

[caesar88]

In rugby, they say you need to go forward before you can go wide. Same philosophy here. Gotta do the hard stuff to create the time and space.

It makes sense then that we struggled when oppositions were fresh and could punish us with pressure for going outside too early, and then as they tired we could actually hurt then quite quickly.

We just need to develop that contest-first game plan and we can have a good crack. Those players you mention should help. Even just bringing in Mills for Warner will make a huge difference.

One final note, and maybe wishful thinking, but perhaps Warner becomes Hawthorne’s buddy. Very talented and amazing highlights, but the team performs better when he is not the central show. Let’s hope we win a premiership or two with Chad while forging a game plan that makes him non-crucial, then trade to another team (hopefully for better than pick 19!) that ends up overpaying for his services and makes him too central to their game plan.

I couldn't agree more with everything you said, especially about Warner. There is not one fibre of my being that doesn't think we'll be absolutely fine if Warner were to leave. Overrated AF.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I couldn't agree more with everything you said, especially about Warner. There is not one fibre of my being that doesn't think we'll be absolutely fine if Warner were to leave. Overrated AF.

Wowzers not even remotely accurate mate probably one of your worst calls.

 

[SeanM]

I wonder whether our tactical approach was due to how we beat Port Adelaide by punishing them on turnover.

Maybe we expected Brisbane to play a run and handball game through the midfield. So we tried to focus on having numbers zonally around the ball to try to turn it over and score. But we just end up with loose players everywhere.

Though I think the repeat goals at the end of the 2nd quarter was a different issue. It felt like we were not able to grind it out and hang in there.

 

[caesar88]

Wowzers not even remotely accurate mate probably one of your worst calls.

Maybe I should've said it in the safety of the unpopular opinions thread

 

[SeanM]

I think having a Warner style player who can score heavily when the team is playing well is still useful to have. I think it is just getting the balance right with the rest of the team.

Even Blakey our most dangerous attacking player out of the backline is starting to get targeted and exposed defensively at times when he has to play as an accountable defender. I wonder if we need to select another defensive player so we can shift Blakey to wing for brief periods if he starts struggling defensively.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I think having a Warner style player who can score heavily when the team is playing well is still useful to have. I think it is just getting the balance right with the rest of the team.

Even Blakey our most dangerous attacking player out of the backline is starting to get targeted and exposed defensively at times when he has to play as an accountable defender. I wonder if we need to select another defensive player so we can shift Blakey to wing for brief periods if he starts struggling defensively.

I would prefer to have a strong defensive 7 so he is less likely to be held heavily accountable. That's why I'm hoping that Edwards comes on so that he and Melican can lock down and McCartin intercept while taking the third tall. Harry for the small with Rampe and Roberts as the mediums.
That way Blakey only has to do short stints as an accountable defender at most with McCartin relieving Melican and Edwards. Fingers crossed.
Hopefully when Rampe retires Snell is ready.
Mills I would much prefer to be playing midfield.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I think having a Warner style player who can score heavily when the team is playing well is still useful to have. I think it is just getting the balance right with the rest of the team.

Even Blakey our most dangerous attacking player out of the backline is starting to get targeted and exposed defensively at times when he has to play as an accountable defender. I wonder if we need to select another defensive player so we can shift Blakey to wing for brief periods if he starts struggling defensively.

Absolutely Warner is a big plus for the team.

Someone previously put it well, he should be the icing on the cake (well in my mind mostly icing and a little bit cake).

I think a 1.5 million player (as I have heard touted) needs to be able to be equal parts cakes and icing - basically prime Heeney. Maybe Warner will get there, but he seems better suited to be as a HF who runs through stoppages for quick bursts.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

I feel as though if Warner focused on being a defensive player, he'd be an even bigger gun than he is now. He's a naturally attacking player, and can do a lot of damage with very little opportunity afforded to him. If he were to amp up his pressure and defence a little bit, he'd even have more opportunity to attack.

I'm not saying a complete shift, but just a bit of a more defensive flavour to his game and he could even take his lofty standards to the next level.

It would also help him impact the game irrespective of if we're attacking or defending.

 

[rustycrate]

I wish we had another game, so I can hold up a sign saying "soft".
Hopefully the cheer squad will open next year with
"2024 soft as butter
But that doesn't define us"

Either way a collective kick up the arse by the supporters.

Maybe we should all attend the first SCG game and hold up "2024 soft" signs. If there are several hundred, they may just get the message we are livid.

That is not the Swans way. Degrading your team from the sideline. If you want to do that then give up your membership and announce you won't support the team anymore.

That way you are free to express your opinion knowing you are not a true supporter.

 

[Bloods86]

That is not the Swans way. Degrading your team from the sideline. If you want to do that then give up your membership and announce you won't support the team anymore.

That way you are free to express your opinion knowing you are not a true supporter.

Hopefully the club addresses things so supporters don't feel like they have to.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Hopefully the club addresses things so supporters don't feel like they have to.

Its up to the players to want it enough as well mate

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Based on our recent performances we dont deserve another chance.

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

As the weeks tick by and my anger keeps growing, this out of all the losses was the worst by far.

Literally everything and I mean everything went our way this year. Injuries, being well rested, playing teams before they hit their peak, the draw, even the umpiring was close to breakeven.

Doesn’t get easier than this, all we had to do was show up for each other for 1 match only.

Whilst coaching and selection was abominable for the GF, the players were way worse.

And I’ve seen nothing yet from either coaches or players that they care enough about changing things.

It’s bizarre. This game won’t define us equals who cares if we win or lose or better luck next time. I mean we will go down being defined as the worst GF performers of the modern era, that is how we are being defined atm. How they don’t see this inside their bubble is most peculiar.

If I could see they were down, upset, angry and gave 2 hoots, I wouldn’t be so angry. The lack of any response from the club is infuriating me the most.

Happy weekend!