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- #2,101
I think Lohman will end up having a decent career, but yer its quite unbelieveable how bottom 6 players of each respective teams play some of the best games ever against us.
Autopsy Sydney Legacy in Grand Finals continues 10 goal loss to the Lions
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I think Lohman will end up having a decent career, but yer its quite unbelieveable how bottom 6 players of each respective teams play some of the best games ever against us.
I think Lohman is going to be a very good player, if he isn't already, but I still think it is ridiculous that he and Ah Chee and others were just doing what every they wanted in the forward 50 against supposedly good defenders.
I know Rayner is a solid player (slow burner but he developed okay), but I cant get him taking speccies on our backline out of my head. If there was one passage of play I still remember that was the one. Summed up the day as well.
Even Lohmann and Ah Chee looked like world beaters. Ah Chee was beating our backline in a 1 on 1 sprint. LOL
Even Lohmann and Ah Chee looked like world beaters. Ah Chee was beating our backline in a 1 on 1 sprint. LOL
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- #2,104
Thats will/determination every player is able to do that.
Only one team did it for 2hrs.
Rayner is a inconsistent B grader certainly has the potential for more however just 2 weeks prior played one of the worst finals game i have ever seen.
- Apr 26, 2016
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- #2,106
Our game plan is about scoring from turnovers with either an open, free-flowing, running game or using our elite foot skills to possess the ball and transition via those kicks.
Problem is... when has a grand final ever been about outside run or elite kicking? Not being hyperbolic, you can go back through every grand final in recent memory and they're crazy congested, highly defensive, highly pressured scraps where players have to make something out of nothing. Hell, go back to 2012 GF and the reason two of the standout moments were Jetta's run and Reid's goal is because they were pretty much the only moments in the whole game where someone could carry the ball about 50m with speed, or where a team could go end to end with uncontested kicks and marks.
Clearance dominance in the contest, elite pressure inside 50, and strong team defence are things that hold up a lot more in GFs than the ball movement and precision kicking we love, that looks great but is incredibly flimsy under pressure/against any decent opposition defensive structure. The entire way we play is exciting and can flog teams but is just fundamentally not suited to grand finals.
This also plays into team selection though. Pretty much everyone who has ever played in a GF, from Luke Hodge to Leigh Montagna, has said that it's unlike any other game or final you'll play in. The time and space you have is noticeably different in grand finals. It's therefore not a stretch to assume that players who are used to having time and space may struggle to adjust to the intensity of a grand final.
When you pick almost half the team - Warner, Hayward, Florent, Campbell, Jordon, Gulden, Blakey, McInerney, Roberts and Lloyd - with players mainly suited to having that time and space, it is not surprising they struggle. They could turn up to the MCG in the perfect frame of mind for a grand final and they would still get whacked in the face by the intensity of the game. That's when panic sets in and becomes infectious, and once one team is panicking and their opposition knows it, it's good night Irene.
Look at the types of players who've performed well in our GF beltings over the years... JPK in 2014, Fox in 2022, Rowbottom this year...
Problem is... when has a grand final ever been about outside run or elite kicking? Not being hyperbolic, you can go back through every grand final in recent memory and they're crazy congested, highly defensive, highly pressured scraps where players have to make something out of nothing. Hell, go back to 2012 GF and the reason two of the standout moments were Jetta's run and Reid's goal is because they were pretty much the only moments in the whole game where someone could carry the ball about 50m with speed, or where a team could go end to end with uncontested kicks and marks.
Clearance dominance in the contest, elite pressure inside 50, and strong team defence are things that hold up a lot more in GFs than the ball movement and precision kicking we love, that looks great but is incredibly flimsy under pressure/against any decent opposition defensive structure. The entire way we play is exciting and can flog teams but is just fundamentally not suited to grand finals.
This also plays into team selection though. Pretty much everyone who has ever played in a GF, from Luke Hodge to Leigh Montagna, has said that it's unlike any other game or final you'll play in. The time and space you have is noticeably different in grand finals. It's therefore not a stretch to assume that players who are used to having time and space may struggle to adjust to the intensity of a grand final.
When you pick almost half the team - Warner, Hayward, Florent, Campbell, Jordon, Gulden, Blakey, McInerney, Roberts and Lloyd - with players mainly suited to having that time and space, it is not surprising they struggle. They could turn up to the MCG in the perfect frame of mind for a grand final and they would still get whacked in the face by the intensity of the game. That's when panic sets in and becomes infectious, and once one team is panicking and their opposition knows it, it's good night Irene.
Look at the types of players who've performed well in our GF beltings over the years... JPK in 2014, Fox in 2022, Rowbottom this year...
- Oct 17, 2016
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I think what is also frustrating is that things went our way initially. Lions missed a lot of chances at the start of both quarters. And yet we end up kicking the first two goals of the game.
I was hoping if we could kick the third goal, then Lions might start to question themselves mentally. That it would be one of those days where they keep missing easy shots at goal and it plays on their mind.
But it was frustrating to give them their first two easy goals to settle them. And then that goal before quarter time with multiple uncontested marks down the wing.
We were terrible. But I will probably always wonder if certain players had stood up better in key moments in the 1st and 2nd quarter. Whether it could have shifted the trajectory of the game.
I was hoping if we could kick the third goal, then Lions might start to question themselves mentally. That it would be one of those days where they keep missing easy shots at goal and it plays on their mind.
But it was frustrating to give them their first two easy goals to settle them. And then that goal before quarter time with multiple uncontested marks down the wing.
We were terrible. But I will probably always wonder if certain players had stood up better in key moments in the 1st and 2nd quarter. Whether it could have shifted the trajectory of the game.
- Oct 18, 2018
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Add Buddy in 2014.
- Jun 16, 2012
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The fact that this is happened twice now is the killer. There’s no way anyone at the club could be confident heading into a gf from now on. The club is broken
DISCOUNT 22 WE WERE NOT READY
- Nov 11, 2012
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Bullshit excuse to just say discount 22. That’s crap and yiu know it
Effort in 22 was average af to
There professional high paid athletes
To get flogged in 22 and 24 isn’t good enough
Be not ready doesn’t mean you lack effort and the simple basics
The King!
Chosen One
Its not just two times
Its 3 grand final floggings, a 16 blergh, but then also look at our starts in big finals since we won the flag.
last year for instance lost by 6 yeah but we barely scored for a half.
The King!
Chosen One
They played like a spoon side, but they had a chance to show 22 was bullshit, they didn't
I think from now on, Swans fans should put their mental health first and just focus on the Minor Premiership. Looking too deep into September is a recipe for depression.
Horse himself provides the best advice.
Take it one game at a time.
Horse would do well to take advice from George Costanza next time he finds himself coaching a Grand Final.
- Thread starter
- #2,119
I just dont understand how can you not be up for a GF? how can you only lay 40 tackles?
How can just watch your opponent and jog after him?
Every ex-player i hear about the occasion is this is why you play at the highest level for "this is the whole point"
????
How can just watch your opponent and jog after him?
Every ex-player i hear about the occasion is this is why you play at the highest level for "this is the whole point"
????
Which is why the debrief needs to be thorough, honest, brutal where necessary and end in measurable personal commitments.
- Apr 26, 2016
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- #2,122
We were ranked 13th in the competition for tackles this season, averaging 58 tackles a game. That's with the number one tackler in the competition in our team. Take away his average of 8 tackles a game and we average 50 tackles a game, the worst in the comp. Even if you only halve his average, we average 54 tackles a game which would still have us 17th in the comp in front of only Richmond.
And here's how we stack up vs 2012:
Players averaging 4+ tackles a game
2012 - 6
2024 - 3
Players averaging 5+ tackles a game
2012 - 4
2024 - 1
And in the grand final when we notched over 100 tackles, we had 7 different players with 5+ tackles in that game. Impressive, but we'd had that in 9 other games throughout that season as well. This year, we achieved that in just one game, back in the first derby in round 8.
This group simply isn't as good as it thinks it is.
I tend to regard tackle numbers as a rubbish stat.
Most tackles occur at stoppages & we no longer play a stoppage-heavy game.
However…. I find it hard to argue against your final sentence.
- Apr 26, 2016
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This would be true if
1. Grand finals weren't stoppage-heavy games
2. We were any good at tackling outside of stoppages, too.
Clearly neither of these are the case.
I find it hard to consider tackling numbers not an important thing to note when literally every dogshit performance we have put in over the last 2-3 years we have lamented our tackling efforts, or lack thereof.
Tackle numbers in the stoppage are a sign that we're not allowing the Oppo to escape the stoppage if they're getting first hands on, which they will, no matter how well we do. Outside the stoppage they're a sign that our pressure is eventually resulting in a stoppage, a turnover or a free.
The only time they don't matter is if the opposition is turning the ball over willy nilly.
I love a good, fierce tackle that has the opponent looking over his shoulder .
