Toast The Big 4 all getting over a million people through the gate in season 2024

[Taper]

Mate there is no need to justify the difference between the two. One has always been a religion that crosses classes, the other has always been a suburban working class sport which for a long time battled with another similar code for its fan base which drew from the upper class, that even at its peak was built around 20,000 people squeezing into small rectangular stadiums. I have never understood why this is so hard to grasp. As a league tragic I have not seen a need for league to compete or try to justify itself crowd wise against AFL. It doesn’t have the same sort of culture as afl does. Even the idea of membership is totally foreign to most league fans. I have never for one second thought about becoming a member of my league club despite watching them far more regularly in the flesh than the Cats.

Yet tv audiences love the game and it always holds its own.

Broncos always tend to get good crowds regardless of how they're travelling, but I know the culture in Sydney is different and it's nothing like Melbourne where going to the footy is a religion.
However, it doesn't stop AFL fans from bagging the NRL about their crowd numbers.

Not sure which part of my post you're referring to?

And no, I'm not.

The part where you said the AFL has lots of fans who are losers that have not much going on in their lives.
This is what NRL fans tend to say when AFL fans bag the NRL for their crowd numbers.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

The part where you said the AFL has lots of fans who are losers that have not much going on in their lives.
This is what NRL fans tend to say when AFL fans bag the NRL for their crowd numbers.

Oh.

Well, to be fair, they kind of have a point.

 

[PhatBoy]

Oh.

Well, to be fair, they kind of have a point.

Losers is probably not the right way to frame it but i think that the people who follow afl as their primary code live and breathe it and it takes a place in their lives that is disproportionate to where other people probably put their sport. In Australia at least anyway.

That afl has fans who will actually go to every game around the country blows my mind. I know that’s not every fan but that there is a cheer squad who will go to interstate games is out of this world. NRL fans will in 99.9 per cent of cases look at that and just go ‘no way - good luck guys but Nup. I’ve got better things to do.’ The fact that cowboys fans will drive a few hours to watch them is amazing in itself. For Sydney teams’ fans, the odd road trip to Newcastle or Canberra every few years is a big thing.

Im also not sure if this sort of culture exists in Melbourne but there’s also a very social culture around nrl of going to the pub to watch it or gathering to watch it rather than making a big thing of going to the game itself - making it a part of a broader social gathering rather than making the game itself the gathering.

 

[Since 2001]

We nearly drew 1 million with a terrible what a terrible 7 weeks. Will be top 3 next year

 

[Sun_Burn]

You're equal to the big four with all the threads you make. You're either very bored or Chief in disguise.

 

[Handsuper47]

Surely we should be counting finals in the list. Ability to win games, make finals, and drive crowds counts.

Cats and Hawks will go far in front of "the big 4".

We got these numbers while winning the spoon, let's see Hawthorn's crowd numbers in their down years

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sounds like the Hawks would be one of the AFL's power clubs if only they didn't sell home games. Can't have it both ways.

Hawthorn are one of the power clubs in the AFL(and we sell home games), just look at how asset rich we are and the reluctance to need AFL support unlike so many other clubs.

Can absolutely have it both ways.

 

[Hawkk]

Hawthorn are one of the power clubs in the AFL(and we sell home games), just look at how asset rich we are and the reluctance to need AFL support unlike so many other clubs.

Can absolutely have it both ways.

The fans lose

Which is why we have a farcical problem, like in 2024, where 2 member replacement games max out GA at the MCG (Rich and Carl) and the club closes the top deck and herds 30,000 supporters around Docklands (the Lions game)

There is no need for Hawthorn to sell home games anymore - it didn't make sense in 2010, now its just lazy of the administration.

Hawthorn really can't complain about lack of prime time when the AFL FTA networks refuse to telecast 4 of our home games (meaning more off broadway games before and after those games)

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Hawthorn are one of the power clubs in the AFL(and we sell home games), just look at how asset rich we are and the reluctance to need AFL support unlike so many other clubs.

Can absolutely have it both ways.

Question...

What does being a 'power club' get you?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Question...

What does being a 'power club' get you?

It’s got us a more than healthy membership base, the ability to build and own our facilities and to be a consistently successful club for 50+ years that attracts players.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The fans lose

Which is why we have a farcical problem, like in 2024, where 2 member replacement games max out GA at the MCG (Rich and Carl) and the club closes the top deck and herds 30,000 supporters around Docklands (the Lions game)

There is no need for Hawthorn to sell home games anymore - it didn't make sense in 2010, now its just lazy of the administration.

Hawthorn really can't complain about lack of prime time when the AFL FTA networks refuse to telecast 4 of our home games (meaning more off broadway games before and after those games)

The fans don’t lose at all IMO. I couldn’t care much less about how many people turn up to games.

They get to support a club that challenges and wins flags more often than any other side in the comp.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

It’s got us a more than healthy membership base, the ability to build and own our facilities and to be a consistently successful club for 50+ years that attracts players.

So what is the power part though?

Do you mean on-field?

And do you think that having more money than other clubs directly correlates with this?

 

[Hawkk]

The fans don’t lose at all IMO. I couldn’t care much less about how many people turn up to games.

They get to support a club that challenges and wins flags more often than any other side in the comp.

We can agree to disagree.

I would love to see Hawthon become a proper big member / big attendance club. I believe the only thing holding us back from doing that is the 4 games in Tasmania.

From 2009

Hawks win big in Docklands dodge

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

HAWTHORN would not be the membership powerhouse it is today if it had chosen Docklands over the MCG a decade ago, according to former president Ian Dicker.

The Hawks became the first Victorian team this season to sign up more than 50,000 members, an achievement Dicker said would have been unlikely had they chosen Docklands.

"At the time (in 1999) we wanted to see if we could become a big-member and big-crowd club," Dicker said.

"We studied Essendon and saw that they did, and we studied the Kangaroos and saw that they didn't.

"We didn't really know at the time which we would be. But we wanted to give ourselves the best chance to do that. We would never have found that out if we had gone to Docklands.

"We've become a big-member and big-crowd club, and the MCG has played a big part in that."

In the wake of the AFL's bitter standoff with stadium operators, Dicker said the secret deals signed a decade ago had been restrictive for most AFL clubs.

But, he said, Hawthorn had been resourceful enough with its successful foray into Tasmania to play games against non-Victorian clubs.

"The stadium deals were poor when we were discussing it with Docklands and the MCG at the time, and that's one of the reasons we went to Tasmania, to take those poorly attended games there," Dicker said.

"We were going through what the clubs are going through now. We had to pay the MCG to play clubs such as Port Adelaide at the ground.

"The MCG was better in terms of break-even than Docklands was, but we thought there had to be a better way.

"And what (club president) Jeff Kennett and (chief executive) Ian Robson did with the (Tasmanian Government) sponsorship has turned loss-making games into profit-making ones."

Dicker said the choice between the MCG and Docklands had come down to the number of general admission seats at the grounds.

"When we were negotiating with them (Docklands), we could only get about 12,000 seats at normal costs, whereas we could get 35,000 at the MCG," he said.

"It meant we could transfer those people who went from Waverley at the basic entrance price to the MCG for the same deal, and give them a smooth and cost-effective transition.

"I'm sure that we would not have got the development (in crowd support and members) if we had gone to Docklands."

Dicker, who was presented with AFL life membership last week after serving as Hawks president from 1996-2005, said the loss of Waverley as a playing venue had disenfranchised fans in the east.

"It's irrelevant worrying about it now, because the stadium is gone," said Dicker, who was one of the advocates to keep the venue.

"But the arguments were legitimate then. There's about two million people living out in that area who aren't being serviced properly.

"I think they are now probably better serviced in terms of watching football on television, but not in terms of attending games."

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We can agree to disagree.

I would love to see Hawthon become a proper big member / big attendance club. I believe the only thing holding us back from doing that is the 4 games in Tasmania.

From 2009

Hawks win big in Docklands dodge

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

Yeah I know that you have a bit of a thing for attendance, but it doesn’t win you flags.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So what is the power part though?

Do you mean on-field?

And do you think that having more money than other clubs directly correlates with this?

On and off.

We’ve broken membership records for something like 13 of the last 15 years.

We get the equal lowest amount of AFL money of all Vic clubs.

We own our facilities and will be soon in a brand new state of the art $100mill base.

We continually attract players.

We continually turn a profit.

We haven’t gone a decade without a flag since we won our first in 1961.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

On and off.

We’ve broken membership records for something like 13 of the last 15 years.

We get the equal lowest amount of AFL money of all Vic clubs.

We own our facilities and will be soon in a brand new state of the art $100mill base.

We continually attract players.

We continually turn a profit.

We haven’t gone a decade without a flag since we won our first in 1961.

But what power comes from off-field success?

 

[Hawkk]

Yeah I know that you have a bit of a thing for attendance, but it doesn’t win you flags.

Has Launceston helped us win flags though?

The vast majority of games there are near unwatchable. I would have thought maximising the amount of games we play at a venue where we actually play finals probably would - and more MCG games means a more attractive proposition for trade targets.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Has Launceston helped us win flags though?

The vast majority of games there are near unwatchable. I would have thought maximising the amount of games we play at a venue where we actually play finals probably would - and more MCG games means a more attractive proposition for trade targets.

It most definitely has.
Have you seen our win loss record at that ground?

Even if you ignore the amount of money we’ve pulled in by playing games in Tasmania, it would be absolutely perplexing to disregard just how many wins we have collected along the way.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

But what power comes from off-field success?

Is this a serious question?

I quite literally just outlined the answer above for you.

 

[Purple Suit]

It most definitely has.
Have you seen our win loss record at that ground?

Even if you ignore the amount of money, we’ve pulled in by playing games in Tasmania, it would be absolutely perplexing to disregard just how many wins we have collected along the way.

You have a similar setup as Geelong, unique home ground advantage but still access to the G for blockbusters to fill the coffers.

 

[What else we can do]

Has Launceston helped us win flags though?

The vast majority of games there are near unwatchable. I would have thought maximising the amount of games we play at a venue where we actually play finals probably would - and more MCG games means a more attractive proposition for trade targets.

Hawthorn have a foot hold in Tasmania you might risk losing the support base when Tasmania come in by limiting all games to Melbourne.

 

[Purple Suit]

Hawthorn have a foot hold in Tasmania you might risk losing the support base when Tasmania come in by limiting all games to Melbourne.

I think they will lose it anyway. The whole state will switch to the local team and they need to so it has a chance to be profitable.

The 3m a year the Tassie government gives them will be hard to replace, although that will be offset with 3 extra home games with 2-3 times the amount of fans in Melbourne.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Is this a serious question?

I quite literally just outlined the answer above for you.

I didn't read anything regarding power.

Just having money for facilities.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Doesn't 'power club' infer that there's a power to change and influence things?

As far as I can see, the only power in footy comes from drawing massive audiences.

That creates power to the point of being able to work with the AFL to ensure good fixtures. It creates power to the point where the AFL will support you if there's a scandal or a **** up, rather than make an example of you and throw you under the bus.

What other power is there? And what are examples of Hawthorn wielding it?


Having money isn't power. Winning on-field isn't power.

 

[TP86]

We can agree to disagree.

I would love to see Hawthon become a proper big member / big attendance club. I believe the only thing holding us back from doing that is the 4 games in Tasmania.

From 2009

Hawks win big in Docklands dodge

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

I don't think you can underestimate the perception help of four fewer games per season with a sparse MCG or Docklands. Not only was Tasmania a reliable major sponsor that almost auto-renewed such was its benefit, there are now 82 games over 20 years which don't immediately scream 'empty stadium' whenever you see highlights. In one of the Jake Stringer threads there was a highlights package of his 2015 footy and it was alarming and depressing to see how many of the highlights came in front of poor looking crowds at Docklands. Even if the raw number had been bigger playing in Melbourne, the aesthetic of Hawthorn playing in Tasmania against primarily the WA and QLD teams, North and the Bulldogs has helped perception massively.

Never mind that there is a decent chance those 17 games against North and the Dogs may well have been us "home" at Docklands with little chance of the 12-5 record we've enjoyed from playing them in Tassie.