The Black and White Boys

[drummoyne]

Saw this on the main board, thought it should be discussed here..

Im not sure how many of you have heard of the "Black and White Boys" but I was quite surprised at some of the content on their website -

http://theblackandwhiteboys.blogspot.com/

No doubt these guys are passionate Pies supporters but I struggle to agree with some of their requests spelt out in their "Mandate". Some of these include

- No go zones for Police and security in parts of the stadiums. We can police ourselves.

- No go zones for Families. We believe children should not be admitted to all parts of the ground as much for their own safety and benefit.

- No ejections for cheering loudly and enthusiastically. Swearing is a part of the experience- whether it’s deemed ‘racial, personal or derogatory’ by the do-gooders. If you don’t like it **** off.

I know some of the members were kicked out of the cheersquad, probably only adding fuel to the fire. Their passion cannot be questioned though the promotion of fighting/getting pissed at the footy etc. just sends the wrong message IMO. Is is just me or are these guys a little on the extremist side?

 

[didaka]

They're not real supporters in my opinion, and just give the rest of us a bad name.

I go to the footy for the footy, not to intimidate people and abuse players and people and so forth.

 

[Brent24]

How embarrassing, hopefully they get sorted nice and quick.

 

[Soul_Pie]

Football is a family experience as well as an experience for the fanatical supporters. Having certain areas segregated is just completely ridiculous, it's an experience that everyone should share.

I think the kind of people that we're talking about here are the ones who turn up to the footy just to big note themselves and to act tough in front of a crowd. Half of them go to the footy to try and uphold a certain image, they probably don't give a toss about the team, it's just an excuse for them to act like ********s. Racist and deeply personal attacks as well as abusive language and physical violence would not be tolerated in any public environment, why should a footy match be any different?

To answer your question, yes these guys are definitely on the extremist side, and they also strike me as absolute idiots who go to the footy for all the wrong reasons.

 

[mattys123]

And some people actually criticized Eddie for "weeding" morons like this out of the official cheer squad.

These guys, while they are Collingwood supporters, should not be supporter one bit for their approach to football support.

Some of the things they state as their mandate would be laughable if they werent Collingwood supporters.

 

[bucksisbest]

Who cares , they're just disenfranchised and angry. As well as stupid.

Football has become too sanitised and over taken by wowsers, and the over pc. But their views have gone past that point and are uneducated and antagonistic.
Anyone can start a blog.

 

[Rimbaz]

I came on here after seeing this on the main board and am thrilled to see the response of all the above posters . I hope their blog is all talk although I dare say they idolise the English 'Firms' however won't get the rivalry they desire.

 

[Lazyboy]

I came on here after seeing this on the main board and am thrilled to see the response of all the above posters . I hope their blog is all talk although I dare say they idolise the English 'Firms' however won't get the rivalry they desire.

Its sad shit.. I hope they are outed and pissed off from the club somehow.

 

[RobV]

I don't agree with the fighting/being pricks part of their group but they do have some good points, IE:/ there should be a section of the ground that is child-free, because a lot of us like to swear and carry on at the football but we don't like doing it around kids, so we should have an area to do it in.

The game is too soft and you are not even aloud to yell/swear anymore thats why we need a area to do it in.(the MCG has the standing room which fits the bill, nothin at subi).

Just to repeat i DONT agree with these guys, and if they do as they say(get into fights/etc) then they should be punished like any other person would be.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

I don't agree with the fighting/being pricks part of their group but they do have some good points, IE:/ there should be a section of the ground that is child-free, because a lot of us like to swear and carry on at the football but we don't like doing it around kids, so we should have an area to do it in.

The game is too soft and you are not even aloud to yell/swear anymore thats why we need a area to do it in.(the MCG has the standing room which fits the bill, nothin at subi).

Just to repeat i DONT agree with these guys, and if they do as they say(get into fights/etc) then they should be punished like any other person would be.

Just like being drunk in a public place is and has always been against the law, so too is using profanity. So you want the AFL to set aside a place where breaking the law is not only allowed but in fact encouraged by giving them a place in which to do it?

strange ideas some people.

How about learning some social skills and conducting yourself with some dignity and pride and containing your emotions to a more socially acceptable level. Or, failing to do that, cop what the law prescribes.

 

[RobV]

Just like being drunk in a public place is and has always been against the law, so too is using profanity. So you want the AFL to set aside a place where breaking the law is not only allowed but in fact encouraged by giving them a place in which to do it?

strange ideas some people.

How about learning some social skills and conducting yourself with some dignity and pride and containing your emotions to a more socially acceptable level. Or, failing to do that, cop what the law prescribes.

It may be illegal to be drunk in public but it is not illegal to be drunk in a registered drinking establishment, and a football ground would fall under that, they sell you the alcohol and they allow you to drink it in your seat, therefore it is legal.

Its football, there is meant to be emotion in the game, I just want to be able to show that emotion and not have a fear of getting kicked out of the football.

What's a few swear words going to do? I grew up going to WAFL and some Collingwood games at subi and I(or my folks) had no issues with the crowd(this was in the early to late 90's where swearing and drinking wasn't that controlled).

 

[mattys123]

- No go zones for Police and security in parts of the stadiums. We can police ourselves.

- No ejections for cheering loudly and enthusiastically. Swearing is a part of the experience- whether it’s deemed ‘racial, personal or derogatory’ by the do-gooders. If you don’t like it **** off.

These two points stand out from all the rest, and for obvious reasons.

Self policing, are you serious, what, just fight until someone dies or gives up, what a load of bullshit.

And the part about racist comments being deemed unfair by "do-gooders", are they serious? Racism is not tolerated nor should be in any part of society, no matter what the situation or location.

Yes, swearing shouldnt be completely banned, but some self control needs to be practiced, as the odd "you ****ing dickead" or you "sh**head of an umpire" is ok if directed towards those on the field, but it's when these comments become part of "crowd chatter" that violence and problems arise.

Keep all "decent" abuse towards the players and officials on the ground would be a "sensible" guideline, but these guys seem to quite simply just want to "pick fights and get pissed", which would once again just brand the large majority of the Collingwood faithful as similar to them.

And one more thing, it has never happened here, but the AFL has the power to punish a club either financially or premierships point wise for the uncontrolled and unchecked behaviour of a clubs supporters.

I'd hate to think morons like this would cost us a big fine or even premiership points, which has happened overseas.

Hopefully Eddie continues to crack down on the "minority" like these guys and also continues to "educate" some supporters on what is acceptable or not at a sporting event in 2009.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

It may be illegal to be drunk in public but it is not illegal to be drunk in a registered drinking establishment, and a football ground would fall under that, they sell you the alcohol and they allow you to drink it in your seat, therefore it is legal.

They are not allowed to serve you any more alcohol once it is obvious you are affected and they have to get you to vacate the premises. So yes, it is illegal to remain on licenced premises by the law.

How is it that many can have a few drinks, some even get drunk and not cause one bit of trouble, yet others have a few and go totally stupid?

Where is their common sense?

Its football, there is meant to be emotion in the game, I just want to be able to show that emotion and not have a fear of getting kicked out of the football.

So you cant contain yourself to maybe "shit!" you have to launch into a tirade of abuse that is clearly pushing the boundaries that you know exist yet choose to push?

Society can handle 'shit' as a profanity, but the other words, which i use more than I should, but wont in any public place loud enough for everyone to hear is clearly unacceptable by the law.

Why cant you contain yourself to that level? Have you anger management issues? Or do you think that emotion overrides basic human decency? I would have thought the mark of a man is his ability to assess any situation he is in and act accordingly. Not ask that all barriers be removed so he can act like a 5 yo having a tantrum.

What's a few swear words going to do? I grew up going to WAFL and some Collingwood games at subi and I(or my folks) had no issues with the crowd(this was in the early to late 90's where swearing and drinking wasn't that controlled).

Ask the people it offends. just because you dont get offended by them, doesnt mean someone else doesnt. The law is in place to prevent those that might get offended from getting offended. So they remove all interpretation of what is tolerated and place a blanket ban on it.

learn to control what comes out of your gob, and if you cant, then cop the consequences, be it legal or physical.

 

[Invigoration]

They are not allowed to serve you any more alcohol once it is obvious you are affected and they have to get you to vacate the premises. So yes, it is illegal to remain on licenced premises by the law.

How is it that many can have a few drinks, some even get drunk and not cause one bit of trouble, yet others have a few and go totally stupid?

Where is their common sense?



So you cant contain yourself to maybe "shit!" you have to launch into a tirade of abuse that is clearly pushing the boundaries that you know exist yet choose to push?

Society can handle 'shit' as a profanity, but the other words, which i use more than I should, but wont in any public place loud enough for everyone to hear is clearly unacceptable by the law.

Why cant you contain yourself to that level? Have you anger management issues? Or do you think that emotion overrides basic human decency? I would have thought the mark of a man is his ability to assess any situation he is in and act accordingly. Not ask that all barriers be removed so he can act like a 5 yo having a tantrum.



Ask the people it offends. just because you dont get offended by them, doesnt mean someone else doesnt. The law is in place to prevent those that might get offended from getting offended. So they remove all interpretation of what is tolerated and place a blanket ban on it.

learn to control what comes out of your gob, and if you cant, then cop the consequences, be it legal or physical.

Quoted for truth.

 

[RobV]

They are not allowed to serve you any more alcohol once it is obvious you are affected and they have to get you to vacate the premises. So yes, it is illegal to remain on licenced premises by the law.

How is it that many can have a few drinks, some even get drunk and not cause one bit of trouble, yet others have a few and go totally stupid?

Where is their common sense?

I don't go stupid at the football(swearing is not going stupid) so I can't answer that first hand, but I would say a lot of people use football as a release and that could be your reason why there.

So you cant contain yourself to maybe "shit!" you have to launch into a tirade of abuse that is clearly pushing the boundaries that you know exist yet choose to push?

Society can handle 'shit' as a profanity, but the other words, which i use more than I should, but wont in any public place loud enough for everyone to hear is clearly unacceptable by the law.

Why cant you contain yourself to that level? Have you anger management issues? Or do you think that emotion overrides basic human decency? I would have thought the mark of a man is his ability to assess any situation he is in and act accordingly. Not ask that all barriers be removed so he can act like a 5 yo having a tantrum.

I should be able to cheer how I please, at the moment I contain my self because it is respectful but sometimes you can not, and even if its the first time you said **** you will still get a tap on your shoulder, its that soft.

I know familys don't like it but that is why I am asking for a child-free area so I can cheer as I please.

Ask the people it offends. just because you dont get offended by them, doesnt mean someone else doesnt. The law is in place to prevent those that might get offended from getting offended. So they remove all interpretation of what is tolerated and place a blanket ban on it.

learn to control what comes out of your gob, and if you cant, then cop the consequences, be it legal or physical.

That is why im asking for an area in the ground that is child free so we can have a place to cheer for our teams but not have to deal with the threat of getting kicked out.

Yes I will take the consequences, but your not going to get in legal trouble for a few words, worst they will do is put you in the drunk tank, besides getting kicked out and missing the game would be worse than anything the cops would do.

 

[Bigness]

These blokes are taking the piss surely??? They can't be serious. If they are serious then we should all be embarrassed to be Collingwood supporters and be associated with these complete nob heads.

They are basically using the footy as an outlet for there immature, moronic, 'I was abused as a kid poor bugger me', thuggish behaviour and hiding it behind their passion and patriotism for supporting Collingwood.

If they want to carry on like the bogans they are, they should feel free to identify an appropriate suburb, go there, bash people up, break the law, do whatever they want as the arseholes of society they are.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not condoning all of those things - my comments are a realisation that unfortanetly there are people who will behave like this in society, whether at the footy or not.

My objection is that they are implicating all Collingwood supporters by bringing it to the footy.

These are probably the blokes to who beat up on Nathan Jones's old man. Real pillars of society.

 

[Grumpy Bum]

I don't go stupid at the football(swearing is not going stupid) so I can't answer that first hand, but I would say a lot of people use football as a release and that could be your reason why there.



I should be able to cheer how I please, at the moment I contain my self because it is respectful but sometimes you can not, and even if its the first time you said **** you will still get a tap on your shoulder, its that soft.

I know familys don't like it but that is why I am asking for a child-free area so I can cheer as I please.




That is why im asking for an area in the ground that is child free so we can have a place to cheer for our teams but not have to deal with the threat of getting kicked out.

Yes I will take the consequences, but your not going to get in legal trouble for a few words, worst they will do is put you in the drunk tank, besides getting kicked out and missing the game would be worse than anything the cops would do.

So you want a place in which you can break the law in one way.

Where should this concession to stupidity cease? maybe a place where you can have a little bit of a belting to the opposition knob heads as well. how about a place where you can maybe threaten people. The list of concessions to breaking the law are endless.

How about just realising there are laws and you are not meant to break them? And that your concession is to the fact that we live in a civil society where people should feel at ease wherever they are and not have to feel intimidated by a bunch of mentally challenged knobs with a mob mentality.

 

[Jabso]

I don't think RobV is going as far as this group of small supporters with a blog.

However I don't think 'child-free' areas are needed.

I often drop F-bombs at the footy and kids are around me, I don't get told off though and I think the restrictions placed on crowd behaviour are overhyped. I sit in family-friendly areas and have personally never been told to stop by a supporter or by an official. The closest I've been is a family of Collingwood supporters in front of me at the Freo game this year. The kids weren't interested in the game I don't think the mother was either and the stupid teenage daughter was not-so-subtly cringing from my shouting. They left early anyway.

 

[Old Spice]

Segregated areas, anti "PC", read normal human behaviour, sounds very soccer hooliganesque to me. You can only imagine what a zoo this quarantined area would become.

Also, what supporters think it acceptable to shout our racist sh*t? I'm sure Leon, Harry, Sherrif, Dicky etc would really appreciate it. These people are poison to the club and if they don't like a decent football environment, they should p1ss off.

 

[Frederlick]

Just like being drunk in a public place is and has always been against the law, so too is using profanity. So you want the AFL to set aside a place where breaking the law is not only allowed but in fact encouraged by giving them a place in which to do it?

strange ideas some people.

How about learning some social skills and conducting yourself with some dignity and pride and containing your emotions to a more socially acceptable level. Or, failing to do that, cop what the law prescribes.

The AFL do have an area where they allow people to break the law, 3 strikes rule with drugs! The AFL knowingly let law breakers play and even went to court to protect them. So why can't fans have some of this law free action as well? Few players have been made to cop what the law prescribes.

Social skills?! Is that the sound of irony I hear? Players can drink drive, urinate in public, fight, pay off rape victims whatever and still play on, come on a fair go for all I say. What a load of hypocrites on here! The biggest bunch of law breaking bozos are usually on the filed running around with us cheering them on.

 

[Old Spice]

You might have noticed there was a bit of furore around drink driving incidents and I'll take the advice of drug experts on zero tolerance versus a redemption based approach.

The difference with the AFL is that they want to help guide wayward players back into the mainstream, the suggestion of these supposed supporters is to drive wedges and glorify anti-social behaviour.

 

[Frederlick]

The AFL actually encourages this sort of fan behaviour by applying a double standard. Why shouldn't fans expect to be able to bend the laws, no matter how flawed their logic is? The AFL do not make laws in relation to drugs, we have a parliament for that, who also make laws regarding assault and other anti social behaviour. However the AFL have, for whatever intellectually muddled reasoning, continued to shield players who have taken illegal drugs (which are hugely damaging to society and directly related to crime and social problems) and allow them to play without any sanction.

Maybe we should just give fans a 3 strikes policy and reeducate and guide them when they waywardly fight and urinate and carry on in public? Taking drugs is just as dangerous as drink driving or assaulting someone, people on drugs get in vehicle accidents, fights and robberys as well as injuring themselves and their health, not to mention the related welfare problems their families often experience. But the AFL as an organistaion condone this?

Tell me any player would get away with 2 drink driving convictions and the AFL go to court to protect his identity? Alcohol is a drug, so why don't illegal (drink driving etc) alcohol users get the same protection from the AFL as illegal drug users? Don't tell me the AFL has anything but their brand's image at the heart of the 3 strikes rule. These fans are just suggesting they should be allowed to break the law and continue to be innvolved in the game. Just like players such as Michael Voss (assault), Andrew Lovett (DUI, domestic violence) and Rhyce Shaw (DUI) have been.

 

[Old Spice]

so what's your argument, because some players go off the rails the crowd should be able to be quarantined so they can get pissed, swear and yell racist abuse?

 

[Nardz]

some of this stuff would be good value if it was a pisstake..

-No go zones for Police and security in parts of the stadiums. We can police ourselves.

-No go zones for Families. We believe children should not be admitted to all parts of the ground as much for their own safety and benefit.

what do they think the footy is? the bronx? lol

 

[Koki Freelander]

FWIW, I work in a field that deals with the meanings and consequences of political radicalisation. Whilst I don't condone what they are saying, the best way to make a fringe, radical group dangerous is to exclude them from the system they wish to take part in. People very quickly become disillusioned, disenfranchised, and overcome with feelings of hopelessness. If some of these guys and gals are former cheer squad members, then booting them out may have pushed their passion away from a socially acceptable outlet (cheersquad membership) towards an anti-social outlet (vigilantes). It might sound trite, but this "radicalisation model" is almost universal when applied to social violence.