Mega Thread The Bucks Megathread.

[left at home]

Wrong how? I said we’d need a hell of a lot of improvement to not have another 9 win season. And we have improved out of sight, at least vs teams below us.

I still have serious doubts about Buckley as a coach. I still think it’s mainly talent and height (JDG and Stevo and Cox up front) that’s made the fwd line function somewhat decently. Have a look at the swans game for how our fwd line functioned without JDG.

I’ve said all along this side, with the talent and draw in 2018, a pass mark is top 4 and there is no reason we shouldn’t win the flag. I said a decent coach would win the flag with the list of players we have.

Basically, all Bucks has done in 2018 is break even. This is barely a pass mark. A top 4 finish is a reasonable expectation, as it has been every year since 2012. It’s the minimum. Anything less than top 4 and he rightfully deserves to cop it. One season of finals with a very good draw, with 4 woefully inadequate seasons from 2014-2017, doesn’t get him off the hook.

Richmond are ripe for the picking. It’s premiership or failure for Buckley this year in my book.

God to you can move the goal posts

 

[jathanas]

So, were you born this year?, or were you asleep the last 5 years?, are you saying that we so called " expert judges" did not see the complete train wreck that was the last 5 years, maybe not all of us are happy about the mediocre shit that the club has served up the last 5 years with a coach who was obviously struggling, that's why he was given good assistants because he was trying to do it all himself, ( which he himself admitted earlier this year), how about you be happy that we are actually making some progress at last and stop trying to bait people who had every right to be frustrated with what was going on, get off your high horse and at least wait to see if we actually make top 4 or do anything at all in the finals. Oh, and if can't see the different push the ball forward, more forward handpassing and more switch the ball to the middle style of play this year, the bringing in of more speed, the different forward 50 style entries, the non use of of a 7 man defence this year then maybe your knowledge of our new game style is non existent.

Who pissed in your Kornflakes man?

If you want to remain angry about 2012-17 that's your right. All of us were frustrated and most bar a handful of people had lost faith in Buckley as the right coach. The mood has now shifted as we look to the finals.

If you feel we should be top 4 every year and that heads should roll if we're not, that's cool; to some it might appear that you are the one on a high horse with expectations like that.

Please spare me the "we should have high standards for Collingwood and hold the club to account" lecture; we're just supporters of the club. We should aim for high standards for ourselves, not push them onto others.

 

[Jasper84]

Yet as soon as someone even looks at the past, some posters fill their underwear with sand without a reason why. So no I didn't answer my own question, the ad nauseum I was referring to was not about those posters who continually get their back when the succession plan is revisited.

Every single aspect of Buckley's tenure and the succession plan has been picked apart, analysed and debated on here ad nauseum. All that happens is we have the same cyclic discussion, the same points rehashed and no new information gleaned.

 

[Iskender Time]

What a bloody legend our coach is, m8s!

 

[ppoiter]

Like I was saying..

Talk of vindication is useless until he delivers us a premiership.

If you survive a review.. when others don't.. you're not there to sip on a nice chards cause your team's going well.. the real work starts now. Can excuse him if he doesnt get the job done for us this yr.. sonewhat.. but if he doesn't deliver us a premiership by 2020.. it's a failure.

I would agree with that but only to the extent that the mission would be considered a failure, it doesn't necessarily mean hes failed at his job

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I would agree with that but only to the extent that the mission would be considered a failure, it doesn't necessarily mean hes failed at his job

How can anyone categorically say that he's been a failure/successful.. gotta draw the line somewhere though.. that to me involves a Premiership. Great if we get it this yr.. wouldn't be all that happy if we didn't have one by 2020 though. That's where I draw a line in the sand and say.. you failed.

 

[jackcass]

Not gonna go over it again Jack. I'm not bringing up the arguments, I'm just saying some see there is reason for debate and many view it that way.

Whether you like that or not is irrelevant because some have a view different from yours. Some think there was another cup in that MM team, you think differently - good for you. No one can know for certain because the other path was not taken - it can only be speculation, both ways.

So there is always going to an element of doubt - that gives reason for argument.

No need to get your nose out of joint.

And I keep inviting you to make your case, you keep avoiding it. Surely if it's worthy of debate and you seem so committed to continually bring it up then it's not too much to ask you to demonstrate how you think things would have been different under a continued MM reign. How would the list evolved differently and performances changed?

Who are these "many" and how have you gauged it?

 

[jmac70]

“We have seen the way this list plays for Nathan. He is a man of the highest integrity, he has compassion for his players on and off the field, he is uncompromising in his commitment to the role and we believe he is taking this group in the right direction” - Eddie McGuire Aug 2017.

 

[MagpieJoel]

they saw the whole picture.

This sort of comment irks me. It reads as if you think only some people can or could see the whole picture (e.g. Those that didn't agree with the Buckley appointment).

It's compete and utter rubbish.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The questions were asked as part of the review which took place at the club. The changes in place have us looking successful. Why continue to harp on about 2012-2017?




Nobody admitted fault. Successful organisations and leadership programs don't blame, they seek improvement; that's not the same thing.



Some posters might be tired of the whole MM-Buckley transition saga and just want to move forward.



I didn't see the club ever taking that position (that's you projecting) and I'm confused about how the "succession plan" was fixed over the preseason, please clarify.

Not sure anyone here was ignoring our predicament, and many including myself were prepared for wholesale changes. Those changes took place and we now look to be headed in the right direction. Time to let go.

Geez, talk about splitting hairs mate! Do I have to word it perfectly so you don't cherry pick to allow you to get your nose out of joint.

If you think the club didn't admit to themselves that things weren't right you're delusional. If your belief is correct nothing would've changed. I'm not going to go into detail - go back in the thread if you want info.

You just need to suck it up and accept some supporters don't follow your view and will question the past, that's called being human beings - just coz you don't like does not deny them right to do so. If you don't like it change the channel.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Just a quick note:

There are some on here who have an issue with me defending those who question the past including the succession plan which is relevant to the thread.

It is relevant to the thread - no amount of "look how good we are now stop talking about" will stop some talking about.

Apologies for the blunt reality.

Anyway I'm off to the finals thread.

 

[jathanas]

Geez, talk about splitting hairs mate! Do I have to word it perfectly so you don't cherry pick to allow you to get your nose out of joint.

If you think the club didn't admit to themselves that things weren't right you're delusional. If your belief is correct nothing would've changed. I'm not going to go into detail - go back in the thread if you want info.

You just need to suck it up and accept some supporters don't follow your view and will question the past, that's called being human beings - just coz you don't like does not deny them right to do so. If you don't like it change the channel.

Hey mate, my nose isn't out joint and I'm happy for others to have an opinion that is different to mine.

I wasn't splitting hairs. The way you frame any situation in life is very important in my opinion; that has been proven in many studies and is a major factor in achieving success in sport or any other endeavour.

We clearly have very different views, but that doesn't mean I'm delusional or need to "change the channel".

Look at the tone of voice in your text (quoted) and my response. Then ask yourself : "Who's nose is out of joint?". Peace.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Hey mate, my nose isn't out joint and I'm happy for others to have an opinion that is different to mine.

I wasn't splitting hairs. The way you frame any situation in life is very important in my opinion; that has been proven in many studies and is a major factor in achieving success in sport or any other endeavour.

We clearly have very different views, but that doesn't mean I'm delusional or need to "change the channel".

Look at the tone of voice in your text (quoted) and my response. Then ask yourself : "Who's nose is out of joint?". Peace.

Agree we have different views, in your previous reply you stated some fans want to move on - great move on.

All I'm saying is that some want to question the past and some get their back up - those who dwell in the past have a right to do so.

Not my preferred choice but some do, just allow them without jumping all over their back.

Some are gonna look at this post and immediately conclude I'm one who wants to - I don't I'm just defending the wish of those to do so.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Just a quick note:

There are some on here who have an issue with me defending those who question the past including the succession plan which is relevant to the thread.

It is relevant to the thread - no amount of "look how good we are now stop talking about" will stop some talking about.

Apologies for the blunt reality.

Anyway I'm off to the finals thread.

Its not reality, its perception

 

[The Plowking]

Every single aspect of Buckley's tenure and the succession plan has been picked apart, analysed and debated on here ad nauseum. All that happens is we have the same cyclic discussion, the same points rehashed and no new information gleaned.

Afarrkingmen.

 

[TimothyJ23]

It's fairly evident to me that Buckley himself is a pretty good coach, but was let down by the systems around him for a bit too long.

He's finally got the right people around him and a bloody good list to work with. If we don't win the flag this year I think we're a good shot in the next 2 years.

 

[ThexderX]

Congratulations to Buckley (and his team) - fantastic result to get us into the finals, even better when considering our injury toll.

My hand is up, I didn't want him renewed and he has proved me wrong, which I was always hoping he would do.

He always handled himself with class under immense pressure and his class cannot be questioned.

 

[Darkyprotector]

You can look forward to Collingwood coaches failing you for the rest of your life.

Then piss the thread off, it's the same old shit everytime, lets just be grateful that the misery that was the last five years now seems to be over

fair dinkum

I showed faith got on round 2 juicy juicy $26 odds for top 4

Anyone else?
No brainer really
Easier draw
Depleted crows( Cameron , lever) no Mumford , swans ageing ,
Hindsight

Oh and we have the best tall forward weapon in the league. Blind freddy could see that

Watch him go in the finals

Giddy up

 

[Darkyprotector]

Oh and to put it to rest couple of chapters in SIDE BY SIDE explain the mechanics behind the succession plan
Shows why how and who were responsible
Where the weakness were and you get it from the horse mouth

UNBIASED

 

[swoop42]

Given some people have shown no ability whatsoever to offer constructive criticism on the coach or even the club in recent seasons and have simply been guided by nothing more than blind faith it's hilarious that these same people are now pumping out their chest on the back of our return to finals after 5 years like it was always a fait accompli when we were sitting at 5-10 in 2017.

If people are happy to deduce that this season is justification for Buckley's retention last year (I agree) and that he is the right man for the job moving forward (I now do) then I can only imagine people are able to concede also that the past 4 years were an example of a coach who still had much to learn and improve in as did the club as a whole.

Basically you can't have it both ways and decide that only this season provides "factual" evidence to the quality of Buckley's coaching and dismiss the concerns of the past as "opinion" not based in reality.

The real unsung hero as far as I'm concerned is Peter Murphy.

It was Murphy in my opinion who gave voice to the disillusioned Collingwood fan concerned about our continued poor on field performances and the professional standards of some employed by the club.

He had the standing within the community and courage to challenge McGuire and to McGuire's credit (and perhaps self preservation) he placated those concerns by allowing Murphy to conduct a thorough review of the football club.

At the end of his review and in stark contrast to those who continually parrot the club can do no wrong his findings lead to:

1. The removal of CEO Gary Pert and a proper process to find his successor (McGuire apparently just wanted to install Lethlean)
2. The expansion of our assistant coaching panel to support Buckley.
3. New list manager hired. Hine released from the role to concentrate solely on recruitment.
4. High performance manager replaced.
5. Position created for Nick Maxwell.

While it was always a wait and see approach and one we looked to replicate from the Richmond example of 12 months earlier it's fair to say the recommendations from Murphy and yes Walsh to retain Buckley are looking at present to be a spectacular success.

Still let's not pretend now everything was running at it's optimum in the preceding seasons and to me this year only reinforces mine and others frustration over it.

We have seen injuries used as an excuse for our lacklustre results of the past few seasons and yet we currently sit 3rd with an injury list far and away greater than any proceeding season. Injuries yes were a hindrance to not being a genuine premiership chance but top 8 I'm not so convinced.

Plenty of people were happy to lay excuses for the coach and club at the feet of Hine and the state of our list and yet here we are sitting 3rd with a long long injury list and with only 1 new recruit in Stephenson making a meaningful contribution to our ladder position in 2018.

Are people still questioning the ability of Hine now?

Yes young players will improve with experience and if enough collectively do it in one year then you can see real improvement from one season to the next but you lose experience along the way also whether by injury or retirement while others due to age aren't as good as they once were.

So is the improvement we have witnessed this season all down to the natural progression of young players or an individuals own desire to push themselves to greater heights or is it down to coaching, the refinements made to structures over the summer period, improved game day instruction or healthy player relationships.

With our injury list I doubt it all comes down to talent and with the real talent still remaining out on the field it's not all coaching either so I guess it's a little from column A, B, C and D.

For mine your perception of Buckley all comes down to how you've viewed our talent collective in a season in relation to the final result.

While others are free to disagree I'll always maintain our talent level was on par with the Western Bulldogs in 2016 and they were able to achieve what they did with a similar injury profile simply because of the influence of Beveridge and his ability to elevate them above themselves.

For me this is the first time under Buckley I've felt the same way, that we've maximised the potential contained within our list, we've got the right structures out on the field in place that are allowing this individual talent to shine through and this coupled with the overall coaching performance has elevated our position above what you could reasonably expect given the availability of players.

More than happy to grade Buckley an A+ for this season but fair to say it's taken longer than I naively expected when I supported the succession plan.

I'm guilty your honor of wavering about my initial instinct that Buckley had the ability to become a fine coach but just like 2009 as now I'll always voice a strong opinion if I believe it's in the best interests of the club and will do so ahead of any one individual within it.

Without people daring to question, Peter Murphy would have remained silent.

I wonder where that would have got us?

 

[Thefly38]

never doubted the man... jet

 

[noideaatall]

fair dinkum
I showed faith got on round 2 juicy juicy $26 odds for top 4
Anyone else?
No brainer really
Easier draw
Depleted crows( Cameron , lever) no Mumford , swans ageing ,
Hindsight
Oh and we have the best tall forward weapon in the league. Blind freddy could see that
Watch him go in the finals
Giddy up

Good on you for your foresight.

...
I said a decent coach would win the flag with the list of players we have.
Basically, all Bucks has done in 2018 is break even. This is barely a pass mark. A top 4 finish is a reasonable expectation, as it has been every year since 2012. It’s the minimum. Anything less than top 4 and he rightfully deserves to cop it. One season of finals with a very good draw, with 4 woefully inadequate seasons from 2014-2017, doesn’t get him off the hook.

Very tough criteria and little recognition for the many circumstances that could be interpreted as impacting on our finals chances over the past seasons. Reads like you believe we have the best list in the AFL and Bucks is blamed for the past but gets no recognition for the present. You may be right but looking back over the past four decades and applying that sort of criteria and judgement I can only see a few years you'd be happy with. Must be a lot of blind freddies out there in the footy analysis business because I didn't notice many others that certain about Cox.
Hope he does kill it in the finals but concerned his kicking is due to an injury.

 

[MagpieJoel]

J
Apologies for the blunt reality.

**** you're a know it all.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Its not reality, its perception

Hmm perception eh? Yet posters keep bringing it up Hmm perhaps it is a reality that poster keep posting about it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

**** you're a know it all.

Yeah sure anything you need to know just give me a hoy!