Mega Thread The Bucks Megathread.

[Rorzza]

From memory I was confident Bucks would be a good coach. My faith was tested at the start of last year, during the Hawthorn game after the first quarter. I were thinking this is the worst I've seen CFC play ever, they are shite and bucks is kaput! CFC won that game, since then the club has steadily improved and by coincidence Buckleys' coaching too...

 

[Anzacday]

At the end of his review and in stark contrast to those who continually parrot the club can do no wrong his findings lead to:

1. The removal of CEO Gary Pert and a proper process to find his successor (McGuire apparently just wanted to install Lethlean)
2. The expansion of our assistant coaching panel to support Buckley.
3. New list manager hired. Hine released from the role to concentrate solely on recruitment.
4. High performance manager replaced.
5. Position created for Nick Maxwell.

The bolded bit has been the key for mine - how ironic the peanut constantly banged on about finals and we make them the year he leaves

PS: Our CEO is doing a brilliant job of not being heard - obviously focusing on his job.

 

[TKiL]

The bolded bit has been the key for mine - how ironic the peanut constantly banged on about finals and we make them the year he leaves
PS: Our CEO is doing a brilliant job of not being heard - obviously focusing on his job.

This

 

[Countrypie]

The bolded bit has been the key for mine - how ironic the peanut constantly banged on about finals and we make them the year he leaves

PS: Our CEO is doing a brilliant job of not being heard - obviously focusing on his job.

Can't be over emphasized.

 

[Mortimore 39ers]

So, were you born this year?, or were you asleep the last 5 years?, are you saying that we so called " expert judges" did not see the complete train wreck that was the last 5 years, maybe not all of us are happy about the mediocre shit that the club has served up the last 5 years with a coach who was obviously struggling, that's why he was given good assistants because he was trying to do it all himself, ( which he himself admitted earlier this year), how about you be happy that we are actually making some progress at last and stop trying to bait people who had every right to be frustrated with what was going on, get off your high horse and at least wait to see if we actually make top 4 or do anything at all in the finals. Oh, and if can't see the different push the ball forward, more forward handpassing and more switch the ball to the middle style of play this year, the bringing in of more speed, the different forward 50 style entries, the non use of of a 7 man defence this year then maybe your knowledge of our new game style is non existent.

Why do you guys keep saying 5 years of failure/mediocrity etc.?

This year has been a solid year for us. Anytime you qualify for finals is an above average year because 10 out of the 18 clubs in the comp are watching September from the sidelines. Bucks has coached Collingwood to 3 final series in his seven seasons. So I'll give you 4 frustrating below par seasons/years but not 5.

Next year he will break even and then it's dynasty/legend stuff after that!

 

[parvey]

Why do you guys keep saying 5 years of failure/mediocrity etc.?

This year has been a solid year for us. Anytime you qualify for finals is an above average year because 10 out of the 18 clubs in the comp are watching September from the sidelines. Bucks has coached Collingwood to 3 final series in his seven seasons. So I'll give you 4 frustrating below par seasons/years but not 5.

Next year he will break even and then it's dynasty/legend stuff after that!

It's been done to death mate, lets just be grateful that we are finally in the finals and I think a chance to win the whole bloody thing

 

[Iskender Time]

Cox on Talking Footy about the turning point of his career when he was weighing up moving on, he said of a chat with Bucks, “He kinda gave me a better idea of who I was as a person.”

Add life coach and guru to Bucks’ list of abilities.

 

[60 Yards Out]

Wrong how? I said we’d need a hell of a lot of improvement to not have another 9 win season. And we have improved out of sight, at least vs teams below us.

I still have serious doubts about Buckley as a coach. I still think it’s mainly talent and height (JDG and Stevo and Cox up front) that’s made the fwd line function somewhat decently. Have a look at the swans game for how our fwd line functioned without JDG.

I’ve said all along this side, with the talent and draw in 2018, a pass mark is top 4 and there is no reason we shouldn’t win the flag. I said a decent coach would win the flag with the list of players we have.

Basically, all Bucks has done in 2018 is break even. This is barely a pass mark. A top 4 finish is a reasonable expectation, as it has been every year since 2012. It’s the minimum. Anything less than top 4 and he rightfully deserves to cop it. One season of finals with a very good draw, with 4 woefully inadequate seasons from 2014-2017, doesn’t get him off the hook.

Richmond are ripe for the picking. It’s premiership or failure for Buckley this year in my book.

The sense of entitlement is much too high. There are 17 clubs on a mission to beat us. “Premiership or failure” is just about the silliest thing I have ever heard.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

The sense of entitlement is much too high. There are 17 clubs on a mission to beat us. “Premiership or failure” is just about the silliest thing I have ever heard.

Premiership or failure by 2020 is more of an accurate assessment.

Giving Buckley a bit of wriggle room.

 

[jmac70]

The sense of entitlement is much too high. There are 17 clubs on a mission to beat us. “Premiership or failure” is just about the silliest thing I have ever heard.

It’s hard for some people to let go of their hatred towards Bucks.

 

[jmac70]

Cox on Talking Footy about the turning point of his career when he was weighing up moving on, he said of a chat with Bucks, “He kinda gave me a better idea of who I was as a person.”

Add life coach and guru to Bucks’ list of abilities.

It’s pretty clear that the players really enjoy having him as coach. I’m looking forward to a significant contract extension soon.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

The sense of entitlement is much too high. There are 17 clubs on a mission to beat us. “Premiership or failure” is just about the silliest thing I have ever heard.

Yet that is the equation. It might be a very difficult one, but that does not make it silly. Nobody disputes that premierships are hard to win, and that is why premierships remain as the ultimate measurement of success in our competition.
Not sure what our current mission statement is... But it normally says something like... "Our primary objective is to win premierships" . This would be the same for those 17 other clubs.
Apart from being a popular buzz-term at the moment... What does "sense of entitlement" have to do with anything?

 

[Darkyprotector]

Given some people have shown no ability whatsoever to offer constructive criticism on the coach or even the club in recent seasons and have simply been guided by nothing more than blind faith it's hilarious that these same people are now pumping out their chest on the back of our return to finals after 5 years like it was always a fait accompli when we were sitting at 5-10 in 2017.

If people are happy to deduce that this season is justification for Buckley's retention last year (I agree) and that he is the right man for the job moving forward (I now do) then I can only imagine people are able to concede also that the past 4 years were an example of a coach who still had much to learn and improve in as did the club as a whole.

Basically you can't have it both ways and decide that only this season provides "factual" evidence to the quality of Buckley's coaching and dismiss the concerns of the past as "opinion" not based in reality.

The real unsung hero as far as I'm concerned is Peter Murphy.

It was Murphy in my opinion who gave voice to the disillusioned Collingwood fan concerned about our continued poor on field performances and the professional standards of some employed by the club.

He had the standing within the community and courage to challenge McGuire and to McGuire's credit (and perhaps self preservation) he placated those concerns by allowing Murphy to conduct a thorough review of the football club.

At the end of his review and in stark contrast to those who continually parrot the club can do no wrong his findings lead to:

1. The removal of CEO Gary Pert and a proper process to find his successor (McGuire apparently just wanted to install Lethlean)
2. The expansion of our assistant coaching panel to support Buckley.
3. New list manager hired. Hine released from the role to concentrate solely on recruitment.
4. High performance manager replaced.
5. Position created for Nick Maxwell.

While it was always a wait and see approach and one we looked to replicate from the Richmond example of 12 months earlier it's fair to say the recommendations from Murphy and yes Walsh to retain Buckley are looking at present to be a spectacular success.

Still let's not pretend now everything was running at it's optimum in the preceding seasons and to me this year only reinforces mine and others frustration over it.

We have seen injuries used as an excuse for our lacklustre results of the past few seasons and yet we currently sit 3rd with an injury list far and away greater than any proceeding season. Injuries yes were a hindrance to not being a genuine premiership chance but top 8 I'm not so convinced.

Plenty of people were happy to lay excuses for the coach and club at the feet of Hine and the state of our list and yet here we are sitting 3rd with a long long injury list and with only 1 new recruit in Stephenson making a meaningful contribution to our ladder position in 2018.

Are people still questioning the ability of Hine now?

Yes young players will improve with experience and if enough collectively do it in one year then you can see real improvement from one season to the next but you lose experience along the way also whether by injury or retirement while others due to age aren't as good as they once were.

So is the improvement we have witnessed this season all down to the natural progression of young players or an individuals own desire to push themselves to greater heights or is it down to coaching, the refinements made to structures over the summer period, improved game day instruction or healthy player relationships.

With our injury list I doubt it all comes down to talent and with the real talent still remaining out on the field it's not all coaching either so I guess it's a little from column A, B, C and D.

For mine your perception of Buckley all comes down to how you've viewed our talent collective in a season in relation to the final result.

While others are free to disagree I'll always maintain our talent level was on par with the Western Bulldogs in 2016 and they were able to achieve what they did with a similar injury profile simply because of the influence of Beveridge and his ability to elevate them above themselves.

For me this is the first time under Buckley I've felt the same way, that we've maximised the potential contained within our list, we've got the right structures out on the field in place that are allowing this individual talent to shine through and this coupled with the overall coaching performance has elevated our position above what you could reasonably expect given the availability of players.

More than happy to grade Buckley an A+ for this season but fair to say it's taken longer than I naively expected when I supported the succession plan.

I'm guilty your honor of wavering about my initial instinct that Buckley had the ability to become a fine coach but just like 2009 as now I'll always voice a strong opinion if I believe it's in the best interests of the club and will do so ahead of any one individual within it.

Without people daring to question, Peter Murphy would have remained silent.

I wonder where that would have got us?

True murphy fine tuned things and its been a key plank
Lucky Eddie isn't what some think and was mature and professional enough to put it on himself as well

BUT
After the win against the hawk s last year , the second half was simply the best transition footy I'd seen for years

Showed me continuity was crucial and confident we had the tools
Second if the end of last season without the skipper didn't fill you with hope and confidence well (6 wins 1 draw wasnt it) what would

A easier draw
Weaker opposition with off season changes
New coaches
Maturity of the list

Far too much negativity
Far too much listening to plonkers in the msm

 

[HFF]

It's only one season but the club has every right to feel vindicated by their decision to back in Nathan.
And Nathan should feel very vindicated in his beliefs and what he has produced this year.

 

[60 Yards Out]

Yet that is the equation. It might be a very difficult one, but that does not make it silly. Nobody disputes that premierships are hard to win, and that is why premierships remain as the ultimate measurement of success in our competition.
Not sure what our current mission statement is... But it normally says something like... "Our primary objective is to win premierships" . This would be the same for those 17 other clubs.
Apart from being a popular buzz-term at the moment... What does "sense of entitlement" have to do with anything?

A fair question. I used the term “sense of entitlement” to describe the idea expressed by many posters that premierships are a “requirement,” or that we can hold the club “accountable” for not winning them, or that anything less than a premiership is “unacceptable” and so on. These sentiments are often expressed with a tinge of anger that really is out of place. My reading of them is that they indicate a sense of entitlement to the ultimate prize — a sense that is clearly unrealistic because so much in the competition is contingent on factors outside the club’s control. In an 18 team competition we have to accept that we will usually not win the premiership. It takes a rare combination of performance and good fortune. If we can’t come to terms with that and learn to just enjoy the good times when they roll, there is much unhappiness in store.

 

[Maggie5]

Yet that is the equation. It might be a very difficult one, but that does not make it silly. Nobody disputes that premierships are hard to win, and that is why premierships remain as the ultimate measurement of success in our competition.
Not sure what our current mission statement is... But it normally says something like... "Our primary objective is to win premierships" . This would be the same for those 17 other clubs.
Apart from being a popular buzz-term at the moment... What does "sense of entitlement" have to do with anything?

Think you should read his post as it relates to the post he was replying to and not put your own interpretation on it.

I agree that it silly unless of course you don't think that 17 other clubs are trying to achieve the same - ultimate success.

Every year we are competing against a minimum of what 10 other clubs are realistically trying to achieve. The others are happy to improve until it becomes a reality for them whilst other clubs will go down. For me anyone who thinks we should win the GF because of A, B, C, are the ones that see it as a sense of entitlement. Are you one of them?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It's only one season but the club has every right to feel vindicated by their decision to back in Nathan.
And Nathan should feel very vindicated in his beliefs and what he has produced this year.

One and a half seasons if truth be known. After a slow start in 2017 (five wins after 16 rounds) there were plenty of good signs in the second half.

 

[76woodenspooners]

If Bucks is vindicated then so is Eddie, the board and the members who remained faithful. Kudos to their faith, I didn't share it after round one this year. Kudos to the BF posters that stayed on board. As an unfaithful fan I have to say it is a great moment to know we are on the right track. We are a long, long way from the prize we all seek but to know we are heading in the right direction is a wonderful thing. Today was another victory that demonstrates we are not pretenders with a lucky draw. Go pies!

Some kudos is also due to Peter Murphy. He arrived at the Holden Centre to do his review and 12 months later the club seems to have changed significantly for the better.

 

[jackcass]

Hmm perception eh? Yet posters keep bringing it up Hmm perhaps it is a reality that poster keep posting about it.

No, you keep bringing it up.

Still waiting for you to provide your reasoning as to why we would have had continued success under MM.








*yet again, crickets chirping*

 

[Gone Critical]

A fair question. I used the term “sense of entitlement” to describe the idea expressed by many posters that premierships are a “requirement,” or that we can hold the club “accountable” for not winning them, or that anything less than a premiership is “unacceptable” and so on. These sentiments are often expressed with a tinge of anger that really is out of place. My reading of them is that they indicate a sense of entitlement to the ultimate prize — a sense that is clearly unrealistic because so much in the competition is contingent on factors outside the club’s control. In an 18 team competition we have to accept that we will usually not win the premiership. It takes a rare combination of performance and good fortune. If we can’t come to terms with that and learn to just enjoy the good times when they roll, there is much unhappiness in store.

I like the sentiment behind this post and suspect arriving at your view is more likely tied to a long time support of our footy club.

I think of my more youthful supporting self and I was much more along the lines of saying we will always win, nothing else is acceptable, if we dont we fail etc. There was more a feel that as a supporter I needed to be all out and to do so may somehow influence the team. There was no place for rational assessment. I think that's where the "sense of entitlement" comes from. If you gave all out support, if there was a possibility your support could influence things then you could have an expectation that success was owed. The "tinge of anger" kicks in maybe when the club is seen not to have completed its part of your bargain.

Live through the ups and downs of Collingwood since the late 60's and you come to more of an understanding of what you don't know and you naturally become a more passive supporter. Passive in the sense that your passion remains but you understand you are a spectator not in any way a participant in the clubs fortunes. You are in this with the masses of other supporters with clear separation from those who run and play for Collingwood. In many ways it leads to a greater appreciation of the efforts of those others. I enjoy the ups and hates the downs. I understand its much more likely we dont win a flag in the next 5 seasons than we do. I understand that if I hang around for another 30 years seeing 2 more flags will be a worthy result anfd the possibility it will be none is real. I understand that i hope like hell I am wrong on the last 2 points but will understand if I am not.

As such I am reconciled that I thought Bucks time was up last season but am rapt to be wrong. He is one of the greatly loved Collingwood figures for mine, alongside Browny and Wayne Richardson, so I never wanted him gone even if I thought that was for the best. I dont see the last 4 seasons as a waste just a path on the journey. We are on a good path now but realistically probably a 6-8 type list with work still to do. Injuries have hurt but that is balanced and then some by a really kind draw that has landed us in the top 4

Bucks is on fire and we have been lucky in 2018

 

[Scritchyscroony]

A fair question. I used the term “sense of entitlement” to describe the idea expressed by many posters that premierships are a “requirement,” or that we can hold the club “accountable” for not winning them, or that anything less than a premiership is “unacceptable” and so on. These sentiments are often expressed with a tinge of anger that really is out of place. My reading of them is that they indicate a sense of entitlement to the ultimate prize — a sense that is clearly unrealistic because so much in the competition is contingent on factors outside the club’s control. In an 18 team competition we have to accept that we will usually not win the premiership. It takes a rare combination of performance and good fortune. If we can’t come to terms with that and learn to just enjoy the good times when they roll, there is much unhappiness in store.

What you have written sounds good but in substance I think it's a simplistic misinterpretation of where those posters are really coming from. I very much doubt many of them are unaware of the long odds of winning flags. But Many posters will always expect and demand that their club is doing everything within its control, to the top of its abilities to maximise it's chances of winning its next flag. When they don't think this is occuring then they become disappointed and frustrated and express that. The alternative is to accept mediocrity. This is not the same as some kind of childish sense of entitlement to a flag.
The measurement of success or failure is so unrealistically premiership skewed in footy club terms anyway. Second prize sucks more than anything just about imv. Thats footy reality...It's not like real life. Was the Haffey era a success for our club??

 

[BringouttheGimp]

When posters give more thought to what an A grade match winner can do for you in a game of football means.. injuries are no excuse at all.

Maradona won the Serie A with Napoli.. Maradona won the World Cup with Argentina.. did they have a good balance of players.. I don't think so.. just give the ball to De Goey.. that's what wins premierships.. A grade world class talent.

You only need a few of em in your side.. ala.. Richmond.. Ala Collingwood as well.

We are a big chance this yr.. mark my words.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Dealing with 15 injuries or so during the yr.. and contributing wins to role players doing their bit.. is complete ignorance as far as I'm concerned.

It's the quality of A grade talent .. that we've had in our side all yr that has won us games.

Perhaps the so called experts on foxfooty should look into it a lot more. Brain-dead bogans.

 

[sideswipe]

I like the sentiment behind this post and suspect arriving at your view is more likely tied to a long time support of our footy club.

I think of my more youthful supporting self and I was much more along the lines of saying we will always win, nothing else is acceptable, if we dont we fail etc. There was more a feel that as a supporter I needed to be all out and to do so may somehow influence the team. There was no place for rational assessment. I think that's where the "sense of entitlement" comes from. If you gave all out support, if there was a possibility your support could influence things then you could have an expectation that success was owed. The "tinge of anger" kicks in maybe when the club is seen not to have completed its part of your bargain.

Live through the ups and downs of Collingwood since the late 60's and you come to more of an understanding of what you don't know and you naturally become a more passive supporter. Passive in the sense that your passion remains but you understand you are a spectator not in any way a participant in the clubs fortunes. You are in this with the masses of other supporters with clear separation from those who run and play for Collingwood. In many ways it leads to a greater appreciation of the efforts of those others. I enjoy the ups and hates the downs. I understand its much more likely we dont win a flag in the next 5 seasons than we do. I understand that if I hang around for another 30 years seeing 2 more flags will be a worthy result anfd the possibility it will be none is real. I understand that i hope like hell I am wrong on the last 2 points but will understand if I am not.

As such I am reconciled that I thought Bucks time was up last season but am rapt to be wrong. He is one of the greatly loved Collingwood figures for mine, alongside Browny and Wayne Richardson, so I never wanted him gone even if I thought that was for the best. I dont see the last 4 seasons as a waste just a path on the journey. We are on a good path now but realistically probably a 6-8 type list with work still to do. Injuries have hurt but that is balanced and then some by a really kind draw that has landed us in the top 4

Bucks is on fire and we have been lucky in 2018

If this is the more rational you, I am glad I didn't come across you in the 60's.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No, you keep bringing it up.

Still waiting for you to provide your reasoning as to why we would have had continued success under MM.








*yet again, crickets chirping*

No I don't, you're not reading my posts. I'll dumb it down for you - people are going to post about the past and that includes the succession plan which is relevant to the thread, that won't be avoided people are going to do that so it is not perception it's a reality - they're going to post.

If you want me to go over any reasoning I won't - it's been stated ad nauseum in this and other threads and to be honest I don't want to. I'm just stating that is anyone's right to question the past and explain their "reasoning"

If you can't understand that then don't bother replying.