Preview The Captaincy

[Heritier 09]

this thread exists here http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=844270&highlight=captaincy


EDIT: Thanks Heritier 09, just merged them together

 

[mattys123]

It's Maxwell's until he wants to give it up IMO.

I have never been overly impressed by Scott Pendlebury as a leader, and the way his contract negotiations went down didn't exactly boost my confidence in him.

A one year deal? What future captain demands a one year deal, so he can then keep GWS in the picture? To me, that's not a captain, that's too selfish for a true leader.

Maxy until he wants to give it up, then maybe a Sidebottom, Reid type as the next leader, I want someone intensely loyal, whose only thoughts are for this club, like Maxwell has been for so long now.

 

[daics_35]

It's Maxwell's until he wants to give it up IMO.

I have never been overly impressed by Scott Pendlebury as a leader, and the way his contract negotiations went down didn't exactly boost my confidence in him.

A one year deal? What future captain demands a one year deal, so he can then keep GWS in the picture? To me, that's not a captain, that's too selfish for a true leader.

Maxy until he wants to give it up, then maybe a Sidebottom, Reid type as the next leader, I want someone intensely loyal, whose only thoughts are for this club, like Maxwell has been for so long now.

Couldnt agree with this most anymore. What do people see in Pendles that makes them want him to replace Maxwell. Maxwell and Bally are our best leaders and if anyone was to replace Maxwell it should be Ball.

 

[NF33IH]

It's Maxwell's until he wants to give it up IMO.

I have never been overly impressed by Scott Pendlebury as a leader, and the way his contract negotiations went down didn't exactly boost my confidence in him.

A one year deal? What future captain demands a one year deal, so he can then keep GWS in the picture? To me, that's not a captain, that's too selfish for a true leader.

Maxy until he wants to give it up, then maybe a Sidebottom, Reid type as the next leader, I want someone intensely loyal, whose only thoughts are for this club, like Maxwell has been for so long now.

A little harsh don't ya think? The one year deal, at this stage, has nothing to do with going to GWS or GC. What it has to do is with is getting the best deal for him (fair enough too), which is ALWAYS going to be more after the new CBA (it wont be reduced) has been agreed upon. It is just smart business, which let's be honest, if roles are reversed EVERY club would be doing it this way.

Personally, if Maxy doesn't reclaim his form next year I don't see him holding the captaincy. At the end of the day, the players get a big say in who is captain anyway. I would like to see Pendlebury get it, but not at the cost of team harmony. I do not want Bally to get it, I love him as a player, but he played to long elsewhere for me to picture him as our Cap.

To me Pendles is the next logical step. Not that I want Maxy ousted just yet, but think that it is Pendles turn next.

 

[Krueger]

Are you kidding...........................

Maxwell has lead us superbly to a premiership and on the verge of another.

There would be no way it should be any other way next year. And I do not think any of the players would have it any other way either.

While we do have several players that demonstrate good leadership skills you just dont toss one good one out to make way for another to keep him at the club.

Furthermore ......................................... nar I am gobsmacked its even contemplated............

Replace the name Maxwell with Malthouse and its what we have today regarding the coaching position.

If we go back to back we dump our coach and Captain.
Great plan - NOT

 

[galindez]

The captaincy should not be a negotiating chip.

Maxwell has been an incredible captain. He was instrumental in pulling the team together after the draw and leading them on to our first premiership in 20 years. It's his until he doesnt want it anymore imo

 

[blaze036]

ur seriouslly calling pendlebury selfish for wanting to be payed more? I hope uve never asked for a raise then, or changed jobs for higher pay...

Hard to keep maxwell captain if he keeps playing like this, his widely regarded as the 2nd worst captain and laughed at by people i know, if his form stays as it is currently he'll really struggle to stay in the team let alone captain it.

plus i didnt like maxwells dummy spit on field with shaw, we all know shaw can be a bit in your face but the captain should remain calm and demand respect not enter into an embarrassing heated argument with a teammate.

Ball in hindsight probably hasn't been at the club long enough to be captain, i would give it to pendlebury. His cool calm composed and inspiring

 

[PieBeast]

It all depends on Maxy's form next year. If it doesn't improve I'm sure he will want to relinquish the Captaincy himself.

And Pendles one year deal had nothing to do with GWS.

 

[mattys123]

I may have been a bit harsh on Pendles before, but I ask the question, WHY HIM?

I actually think we are in a similar position to where we were when Maxwell was to be appointed captain eventually after Scott Burns retired, when no one was really standing out as the top candidate, and the club, more likely Malthouse chose the best leader, rather then a top player with some leadership ability.

If the best leader at the club is Pendles, then make him captain by all means, but if he's not, then give it to the man who is I say.

And at the moment, one man stands out, and his name in Nick Maxwell.

 

[PieBeast]

I may have been a bit harsh on Pendles before, but I ask the question, WHY HIM?

I actually think we are in a similar position to where we were when Maxwell was to be appointed captain eventually after Scott Burns retired, when no one was really standing out as the top candidate, and the club, more likely Malthouse chose the best leader, rather then a top player with some leadership ability.

If the best leader at the club is Pendles, then make him captain by all means, but if he's not, then give it to the man who is I say.

And at the moment, one man stands out, and his name in Nick Maxwell.

Yeah....Maxwell's captaincy really stood out this year.....

If it wasn't for his latest setback Mick would have ran out of positions on the field to hide him at pretty soon.

 

[blaze036]

The captaincy should not be a negotiating chip.

Maxwell has been an incredible captain. He was instrumental in pulling the team together after the draw and leading them on to our first premiership in 20 years. It's his until he doesnt want it anymore imo

What are u basing him being an incredible captain on? the fact he plays with a bunch of stars and won a premiership? Also the whole leadership group play pretty much an equal role in getting everyone up, the only difference between the captain and the rest of the leadership group is press conferences, toss of the coin, u can inspire ur team more and ur performances are more heavily scrutinized.

Also when maxwell got the captaincy there wasn't really that much competition, so i dunno if he'd have the full backing of the playing grp if there was another vote at the end of this year with contenders like pendlebury becoming of age.

 

[NF33IH]

I may have been a bit harsh on Pendles before, but I ask the question, WHY HIM?

I actually think we are in a similar position to where we were when Maxwell was to be appointed captain eventually after Scott Burns retired, when no one was really standing out as the top candidate, and the club, more likely Malthouse chose the best leader, rather then a top player with some leadership ability.

If the best leader at the club is Pendles, then make him captain by all means, but if he's not, then give it to the man who is I say.

And at the moment, one man stands out, and his name in Nick Maxwell.

Why him? Because he is a leader. He may not be the same type of leader as a Maxwell or Ball, but he doesn't have to be. Initially Buckley (the champion not the dud (sorry couldn't resist)) was not a good leader at all, but he definitely grew into it. One can lead in many ways and as someone stated before, the whole leadership group does a combined job these days, so it isn't too far fetched to have a Captain that isn't the vocal in your face kind of leader.

Maxy is our Captain and damn well should be at this stage, but that is not to say that if his form this season is the same next season that he shouldn't relinquish it. I want him in the team right now, but it is getting harder and harder to keep him in there.

And to the person who said Maxy is widely considered the 2nd worst Captain out there, that is hogwash. In a recent survey done by our favourite paper (http://media.heraldsun.com.au/superfooty/ffsresults_2011/pg2.html) he is at number 4 for the best leader. Your Captain does not have to be your best player...

EDIT: Also, the Captaincy should definitely NOT be used as a bargaining chip.

 

[Jelly Bean]

It's Maxwell's until he wants to give it up IMO.

I have never been overly impressed by Scott Pendlebury as a leader, and the way his contract negotiations went down didn't exactly boost my confidence in him.

A one year deal? What future captain demands a one year deal, so he can then keep GWS in the picture? To me, that's not a captain, that's too selfish for a true leader.

Maxy until he wants to give it up, then maybe a Sidebottom, Reid type as the next leader, I want someone intensely loyal, whose only thoughts are for this club, like Maxwell has been for so long now.

I don't think Pendles would be anywhere near the leader that Maxy is, but I don't know how long we can persist with Maxy, given he will become more and more a finge player.

No issues with him having had the job up until now, no issues with him having it next year, but we need to start grooming a successor (most likley Pendles). I would love to see Ball get it, but don't think he will..

P.S Matty - Sidebottom or Reid? Those two don't scream leadership to me at all...

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

New coach, new captain. Give it Pendles next year. Hopefully it'll make it harder for him to leave.

 

[Unknown Identity]

I don't think it will come down to whether or not to give the captaincy to an up and coming player in pendlebury to keep him at the club, but how long can we have a captain that is on the cusp of our best 22.

Fact is Maxwell has struggled this year, and has at times been thrown forward purely as there was no need for him down back.

Our backline consists of the following players at the moment.

Shaw - O'Brien - Tarrant - Davis - Reid - Toovey - Goldsack - Maxwell

And not to mention the return of Nathan Brown.

Ideally what is our best setup..?

O'Brien - Tarrant - Shaw
Davis - Reid - Toovey

Unfortunately there will come a time where you can have all the leadership qualities in the world, but if you have been surpassed by others or there isn't a spot for you, captain or not you have to be dropped.

Personally Goldsack plays a similar game to Maxwell IMO, he leaves his man to influence a contest and is just as courageous, the more game time he gets, the more he looks like a better player than maxwell and even he can't get a game at times.

We always have a soft spot for the captain of our great football club, but there will come a time in the near future where Maxwell is just not good enough to make our best 22.

Pendlebury or Ball i would be very happy with, and personally if the captaincy had nothing to do with Pendles staying and GWS is not an option, i would like Luke Ball to captain us. Just a very impressive human being and displays all the courage and discipline a captain should have but is in our top 5 players.

 

[Pie eyed]

Exactly the same arguments are being put forth here for Maxwell losing the Captaincy that were used for him never being made Captain. Not that that invalidates them but I can't see why anything would have changed within the club which would make these arguments more valid now than then. In fact having a 100% win rate this season and a 95% win rate last year as Captain would only seem to further strengthen the argument he stay in the position.
Cries that we should never be resting on our laurels are moot as we obviously are not.

On using the Captaincy of our club as a bargaining tool in contract negotiations. Firstly it sets a very poor, I think, precedent which will lead to "outsiders" expecting to be catapulted ahead of players who have put in the hard work at the club in future Trade and/or draft situations.
Secondly it sets the "Captain" apart from the group as a whole as currying some special conditions.
Doubtless Maxwell is far from the highest paid player at Collingwood.
Collingwood have neither the moral bankruptcy of Carlton or the overt desperation of Melbourne'
Our Captaincy is an honor not a saleable asset.

Anyone willing to post Maxwell's win/loss ration as captain including games as Acting Captain?

 

[Old Spice]

No one shines above Maxy at this point of proceedings. I think Ball would be a great candidate in a few years but he might be fringe best 22 by then with Josh Thomas playing that in and under role.

Pendles is a great, great player, but I see him as a little insular, not verbal enough and a bit on the sanguine side. That's great for keeping calm and not getting rattled, but maybe not for directing and setting positions around the ground. He is a Ball acolyte tho so who knows.

Dawes could be a smoky. Definitely has a presence and not afraid to put his views forward. Nathan Brown is a very mature, professional and passionate young bloke, so don't discount him yet.

 

[HFF]

Re: Captaincy

Taking the captaincy off a premiership captain, barring massive disgrace is a load of bollocks

This.

When Maxy is all set and done, then obvious choice is Pendles.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Anyone willing to post Maxwell's win/loss ration as captain including games as Acting Captain?

To me our win loss ratio is not a reflection on Maxwell's captaincy but a well rounded team that executes a great game plan by very clever coaching staff.

Yes he has inspirational moments in some games, but you can still be a passenger in a premiership winning team.

His onfield leadership is great, but when your football ability is not progressing and you go backwards as a player you should be dropped.

Would Maxwell get a game if he was not the captain..???

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Maxwell will relinquish the captaincy when the time is right for him. He won't need to be pushed by the club, because he will always put the team before himself and do it before that happens.

Maxwell, contrary to the BF consensus, is actually pretty intelligent. Given his past record of ALWAYS putting the club before himself I'd be more inclined to trust him in doing what is right for Collingwood in the long term as opposed to what might benefit him in the short term.

 

[BuckleysBrigade]

Hypothetically, let's say Maxwell relinquishes the captaincy at the end of this year - which, given his integrity/professionalism/form I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

As current vice-captain he obviously possesses the requisite leadership potential and respect of the playing group; for me this is not in question. Where I think one of the strongest arguments for Pendles as captain lies is with Buckley taking over as coach; both are notoriously hard workers, perfectionists and driven people. The chance to build a solid and uniform captain-coach combination could really see the 'pies take a step towards setting new standards in terms of work ethic and professionalism of attitude amongst AFL teams. Very exciting IMO. Although it is hard to mount an argument that Pendlebury would be any better at this than Ball, I suppose.

FWIW, and on the contrary to the above, I have heard that the players at Collingwood really idolise and respect Ball in a professional sense which is quite unrivalled amongst the group.

However I agree with many other posters - Maxwell has the job as long as he wants it; the captaincy of Collingwood is not like the captaincy of the Pakistani cricket team.

 

[Pie eyed]

To me our win loss ratio is not a reflection on Maxwell's captaincy but a well rounded team that executes a great game plan by very clever coaching staff.

Yes he has inspirational moments in some games, but you can still be a passenger in a premiership winning team.

His onfield leadership is great, but when your football ability is not progressing and you go backwards as a player you should be dropped.

Would Maxwell get a game if he was not the captain..???

No. Don't agree.
Yes. He would be.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Re: Captaincy

I wanted Pendles captain BEFORE Maxy was made captain, so I want him captain even MORE now if it will help keep him.

But in all honesty, I'd have NO qualms with Luke Ball as captain. Would make his story that much better.

Imagine he becomes captain of Collingwood next year and we do the three-peat.

 

[Unknown Identity]

No. Don't agree.
Yes. He would be.

Really..? You don't think if he wasn't captain he would not have been dropped once.

Fact is, he hasn't been named in the best players once this season.
Even Fasolo who is a first year player has been named in the best.

Don't get me wrong, love his leadership qualities but his playing ability has decreased alot, another season like this year and there is no possible way he could hold his spot.

 

[Pie eyed]

Really..? You don't think if he wasn't captain he would not have been dropped once.

Fact is, he hasn't been named in the best players once this season.
Even Fasolo who is a first year player has been named in the best.

Don't get me wrong, love his leadership qualities but his playing ability has decreased alot, another season like this year and there is no possible way he could hold his spot.

I'm going by his history. He has never been dropped for performance issues, ever. Before or since being named captain.
You could argue that he could have been, but history suggests not.