Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Coops93]

His role is one I can't see an obvious replacement for on our list, we don't have anyone who jumps out as having that elite endurance and mental toughness to play that shut down role and still average that 20-25 touches a game.

Small sample size I know but so far this year he is way down on tackles, contested possessions, total disposals and clearances but is up on metres gained, score involvements and inside 50's - I haven't noticed a change in role but perhaps simply being the second touch player at the clearance rather than the first more often? SOmething to keep an eye on as the season unfolds.

Shortened qtrs could have something to do with it

 

[Gethelred]

Yeah we need to bank early wins. The next 3 games are massive for us. I suspect we end up part of the rolling WA hub later in the year given we’ve played neither WA side. It’s always tough to win over there and generally the hub teams have struggled so far this year.

Funnily enough, of all the Vic sides, I think we go okay over there more often than we don't. Other sides have gotten blasted off the park over there where we haven't, and we've had a few fairly notable wins against the trend over there as well.

How much of that interstate thing is crowd, how much is travel, and how much is mental? I think we can get over there and break a few hearts.

 

[DangerousD]

Wondering when Cain came out very early in the piece and revealed what type(s) of player(s) we were exactly in need of, did not really help things at all... Not trying to rehash old sh*t or hang him out here, besides how messy the way things ended up he’s membership rise and new sponsorships have been magnificent, but my thoughts at the time we’re although what others clubs may perceive what types you may need or chase you never reveal your hand, always wondered if that was one of a few things that started the downfall of things between certain parties ..It virtually takes away some of the leverage you hold trade wise... just a thought...

A few people have mentioned this and it confuses me, Papley and his team asked for a trade to Carlton, it was in the media, everyone knew our hand and what we wanted, it wasn’t a secret.
We pushed hard for Cogs a year after pushing hard for Shiel, it’s clear to all clubs, we are on the hunt for quality senior players. I really doubt that the CEO or coach saying anything, hinders our hand.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Agree, but chasing a small forward in the confines of the 50m arc is a little different than running up and down the wing all game.
I don’t think he’s a great matchup for a Charlie Cameron type - but not sure Plowman is either to be honest.
I know Plowman cops a lot of flak and his supporters will mention his top 3 finish in the B&F. I like him as a player and like him in the side - I just think he has been miscast in matchups with small forwards. I like him against the mid forwards (Greene, De Goey, Ratner, etc), but think he gets found out for pace a bit often.
We (and I include myself here) keep saying how badly we need small forwards - I think an equally pressing need is a dependable lockdown small defender.

Plowman sorted him last year at Etihad

 

[norway blue]

I see this mentioned a bit.

Could you provide a basis as to why and how moving Marchbank to a wing could be a successful move for us?

Maybe to train him to run both ways in game between the arcs.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

A few people have mentioned this and it confuses me, Papley and his team asked for a trade to Carlton, it was in the media, everyone knew our hand and what we wanted, it wasn’t a secret.
We pushed hard for Cogs a year after pushing hard for Shiel, it’s clear to all clubs, we are on the hunt for quality senior players. I really doubt that the CEO or coach saying anything, hinders our hand.

Understand exactly what you’re explained DD it might have been common knowledge what players types we we’re needing or chasing, i just don’t think you should be declaring what types of players your club needs or are interested in, i just think it should be kept in house... Anyway no biggie just the way I’d do it...

 

[Jeremias]

Good luck bursting away from him

Yeah. Not many will be able to do it.

I actually really like this option for Sam, as a way to get him accustomed to midfield time.

He may well start across half forward but I'd love to see him spend time on the ball. Give him some tough assignments early on against some of the best in the game and see how he handles it.

Sink or swim kind of thing. Given his character I'm guessing he'll well and truly swim.

 

[Matty411]

News just dropped about Round 6 fixture, with us playing the Swans at the G'. Happy with that - another good test on home soil. Should be able to take them on and push for another win if we're serious.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Funnily enough, of all the Vic sides, I think we go okay over there more often than we don't. Other sides have gotten blasted off the park over there where we haven't, and we've had a few fairly notable wins against the trend over there as well.

How much of that interstate thing is crowd, how much is travel, and how much is mental? I think we can get over there and break a few hearts.

I love us playing in WA

 

[Jabba73]

Funnily enough, of all the Vic sides, I think we go okay over there more often than we don't. Other sides have gotten blasted off the park over there where we haven't, and we've had a few fairly notable wins against the trend over there as well.

How much of that interstate thing is crowd, how much is travel, and how much is mental? I think we can get over there and break a few hearts.

That’s because we play in WA twice every season, have had plenty of practice. The Pies are (Un)lucky if they head to Perth once every two seasons so are not used to it.

 

[Matty411]

Also might have a little something to do with the fact half our list are from WA, Gethelred

Not really, but a fair whack.

 

[Lace_Out]

True - but that works the other way too.
While Marchy is an excellent mark and has good agility for a KPB, I feel he would be found out for speed and endurance against the majority of wingmen in the league.
Also, while he is an OK kick I’m not sure he’s the one we want delivering into the F50.
Happy to be proven wrong though, as ideally I’d love to have him in the 22.
I honestly think he and Plowman are competing for the same role in the backline.

Pretty sure Marchbanks speed and endurance are very good. His reading of the play helps mask any such deficiency.
Never forget the game he played on the wing after having been out for an extended period, he stood out so much as he dominated.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[footyfan1978]

I love us playing in WA

It's really annoying we have a home game posted for MCG against interstate club in Swans when we got no crowds anyway so one of our few MCG home games wasted and if we do ever get crowds back in Melbourne this season it means in all likelihood our later games will be interstate and less at MCG too now.
I would have much preferred us spending 3 or 4 weeks in Perth where our Perth fans could at least go in person and also get more away games out of way now so we got better chance ourselves of home games in August or September. Hate to be drawn games interstate when our grounds do open up for crowds here. But the more games home now means less chance when it would really benefit us. Frustrating to see other clubs get much luckier and will avoid away games later in season.

 

[Lace_Out]

I see this mentioned a bit.

Could you provide a basis as to why and how moving Marchbank to a wing could be a successful move for us?

If you can fond a big mobile wingman it's hard to match them for size, we get a good match up our way. He has all the attributes to do it, and has done it. I just can't remember the game, it was after a big lay off, either last year or 2018.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Bluebag13]

It's really annoying we have a home game posted for MCG against interstate club in Swans when we got no crowds anyway so one of our few MCG home games wasted and if we do ever get crowds back in Melbourne this season it means in all likelihood our later games will be interstate and less at MCG too now.
I would have much preferred us spending 3 or 4 weeks in Perth where our Perth fans could at least go in person and also get more away games out of way now so we got better chance ourselves of home games in August or September. Hate to be drawn games interstate when our grounds do open up for crowds here. But the more games home now means less chance when it would really benefit us. Frustrating to see other clubs get much luckier and will avoid away games later in season.

I prefer it this way. Start the year off strong for once and we have a real chance of doing it. Imagine the belief and confidence we will get after winning 4 in a row. Doesnt matter where we will play after that.

 

[footyfan1978]

I prefer it this way. Start the year off strong for once and we have a real chance of doing it. Imagine the belief and confidence we will get after winning 4 in a row. Doesnt matter where we will play after that.

I prefer to have fans at games. Perth based Carlton fans would have enjoyed 3 or 4 weeks of Carlton over there and perfect whilst Melbourne based Carlton fans cannot go.

 

[Bluebag13]

I prefer to have fans at games. Perth based Carlton fans would have enjoyed 3 or 4 weeks of Carlton over there and perfect whilst Melbourne based Carlton fans cannot go.

Yeah fair point. It would be massive for them. Probably the only time ever that WA blues fans will get to see 3-4games back to back.
I looking at it from the point of the fixture who we are playing and where.

 

[F_therest]

It's really annoying we have a home game posted for MCG against interstate club in Swans when we got no crowds anyway so one of our few MCG home games wasted and if we do ever get crowds back in Melbourne this season it means in all likelihood our later games will be interstate and less at MCG too now.
I would have much preferred us spending 3 or 4 weeks in Perth where our Perth fans could at least go in person and also get more away games out of way now so we got better chance ourselves of home games in August or September. Hate to be drawn games interstate when our grounds do open up for crowds here. But the more games home now means less chance when it would really benefit us. Frustrating to see other clubs get much luckier and will avoid away games later in season.

I am very happy we're playing Sydney at the G in round 6...our next 3 games are at the MCG and against Essendon, Saints & Sydney...all very winnable after a reasonably tough opening draw that included Richmond & Geelong in Geelong. I think early wins are vital for us, since we're a team that have basically already been out of the finals race by round 3 in previous years...it's important we build belief early and stay in the hunt.

By rd 6 Perth are allowing fans into the stadium, but the borders will still be closed, meaning Collingwood & Geelong will face an extremely tough task as the crowd will be even more one-sided than usual, and their first time playing in front of large crowds this season.

 

[iAsbestos]

Throw him on a wing, very difficult for opposition to match up on him.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

has he got the pace?

 

[Gethelred]

If you can fond a big mobile wingman it's hard to match them for size, we get a good match up our way. He has all the attributes to do it, and has done it. I just can't remember the game, it was after a big lay off, either last year or 2018.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Here are my issues:

Marchbank's mobility is relative; he's not mobile compared to other wingers, he's mobile compared to other talls. He can and will get burnt for pace by almost every single other wing in the comp, without them doing very much. He is agile for a tall not a small. The only place he could get them is through height and marking, and as long as we have one of Casboult, Gov or Charlie down the line (playing CHF or merely a chopout kick) his marking doesn't really add anything we don't already have.

A winger needs to have good disposal. Marchbank's kicking is good (certainly, it's better than a lot of people think it is) but it is not quite at the right level IMO. You can forgive that in a KPD (he's either going for safe kicks first or moving to the other wing where you've got players out in space, so precision isn't as important compared to distance) but you can't really in a winger. It's why I didn't want Ellis last year; for such an able winger, his disposal is awful.

Finally, one of the key issues I had with us under Ratts was that we continuously tried to shove round pegs into square holes. Marchbank has trained most of his life to become a key defender who intercepts opposition entries. We have a player who is 29 in that position right now, and he might last a year or he might last 5; we know due to history that KPP generally succumb to time ahead of smalls.

If we want a winger, let's recruit one.

 

[Kruezing]

Here are my issues:

Marchbank's mobility is relative; he's not mobile compared to other wingers, he's mobile compared to other talls. He can and will get burnt for pace by almost every single other wing in the comp, without them doing very much. He is agile for a tall not a small. The only place he could get them is through height and marking, and as long as we have one of Casboult, Gov or Charlie down the line (playing CHF or merely a chopout kick) his marking doesn't really add anything we don't already have.

A winger needs to have good disposal. Marchbank's kicking is good (certainly, it's better than a lot of people think it is) but it is not quite at the right level IMO. You can forgive that in a KPD (he's either going for safe kicks first or moving to the other wing where you've got players out in space, so precision isn't as important compared to distance) but you can't really in a winger. It's why I didn't want Ellis last year; for such an able winger, his disposal is awful.

Finally, one of the key issues I had with us under Ratts was that we continuously tried to shove round pegs into square holes. Marchbank has trained most of his life to become a key defender who intercepts opposition entries. We have a player who is 29 in that position right now, and he might last a year or he might last 5; we know due to history that KPP generally succumb to time ahead of smalls.

If we want a winger, let's recruit one.

Good post. I’m thinking Willo may become one of those wingers ... has all the attributes for the position ...

 

[Chookaradley]

Interesting synopsis of where we are at.

 

[footyfan1978]

I am very happy we're playing Sydney at the G in round 6...our next 3 games are at the MCG and against Essendon, Saints & Sydney...all very winnable after a reasonably tough opening draw that included Richmond & Geelong in Geelong. I think early wins are vital for us, since we're a team that have basically already been out of the finals race by round 3 in previous years...it's important we build belief early and stay in the hunt.

By rd 6 Perth are allowing fans into the stadium, but the borders will still be closed, meaning Collingwood & Geelong will face an extremely tough task as the crowd will be even more one-sided than usual, and their first time playing in front of large crowds this season.

There are many different angles to all this. With a fixture so in state of flux it is also financially better to have more games at MCG as home games later on be saved for us getting a decent crowd in. I just sense other clubs are getting in better situation to be advantaged at back end by having home games and home crowds in a bunch of games at ground that is better for others than us. We are virtually going to look like one of only few clubs that probably going to have bulk of our games with either disadvantages or no advantages at all. I can see clubs like Richmond getting a bank of games later at MCG against other high drawing teams more so than Swans etc all due to luck of things like getting an "Away" game banked early against Eagles not in Perth so they avoid later on any disadvantage of going to Perth when Eagles got over 56,000 of their own biased crowd helping their cause get umps in their favour etc.

Similarly, I'd rather be Pies going now with only half ground full of Eagles fans than in two months time when it more to usual Eagles big advantage.

It just would have worked out so much better long term to get more away games right now whilst the disadvantages of playing away are not really the issue they likely to be at back end of season. Due to only play teams once, if you play a team away now you avoid more away games later, when it really far more pronounced.
Plus, I would just rather back ended home games be programmed more to attend myself which is far greater chance in two months than now. Home games now are not really home games for fans as such. Watching on tv if game here or there is no different. The clubs playing more games away now will get the advantage later I belief. Some of them are going to be big advantages too by looks of it.

 

[Gethelred]

Interesting synopsis of where we are at.

It's interesting but fails to take into account the Lion's much stronger home ground advantage. which grants a side a capacity to both win more games and to win games at home by more.

We don't have that luxury, except when playing interstate sides in Melbourne. There is also a weakness in Pythagorean wins based analysis in that injury and fixture are not taken into account, and both play a role in determining percentage.

 

[carlton_99]

Sam Edmund on Twitter going with our rd 7 match-up being against Gold Coast at Metricon. Also confirmed that McKay (as stated by barass) will miss this week against * due to rib damage.