The Chinese Communist party are campaigners

[Seeds]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Those in detention have a land where they are not locked up. Those in chinese concentration camps do not.

ps. I think our detention camps will be looked on with horror by future generations and a cause of great national shame. But they arent the same.

if we started rounding up muslims who live in australia then that would be the same.

 

[IKE TURNER]

the whole thing about china is they are ruthless in their attempt to pretty much take over the world by any means possible,their human rights record is terrible but as long as we can sell them stuff and buy cheap stuff off them we will turn a blind eye

 

[wahooo]

the whole thing about china is they are ruthless in their attempt to pretty much take over the world by any means possible,their human rights record is terrible but as long as we can sell them stuff and buy cheap stuff off them we will turn a blind eye

Are they taking over the world or simply restoring their country to its former glory?

As the west developed they exploited people and lands there was a little thing called slavery and colonialism. Fair to say our human rights records was also atrocious.

The belt and road project, if viewed in the most sinister fashion possible could be described as a form of neo-colonialism. Although, the CCP can't exert the same levels of violence the West did over its colonial subjects back in the day so instead they riddle them with debt. I'd prefer debt over brute force, extreme violence and slavery tbh.

For decades we've traded with China, turning a blind eye to their human rights abuses and what, now that Trump has cried China it's all too much for you lot? No one no longer craves cheap shit? We'll just endanger the jobs of millions of Australians and stop trading with our largest trading partner over night?

We can have a trading relationship with them whilst pressuring them to improve their human rights record, in fact that's probably the best way to go about it. Although, we look like dicks when we tell them to stop arbitrarily detaining people when we do the same bloody thing.

Anyhow, any impetus for change is likely to come from within China, from a rising middle class demanding more political rights with their newly attained wealth. The CCP will only grant the Chinese more political rights if it ensures the security of their regime.

 

[wahooo]

Those in detention have a land where they are not locked up. Those in chinese concentration camps do not.

ps. I think our detention camps will be looked on with horror by future generations and a cause of great national shame. But they arent the same.

if we started rounding up muslims who live in australia then that would be the same.

Yeah look the original comment I replied to said "pricks are keeping people in camps for religious beliefs", I asked aren't we doing the same thing?

And now, there's suggestions I'm trying to equate enforced labour camps to a detention centre. But frankly, I don't think, as Australians, that we should be satisfied because we're a little less in the grey than the CCP. Oh let's pat ourselves on the back, our detention centres are so much better than China's!

I'm currently writing an essay on the effects of minimum mandatory sentencing laws in Western Australia. Bloody hell, we may not be rounding up muslims but we sure are happy to round up and arbitrarily lock up Indigenous kids for some seriously petty shit.

 

[DidakDelight]

But why did ScoMo stick our head out demanding an enquiry alone?

...should have established a bloc of countries demanding such an enquiry before going public
.

It’s interesting how with climate change (where no one has died) we should be seen as “sticking our head out” and be leaders.

But with a global pandemic enquiry (with thousands of deaths) “we should establish a bloc of countries demanding action” before doing anything.

 

[Jello_B]

Yeah look the original comment I replied to said "pricks are keeping people in camps for religious beliefs", I asked aren't we doing the same thing?

And now, there's suggestions I'm trying to equate enforced labour camps to a detention centre. But frankly, I don't think, as Australians, that we should be satisfied because we're a little less in the grey than the CCP. Oh let's pat ourselves on the back, our detention centres are so much better than China's!

I'm currently writing an essay on the effects of minimum mandatory sentencing laws in Western Australia. Bloody hell, we may not be rounding up muslims but we sure are happy to round up and arbitrarily lock up Indigenous kids for some seriously petty shit.

We aren’t keeping people in camps because of their religious beliefs. This is why your response was not accurate.
This thread is criticising the CCP, anyone could go back in history and pull out some awful stuff that has happened by others, and say what you have said. How is that helpful? That’s the point, there has been change and we want to see change from China.
Restoring their former glory? In what regard and how far back are you going for this, they made a clock?
The CCP would happily takeover this country and change its political structure. They are already trying to do this to other countries. They are threatening Taiwan if the US cut them off. What other countries are doing this? It is strange to me that anyone in Australia would defend the chinese actions, when the current global order has treated us so well. Investing in manufacturing efficiency in a country is not a demonstration of support for that countries politic.
And the effect on the economy for this change in trade relationship is exactly what we need to be looking at and planning for.

 

[wahooo]

We aren’t keeping people in camps because of their religious beliefs. This is why your response was not accurate.
This thread is criticising the CCP, anyone could go back in history and pull out some awful stuff that has happened by others, and say what you have said. How is that helpful? That’s the point, there has been change and we want to see change from China.
Restoring their former glory? In what regard and how far back are you going for this, they made a clock?
The CCP would happily takeover this country and change its political structure. They are already trying to do this to other countries. They are threatening Taiwan if the US cut them off. What other countries are doing this? It is strange to me that anyone in Australia would defend the chinese actions, when the current global order has treated us so well. Investing in manufacturing efficiency in a country is not a demonstration of support for that countries politic.
And the effect on the economy for this change in trade relationship is exactly what we need to be looking at and planning for.

I think it is helpful to examine our own practices of arbitrary detention. When our foreign minister or PM make statements calling for an end to arbitrary detention in China we lack credibility. How could anyone take our calls seriously, when we too illegally detain people? The motivations and methods of such detention may differ but the fact of the matter is that we still arbitrarily detain people, it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I too am a vocal critic of the CCP's detention of their citizens and I simply hope that one day we can vehemently criticise the CCP's practices with at least a shred of credibility, without having to turn a blind eye to what's going on, on Manus Island.

They made a clock? What a disgusting attempt to deny China's long history, you look like a xenophobic fool when you make such ignorant comments. Frankly, I don't have the time to provide you with a recount of China's history, there is simply too much, the burden is on you to learn it for yourself, it's actually really interesting. They had massive empires, conducted a great deal of trade through complex tributary systems, they were a bloody superpower. Maybe start your reading at the Qing Dynasty, it's the most recent. It will really provide a great deal of context and enable you to better understand the motivations behind their expansion in modern times.

The CCP's dispute with Taiwan has its origins in civil war, to try use the Taiwan-China dispute as evidence that they'd be willing to invade Australia is flipping laughable, thanks for your uninformed hot-take on geopolitics.

I'm not defending the actions of the CCP, I'm providing context so that we can better understand the actions of the CCP.

I too agree that our economy is in trouble but that's due to a lack of resilience, not an over-reliance on China. We can build a more resilient and diversified economy without making some major shift away from China.

 

[wahooo]

It’s interesting how with climate change (where no one has died) we should be seen as “sticking our head out” and be leaders.

But with a global pandemic enquiry (with thousands of deaths) “we should establish a bloc of countries demanding action” before doing anything.

We’re is the consistency with that Australians expect from our leaders?

We're the dullards dragging our knuckles on climate change. For us to take a stronger stance on it would be to catch up to the international community not to be the leader of it or as you say "sticking our head out". Not to mention, climate change isn't some contentious issue that taking a stronger stance on would invite some harsh crackdown from the CCP.

When Australian jobs are on the line you generally don't front up alone to a country that dwarfs your own, one your economy is entirely dependent on and one that has a history of brazenly punishing countries who disagree with it. Bet those beef and barley farmers will be really stoked about the international inquiry if they can't put food on the table.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Are they taking over the world or simply restoring their country to its former glory?

As the west developed they exploited people and lands there was a little thing called slavery and colonialism. Fair to say our human rights records was also atrocious.

The belt and road project, if viewed in the most sinister fashion possible could be described as a form of neo-colonialism. Although, the CCP can't exert the same levels of violence the West did over its colonial subjects back in the day so instead they riddle them with debt. I'd prefer debt over brute force, extreme violence and slavery tbh.

For decades we've traded with China, turning a blind eye to their human rights abuses and what, now that Trump has cried China it's all too much for you lot? No one no longer craves cheap shit? We'll just endanger the jobs of millions of Australians and stop trading with our largest trading partner over night?

We can have a trading relationship with them whilst pressuring them to improve their human rights record, in fact that's probably the best way to go about it. Although, we look like dicks when we tell them to stop arbitrarily detaining people when we do the same bloody thing.

Anyhow, any impetus for change is likely to come from within China, from a rising middle class demanding more political rights with their newly attained wealth. The CCP will only grant the Chinese more political rights if it ensures the security of their regime.

The CCP want China to take their turn at being a colonial power. Just when everyone else has decided colonialism was a bad thing and didn't work. They are not content with just being a peaceful and prosperous place, they want to go on a dick waving world tour. They have some very silly policies like their stupid 9-dash line in the SCS which are openly aggressive and inviting a confrontation.

 

[wahooo]

The CCP want China to take their turn at being a colonial power. Just when everyone else has decided colonialism was a bad thing and didn't work. They are not content with just being a peaceful and prosperous place, they want to go on a dick waving world tour. They have some very silly policies like their stupid 9-dash line in the SCS which are openly aggressive and inviting a confrontation.

The West is far more subtle in their involvement with their colonial subjects now but exploitation still occurs. Look at France and their relationships with their colonial subjects and try tell me that it's a fair, relationship between equally sovereign states.

I feel your argument whittles down to this; the West has climbed the ladder of tariffs, slavery, colonialism and exploitation. They now sit at the top of the developed world and with their new found enlightenment they've decided all the things they did to get to the top are unfair and that no other country should be able to do the same, so they kick away the ladder so that no other country can challenge their 'superiority'.

China represents a challenge to this Western superiority and its got you lot quaking in your boots with fear of imminent invasion, how dare they climb the same ladder we climbed.

I doubt China views their expansions in the South China Sea as aggressive. They would consider it a measure to defend themselves by regaining old territory. Viewed objectively, their actions in the SCS are a bit ****ed up but it's no surprise given the insecurities of the CCP.

The CCP claims to subscribe to Confucian values and under those Confucian values they consider themselves to be benevolent and peaceful world leaders. Make of that what you will, I think it's cute.

 

[Admiral Byng]

The West is far more subtle in their involvement with their colonial subjects now but exploitation still occurs. Look at France and their relationships with their colonial subjects and try tell me that it's a fair, relationship between equally sovereign states.

I feel your argument whittles down to this; the West has climbed the ladder of tariffs, slavery, colonialism and exploitation. They now sit at the top of the developed world and with their new found enlightenment they've decided all the things they did to get to the top are unfair and that no other country should be able to do the same, so they kick away the ladder so that no other country can challenge their 'superiority'.

China represents a challenge to this Western superiority and its got you lot quaking in your boots with fear of imminent invasion, how dare they climb the same ladder we climbed.

I doubt China views their expansions in the South China Sea as aggressive. They would consider it a measure to defend themselves by regaining old territory. Viewed objectively, their actions in the SCS are a bit f’ed up but it's no surprise given the insecurities of the CCP.

The CCP claims to subscribe to Confucian values and under those Confucian values they consider themselves to be benevolent and peaceful world leaders. Make of that what you will, I think it's cute.

this is an argument based upon 'everybody else is doing it too", which never works as a moral justification. There's still a lot of post-colonial mess to be sorted out, particularly in West Africa and the way France manipulates their economies by controlling the currency. The fact that these problems are hard to solve and take decades to undo is not reason to think it is OK for China go ahead and do the same thing and set off another whole cycle of it. The old colonial trade system of the West is starting to shrink now and their influence waning, "the West" have now largely retreated into their own closed curtains trading bloc, with a few notable outliers.

 

[wahooo]

this is an argument based upon 'everybody else is doing it too", which never works as a moral justification. There's still a lot of post-colonial mess to be sorted out, particularly in West Africa and the way France manipulates their economies by controlling the currency. The fact that these problems are hard to solve and take decades to undo is not reason to think it is OK for China go ahead and do the same thing and set off another whole cycle of it. The old colonial trade system of the West is starting to shrink now and their influence waning, "the West" have now largely retreated into their own closed curtains trading bloc, with a few notable outliers.

That's the thing, China doesn't go about in exactly the same way the West did.

They offer up money for infrastructure projects with very few strings attached, compared to aid given by the West from say the IMF it's extremely appealing as it doesn't force countries to adopt monetary/fiscal policies settings that may not suit their circumstances. God there's so many IMF horror stories, I'd take the Chinese money and cross my fingers that I'd be able to repay it too. We only have ourselves to blame that countries in Africa or the Pacific are so willing to accept China's money. Ultimately, they default on the repayments, offer a 99 year lease and off we go.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

I think it is helpful to examine our own practices of arbitrary detention. When our foreign minister or PM make statements calling for an end to arbitrary detention in China we lack credibility. How could anyone take our calls seriously, when we too illegally detain people? The motivations and methods of such detention may differ but the fact of the matter is that we still arbitrarily detain people, it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I too am a vocal critic of the CCP's detention of their citizens and I simply hope that one day we can vehemently criticise the CCP's practices with at least a shred of credibility, without having to turn a blind eye to what's going on, on Manus Island.

They made a clock? What a disgusting attempt to deny China's long history, you look like a xenophobic fool when you make such ignorant comments. Frankly, I don't have the time to provide you with a recount of China's history, there is simply too much, the burden is on you to learn it for yourself, it's actually really interesting. They had massive empires, conducted a great deal of trade through complex tributary systems, they were a bloody superpower. Maybe start your reading at the Qing Dynasty, it's the most recent. It will really provide a great deal of context and enable you to better understand the motivations behind their expansion in modern times.

The CCP's dispute with Taiwan has its origins in civil war, to try use the Taiwan-China dispute as evidence that they'd be willing to invade Australia is f*n laughable, thanks for your uninformed hot-take on geopolitics.

I'm not defending the actions of the CCP, I'm providing context so that we can better understand the actions of the CCP.

I too agree that our economy is in trouble but that's due to a lack of resilience, not an over-reliance on China. We can build a more resilient and diversified economy without making some major shift away from China.

You can be against both twit it's not that hard

 

[Jello_B]

I think it is helpful to examine our own practices of arbitrary detention. When our foreign minister or PM make statements calling for an end to arbitrary detention in China we lack credibility. How could anyone take our calls seriously, when we too illegally detain people? The motivations and methods of such detention may differ but the fact of the matter is that we still arbitrarily detain people, it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I too am a vocal critic of the CCP's detention of their citizens and I simply hope that one day we can vehemently criticise the CCP's practices with at least a shred of credibility, without having to turn a blind eye to what's going on, on Manus Island.

They made a clock? What a disgusting attempt to deny China's long history, you look like a xenophobic fool when you make such ignorant comments. Frankly, I don't have the time to provide you with a recount of China's history, there is simply too much, the burden is on you to learn it for yourself, it's actually really interesting. They had massive empires, conducted a great deal of trade through complex tributary systems, they were a bloody superpower. Maybe start your reading at the Qing Dynasty, it's the most recent. It will really provide a great deal of context and enable you to better understand the motivations behind their expansion in modern times.

The CCP's dispute with Taiwan has its origins in civil war, to try use the Taiwan-China dispute as evidence that they'd be willing to invade Australia is f*n laughable, thanks for your uninformed hot-take on geopolitics.

I'm not defending the actions of the CCP, I'm providing context so that we can better understand the actions of the CCP.

I too agree that our economy is in trouble but that's due to a lack of resilience, not an over-reliance on China. We can build a more resilient and diversified economy without making some major shift away from China.

Ok calm down on the clock but how far back are you going with your comments about restoring their former glory? I have read and continue to read the history but thanks.
Explain why China are using Taiwan in their conversations with the US. Do you support the Taiwanese in their commitment to separating from China?
And what are you helping us understand about the actions of the CCP. You are the one comparing the CCP actions to Australians detaining individuals illegally entering our country. It’s not the same.

 

[Jello_B]

The West is far more subtle in their involvement with their colonial subjects now but exploitation still occurs. Look at France and their relationships with their colonial subjects and try tell me that it's a fair, relationship between equally sovereign states.

I feel your argument whittles down to this; the West has climbed the ladder of tariffs, slavery, colonialism and exploitation. They now sit at the top of the developed world and with their new found enlightenment they've decided all the things they did to get to the top are unfair and that no other country should be able to do the same, so they kick away the ladder so that no other country can challenge their 'superiority'.

China represents a challenge to this Western superiority and its got you lot quaking in your boots with fear of imminent invasion, how dare they climb the same ladder we climbed.

I doubt China views their expansions in the South China Sea as aggressive. They would consider it a measure to defend themselves by regaining old territory. Viewed objectively, their actions in the SCS are a bit f’ed up but it's no surprise given the insecurities of the CCP.

The CCP claims to subscribe to Confucian values and under those Confucian values they consider themselves to be benevolent and peaceful world leaders. Make of that what you will, I think it's cute.

The west isn’t kicking away the ladder, it pulled China up with it. That has to be the way forward, cooperation. China is behaving like a baby because the west want to investigate how China managed to shut down the world. How is this inline with modern principles. And cute? The Chinese would have no issues manipulating, stealing and cheating their way into taking over the world. Why should anyone from the west put up with that?

 

[wahooo]

Ok calm down on the clock but how far back are you going with your comments about restoring their former glory? I have read and continue to read the history but thanks.
Explain why China are using Taiwan in their conversations with the US. Do you support the Taiwanese in their commitment to separating from China?
And what are you helping us understand about the actions of the CCP. You are the one comparing the CCP actions to Australians detaining individuals illegally entering our country. It’s not the same.

I have read the history says the bloke who reduced China's historical achievements to making a clock and who seems unaware as to the reasons why Taiwan is such a political football between the US and China.

Ps, not illegal to seek asylum.

The west isn’t kicking away the ladder, it pulled China up with it. That has to be the way forward, cooperation. China is behaving like a baby because the west want to investigate how China managed to shut down the world. How is this inline with modern principles. And cute? The Chinese would have no issues manipulating, stealing and cheating their way into taking over the world. Why should anyone from the west put up with that?

The West is trying to contain China's rise, they're certainly not helping them.

I was suggesting that China thinking they're benevolent/peaceful world leaders is cute, in that they're not as benevolent/peaceful as they like to think. Tone down your outrage and read.

I agree completely the way forward is cooperation, not halting trade as many on this thread are suggesting.

 

[Jello_B]

I have read the history says the bloke who reduced China's historical achievements to making a clock and who seems unaware as to the reasons why Taiwan is such a political football between the US and China.

Ps, not illegal to seek asylum.

The West is trying to contain China's rise, they're certainly not helping them.

I was suggesting that China thinking they're benevolent/peaceful world leaders is cute, in that they're not as benevolent/peaceful as they like to think. Tone down your outrage and read.

I agree completely the way forward is cooperation, not halting trade as many on this thread are suggesting.

No I’m aware of Taiwan, you didn’t answer my question by the way (which didn’t surprise me). So I’ll have another go. Should Taiwan be recognised and allowed to be completely separate from China?
Here is another one, should China be denied access to and internationally condemned for their actions in the South China Sea?
Also, my original question (around the clock), which era are you taking about that China can restore its former glory? Should other former superpowers start working on this as well? What would that look like.

 

[wahooo]

No I’m aware of Taiwan, you didn’t answer my question by the way (which didn’t surprise me). So I’ll have another go. Should Taiwan be recognised and allowed to be completely separate from China?
Here is another one, should China be denied access to and internationally condemned for their actions in the South China Sea?
Also, my original question (around the clock), which era are you taking about that China can restore its former glory? Should other former superpowers start working on this as well? What would that look like.

I love how you think you have me pinned down with some hypothetical of "should Taiwan be allowed to separate from China". What a bullshit question, who besides the Taiwanese people themselves should have any right to answer that question? You've essentially asked me to speculate on what the people of Taiwan want as if its ya big "gotcha" moment.

Seeing as you're so desperate to have me impart my wisdom upon you I will grace you with my opinion on the matter.

I, like anyone, have my biases and my sympathies have always lied with Taiwan, with democratic principles they just make a more natural ally. The question of what Taiwan's future looks like should be decided by their people, currently (with the DPP in power) it's clear that re-unification under Taiwan's own free will is unlikely and they certainly wouldn't support reunification under the CCP in any circumstances. I think it's safe to say that with the DPP in power the majority of Taiwanese are probably not in favour of reunification, with public opinion leaning towards independence. However, the KMT obviously still support reunification under the ROC.

I'm not willing to make a conclusion because I'm not arrogant enough to pretend to know what the people of Taiwan want, although there seems to be public support for independence, large segments of their society still support reunification under the ROC. And there's the litany of questions that follows; what kind of response would separation elicit from China? Separation is particularly dangerous for Taiwan, what do they benefit from inviting the wrath of the CCP?

On your second question (as ridiculous as the last), NO China should not be denied access to SCS. The West has always sought to uphold freedom of navigation and it would be a striking back flip to revert on that position. We can condemn their actions in the South China Sea without denying them access.

And your third question, once again congratulations on yet another big gotcha moment, doing well son. Throughout its long history China has had many empires/dynasties, each with their own successes and failures. Some have seen immense territorial expansion through conquest while others have seen great loss of territory, some have been richer and some have been poorer. The point is each dynasty is distinct from one another, it's a very diverse history. By and large, the Chinese are very proud of their history and to suggest that I should point to one era in that LONG history and say "ah yes, this is the era they wish to restore themselves to" is ****ing ridiculous. The point I was making is that the Chinese people are proud of their history, many see the West's influence as having coincided with their decline (the Opium Wars and carving up of China by Imperialists may ring a bell) and the CCP commonly tap into this sentiment when they talk about expanding China's influence.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

If you

I love how you think you have me pinned down with some hypothetical of "should Taiwan be allowed to separate from China". What a bullshit question, who besides the Taiwanese people themselves should have any right to answer that question? You've essentially asked me to speculate on what the people of Taiwan want as if its ya big "gotcha" moment.

Seeing as you're so desperate to have me impart my wisdom upon you I will grace you with my opinion on the matter.

I, like anyone, have my biases and my sympathies have always lied with Taiwan, with democratic principles they just make a more natural ally. The question of what Taiwan's future looks like should be decided by their people, currently (with the DPP in power) it's clear that re-unification under Taiwan's own free will is unlikely and they certainly wouldn't support reunification under the CCP in any circumstances. I think it's safe to say that with the DPP in power the majority of Taiwanese are probably not in favour of reunification, with public opinion leaning towards independence. However, the KMT obviously still support reunification under the ROC.

I'm not willing to make a conclusion because I'm not arrogant enough to pretend to know what the people of Taiwan want, although there seems to be public support for independence, large segments of their society still support reunification under the ROC. And there's the litany of questions that follows; what kind of response would separation elicit from China? Separation is particularly dangerous for Taiwan, what do they benefit from inviting the wrath of the CCP?

On your second question (as ridiculous as the last), NO China should not be denied access to SCS. The West has always sought to uphold freedom of navigation and it would be a striking back flip to revert on that position. We can condemn their actions in the South China Sea without denying them access.

And your third question, once again congratulations on yet another big gotcha moment, doing well son. Throughout its long history China has had many empires/dynasties, each with their own successes and failures. Some have seen immense territorial expansion through conquest while others have seen great loss of territory, some have been richer and some have been poorer. The point is each dynasty is distinct from one another, it's a very diverse history. By and large, the Chinese are very proud of their history and to suggest that I should point to one era in that LONG history and say "ah yes, this is the era they wish to restore themselves to" is ******* ridiculous. The point I was making is that the Chinese people are proud of their history, many see the West's influence as having coincided with their decline (the Opium Wars and carving up of China by Imperialists may ring a bell) and the CCP commonly tap into this sentiment when they talk about expanding China's influence.

I know China's history too. Confuscious is superior and will rule over other minorities.

Might be time to move on and fast with what the West might ha e done considering what china have done to Tibet the urghyers and how they act now with the pandemic...

And speaking of the present it's a shameful time to be Chinese if they can revil in the history of past glories.

Also twit the West have not all been equal colonizers. 30 per cent of Australians for instance claim Irish ancestry perhaps the ccp should be teaching a more nuanced and academic reflection upon history of the West but not allowed they've been killing intellectuals for a century.

 

[wahooo]

If you


I know China's history too. Confuscious is superior and will rule over other minorities.

Might be time to move on and fast with what the West might ha e done considering what china have done to Tibet the urghyers and how they act now with the pandemic...

And speaking of the present it's a shameful time to be Chinese if they can revil in the history of past glories.

Also twit the West have not all been equal colonizers. 30 per cent of Australians for instance claim Irish ancestry perhaps the ccp should be teaching a more nuanced and academic reflection upon history of the West but not allowed they've been killing intellectuals for a century.

Haha oh dear, no amount of edits is going to fix that mate. Iso got you hitting those beers hard hey?

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Haha oh dear, no amount of edits is going to fix that mate. Iso got you hitting those beers hard hey?

I'm typing on my phone... idiot...
Maybe instead of trying to win arguments maybe a better approach is understanding another's perspective and I can assure you what I posted is very valid.

You're actually nothing more than a troll. You don't want to engage

You're pigheaded and theres no attempt by you to bring some nuance to the discussion

 

[Jello_B]

I love how you think you have me pinned down with some hypothetical of "should Taiwan be allowed to separate from China". What a bullshit question, who besides the Taiwanese people themselves should have any right to answer that question? You've essentially asked me to speculate on what the people of Taiwan want as if its ya big "gotcha" moment.

Seeing as you're so desperate to have me impart my wisdom upon you I will grace you with my opinion on the matter.

I, like anyone, have my biases and my sympathies have always lied with Taiwan, with democratic principles they just make a more natural ally. The question of what Taiwan's future looks like should be decided by their people, currently (with the DPP in power) it's clear that re-unification under Taiwan's own free will is unlikely and they certainly wouldn't support reunification under the CCP in any circumstances. I think it's safe to say that with the DPP in power the majority of Taiwanese are probably not in favour of reunification, with public opinion leaning towards independence. However, the KMT obviously still support reunification under the ROC.

I'm not willing to make a conclusion because I'm not arrogant enough to pretend to know what the people of Taiwan want, although there seems to be public support for independence, large segments of their society still support reunification under the ROC. And there's the litany of questions that follows; what kind of response would separation elicit from China? Separation is particularly dangerous for Taiwan, what do they benefit from inviting the wrath of the CCP?

On your second question (as ridiculous as the last), NO China should not be denied access to SCS. The West has always sought to uphold freedom of navigation and it would be a striking back flip to revert on that position. We can condemn their actions in the South China Sea without denying them access.

And your third question, once again congratulations on yet another big gotcha moment, doing well son. Throughout its long history China has had many empires/dynasties, each with their own successes and failures. Some have seen immense territorial expansion through conquest while others have seen great loss of territory, some have been richer and some have been poorer. The point is each dynasty is distinct from one another, it's a very diverse history. By and large, the Chinese are very proud of their history and to suggest that I should point to one era in that LONG history and say "ah yes, this is the era they wish to restore themselves to" is ******* ridiculous. The point I was making is that the Chinese people are proud of their history, many see the West's influence as having coincided with their decline (the Opium Wars and carving up of China by Imperialists may ring a bell) and the CCP commonly tap into this sentiment when they talk about expanding China's influence.

So Taiwan we agree on. SCS we agree on. What’s with all of these gotcha anyways, you seemed to be heading down a pathway of having all of these online thoughts but not actually stating a position. You stated your actual positions so good. Our positions generally align.
With regards to your third point, it’s pointless saying some historic power wants to return to that. It’s a long time ago. Anyways gotta run. Have a breather it’s a Sunday.

 

[wahooo]

I'm typing on my phone... idiot...
Maybe instead of trying to win arguments maybe a better approach is understanding another's perspective and I can assure you what I posted is very valid.

You're actually nothing more than a troll. You don't want to engage

You're pigheaded and theres no attempt by you to bring some nuance to the discussion

All you've done is throw around insults, you're lucky I replied to you in the first place, run along.

Ps, you really over use the word twit, if you're going to consistently attack people go for a bit of variety.

 

[wahooo]

So Taiwan we agree on. SCS we agree on. What’s with all of these gotcha anyways, you seemed to be heading down a pathway of having all of these online thoughts but not actually stating a position. You stated your actual positions so good. Our positions generally align.
With regards to your third point, it’s pointless saying some historic power wants to return to that. It’s a long time ago. Anyways gotta run. Have a breather it’s a Sunday.

The third point is the kind of rhetoric the CCP uses to justify its behaviour in the South China Sea, it's highly relevant.

 

[Sainteric]

Something about people in glass houses.

Let's not forget that our government is illegally detaining asylum seekers.

Ooh FFS are we murdering 100,000s locking up a million Muslims and throwing anyone in jail without an independent judiciary and beating them because we just can?