Roast The Chronicles of Alan Richardson - Part II - Richo Resigns (16/07)

[Saints43]

Im going to guess that the people who interviewed him, looked at his resume and talked to his referees know more about his experience than someone who did a google search.

You can go with that once you explain why so many staff hired at Moorabbin have been hopeless at their jobs

 

[austinnn]

It's a pretty interesting state of affairs amongst the supporters on here at the moment. This talk that the club will be close to folding if we keep Richo seems very over the top to me. To be honest the club is in a very good position at the moment having just moved to Moorabbin and having more members than we've ever had. Ok our list isn't the greatest and we've had a bad season but it's not ALL bad is all I'm saying.

We are not going to fold. Please everyone get that into your heads because if you're saying stuff like that then it's clear you've let your emotional response to Richo cloud reality.

We have a long history of sacking coaches. Some part of me actually wants to see what Richo can do next year - he has said he wants us to be better and thinks we should be. If we sack him we will have a new coach but will it immediately fix everything? I just think a lot of people on here seem to WANT Richo to fail which is very bizarre because it means St Kilda is failing.

This idea that Richo is some conniving sadistic maniac hell-bent on personal gain at the expense of the club is utterly ridiculous too. I'm not sure he's the right guy to take us forward, but to suggest he is going to single-handedly bring down the club, again it's just over the top emotive nonsense. If he doesn't succeed next year then he'll be gone.

If he does succeed, we'll be happy, right?

God, thank you for saying this. I've been rolling my eyes at most of the pearl-clutching going on in this thread lately and I'm no fan of Richo. There is power in a movement, but Billy Bragg should have added that it can be negative not just positive. The Forever Whinging Echo Chamber.

 

[Greg1853]

God, thank you for saying this. I've been rolling my eyes at most of the pearl-clutching going on in this thread lately and I'm no fan of Richo. There is power in a movement, but Billy Bragg should have added that it can be negative not just positive. The Forever Whinging Echo Chamber.

I don't know that Gen whatevers know about Billy Bragg

 

[gringo2011]

The folding talk is an interesting one. I for one don't see it as hysterical at all.

How many teams have put up with a re-build upon a re-build and how did they go? Well, Melbourne and Brisbane are the best recent examples. But let's focus on Melbourne because I believe the AFL treat Brisbane differently because they are a northern team and Brisbane also had some success not too long ago.

Melbourne got in Bailey to do the hard re-build. They also had Schwab and Connolly in the background. It was all going ok until the whiff of tanking came in and then the bottom fell out results-wise. Neeld came in who was the wrong coach at the wrong time and they plummeted further until the AFL basically stepped in to rescue them once the supporters and the footy community had pretty much given up on them. Before 2006, Melbourne and us had been pretty similar results-wise. A Grand Final appearance, some ups and some downs but ultimately unable to go all the way.

Melbourne weren't too far off folding and the main reason was that most of their fans had given up on them. Once that happens as a sporting club, you are in a lot of trouble.

Back to us and I believe we are probably 60%-70% on the way to where Melbourne ended up. We have all the dominoes in place unfortunately.

1. Recruitment/development: Tick. The chicken or the egg stuff. We are not only shooting ourselves in the foot often with this by simply picking the wrong kid but the young blokes that do come into this environment don't reach their potential. So high draft picks mean absolutely nothing.
2. Questionable leadership:Tick. There have been some wins for Finnis and co but the Richo extension and the position it has put us in threatens to overshadow things like the move back to Moorrabbin. The debt, while it is something that can be debated about, is still used to bash us over the head whenever the media want to and in the case of the Saints, perception equals reality.
3. Coaching: Tick. Sport's unforgiving. Especially to a team like the Saints. Get 2 appointments in a row wrong and you are in trouble. Unfortunately, we have done just that.
4. Fans jumping off: Tick. Most on here are rusted on fans. Some may say it's an echo-chamber. I don't buy that, I think there is incredible frustration out there with rusted on fans judging on our crowds. God knows what the casual thinks.

So in light of the above, could we fold? I think, we have one last chance to halt the rot above and not turn into Melbourne and that is to get rid of Richo. No one says it will be a quick fix but it is the most important cog in a football club to get the right person in charge of tactics and vision for the club. If we select wisely, it will also help develop the young guys better to be part of a better environment daily. We have Ratten in place now which is a start.

If we don't change the coach and the bottom subsequently falls out which it is very likely to do, I could see folding/relocation happening. The world is changing all the time. Once the rusted-ons lose faith, there'll be no one else to stop the rot if we have another 5 years of poor performances in front of us where promising kids are not developed.

Kids and teenagers are more into Fortnite/Ultimate team sports games now because they can actually have an influence on the results. They also have a choice of sports from around the world at their fingertips. The idea of investing time and energy on a failing club like the Saints in a relatively small league globally is hardly attractive to them. Can you blame them? Like I said, the world has changed and sports like the AFL are going to have to adapt. I predict there will be causalities and with us going through re-build on re-build at the worst time possible, we'd be a perfect candidate.

We have the double trouble of having a poor side and not even a marquee player. My Richmond mates kids always had Dusty and J Roo etc. W are a boring team to watch, we have no big names and look a long way away from being successful. It really is dire at the moment. I'm not convinced we are handling it in a systematic way either.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I don't know that Gen whatevers know about Billy Bragg

They probably know less about Joe Hill.

 

[Drake Huggins]

Agree generally but the highlighted for me is the big concern. Is it realistic to expect that those huge TV deals are a given in the future?

I'm not sure what field you work in but there is (rightly) a lot of panic in the business world in some industries about different behaviours seen in the so-called "millennials" and their behaviour. I do some consulting for an online gambling client among other conventional gaming clients and they are rightly panicking because their base is getting older and older. Why? Younger people see gambling as completely pointless.. they' rather get their buzz from things they have more control over and are more social, like Fortnite and ultimate team games. These entertainment options have an addictive side to them no doubt, but not the same stigma as gambling or the same ability to ruin your life. You can't blame them for doing so!

For me, it's a bit similar with sport. For us older people sport was THE entertainment option, plus we had the emotional connection built up. For a lot of younger people, sport is one of many options. Even if a kid loves sport, you have global behemoths like the Premier League, NFL, NBA etc. as options. Plus all of those options have their video game equivalent where they can build their own team, set tactics etc. I predict St Kilda and AFL in general might well feel the pinch in 10-20 years when the goldmine that is TV rights dries up when the Millenials are holding the economic power and us oldies are on the way out.

A cracking post, NH. I'm afraid the whole competition is heading for a cliff. We won't see it, but as you mentioned, give it a few decades. It is, after all a provincial competition, specific to a very isolated spot and played by relatively few. Unless we can get the sub continent, China and America involved, even if only to a slight degree, it will drown in its own irrelevance.

The competition for our attention is just too great. I don't remember, even twenty years ago, that kids fanatically followed the NBA, NFL, EPL etc. the way the yoong folk 'o today do. Global communications, streaming and programs on demand have shifted the landscape forever. One year's salary for elite players in those comps are greater than our entire salary cap with our total debt thrown on top. No wonder kids want to chase the dream overseas. Just watch soccer gobble us up by 2050, if not earlier.

 

[Verdun66]

I think it's pretty easy to see why we went that way though, don't forget that when Trout took over his role in 2011 we were coming off scandal after scandal, and we were still burning dwarfs a year or two later, so I'd be shocked if he wasn't told by someone higher up that we needed to keep our noses ultra-clean for a while, and as such he wasn't to draft anyone with suspect personalities.

As such, it was around that time that they came out and said that character was immensely important with regards to our drafting/recruiting.

Despite coming off probably our 2nd-best 10 year period in the clubs history, our memberships had dropped off from memory and our "brand" had taken a beating from all the scandals (whether they were all our fault or not), so we really had to pull our heads in, and that meant pretty much only recruiting "choirboys" for a while.

Job done, we've been clean enough for long enough now, so I expect they'll be less stringent on that from now on, and may have loosened that up already in the past couple of years (starting with the recruitment of Carlisle).

I was going to write something like this until I found you had already written it Aussie. At our last crisis we were coming off a range of scandals, sponsors were getting thinner on the ground, we were stuck at Seaford, and the drafts we’d been trying to get guns out of were compromised by the new teams. Our first foray into a non-vanilla player was probably Carlisle. Sadly he plunged us back to the last set of scandals. He was going to be a bust....never play a game.....etc etc.

I believe we have come a long way since that happened. Better behaviour from the players, more sponsors, moved to Moorabbin, engagement with sectors of the community that were excluded. There is quite a lot of cynicism in here about those achievements.

We have some decent talent on the books, with a young list. But granted, we have no out and out stars. We have had a few busts. Not a Marquee player. And our coaching has been lacking. Both for the senior team and our development.

I have seen St Kilda as a basket case before, and we are not as bad as we’ve been. Far from it. I am not thrilled about the current state of affairs, but I am still encouraged and optimistic. I never really believed in the Road to 2018. I still think we need more talent and one way of doing it is to be down a while. I accept Geelong, Sydney and Hawthorn don’t do it that way. But we are where we are.

So I am not with the Doom and Gloom Merchants. Lot of Hindsight stuff going on. We were in worse shape 5,6 years ago, and in better shape now to move forward.

 

[stfan]

Im going to guess that the people who interviewed him, looked at his resume and talked to his referees know more about his experience than someone who did a google search.

You mean the same people that hired people without football experience to important football roles that they had no direct experience in before like Bains and Cox? The same ones that appointed our current Coach without a recent interview?

You have a lot more faith in them than I do. I just see the same process being rinsed and repeated. I am hoping for a different result this time.



This is how James described in his own words his former position:

As a Relationship Director, I am responsible for leading a sales team that manages existing clients and develops new business in the bank’s broader professional services markets – including architectural, engineering and consulting firms as well as our offering to the healthcare industry encompassing individual medical specialists, medical centres and private hospitals.

Maybe he is a nice bloke, many he is a great salesman etc. But the posts earlier to mine were suggesting that he was hired due to experience with contracts and the like. I do not see that in his work history.

What I see is another "L-Plate" appointment. Maybe he will be great at it, but let us not pretend that this is anything but a "Leap of Faith" appointment.

 

[stfan]

I have seen St Kilda as a basket case before, and we are not as bad as we’ve been. Far from it. I am not thrilled about the current state of affairs, but I am still encouraged and optimistic. I never really believed in the Road to 2018. I still think we need more talent and one way of doing it is to be down a while. I accept Geelong, Sydney and Hawthorn don’t do it that way. But we are where we are.

So I am not with the Doom and Gloom Merchants. Lot of Hindsight stuff going on. We were in worse shape 5,6 years ago, and in better shape now to move forward.

There is a platform to move forward with. But we are a long way back now.

We need several years of making good decisions and executing superbly to get us to being a competitive team again.

Personally I would have preferred due to the all the cumulative mistakes a fresher start with a new head coach. But we are not getting that, and so it is off to 2019 and beyond with the "hand-brake" of Richo still on.

This makes it even more critical to nail our trades and draft picks and to assemble a team of assistants and football operations staff to then make the most out of, and to develop, the players that we will enter 2019 with.

 

[Verdun66]

You mean the same people that hired people without football experience to important football roles that they had no direct experience in before like Bains and Cox? The same ones that appointed our current Coach without a recent interview?

You have a lot more faith in them they I do.



This is how James described in his own words his former position:

As a Relationship Director, I am responsible for leading a sales team that manages existing clients and develops new business in the bank’s broader professional services markets – including architectural, engineering and consulting firms as well as our offering to the healthcare industry encompassing individual medical specialists, medical centres and private hospitals.

Maybe he is a nice bloke, many he is a great salesman etc. But the posts earlier to mine were suggesting that he was hired due to experience with contracts and the like. I do not see that in his work history.

What I see is another "L-Plate" appointment. Maybe he will be great at it, but let us not pretend that this is anything but a "Leap of Faith" appointment.

As a former Salesman I can tell you that you are neck deep in pitch documents and then contracts. The lawyers might draw them up, but you are negotiating them and putting it together. The numbers have to make sense in the individual case and also in the overall scheme of things.

 

[lewdogs]

Melbourne, and no other AFL team in the post billion dollar TV deals will get folded.
There won’t be another merger (reduction of teams)

What scares me is the pressure on the AFL to come up with a Tasmanian team. If that pressure is sustained and we hit rock bottom, how long until the decision is made to shift the Saints to Tasmania?
It’ll kill two birds with one stone. Shift a team that isn’t sustainable, give Tasmania the team they’ve been crying out for for decades.

We’d be shifted before Gold Coast, who are an even bigger rabble than us. Gold Coast is a market they’re determined to win over. Teams based in Melbourne have almost no affinity with the suburbs they’re named after anymore.

Just my 2cents.

The AFL and Victorian state government just gave us millions of dollars to move to Moorabbin which suggests we're not going anywhere.

 

[StFly]

Yeah what do you think the plan is?

Nice to see an inability to answer a question, then asking one because reasons?

It's very simple really, calling the review a crock, limited yes, but a crock, means that you are of the opinion that the club engaged in illegalities considering people got fired, because unfair dismissal laws.

What it appears to be, again from public information, because none of us know things, is;

Summers+Finnis+Lethlean lead football department review excluding X. It is a limited review considering there were exclusions in the department. This is Still fine without knowing terms.

Basset incomes to replace Summers moving forward, review terms can be reviewed considering potential change in terms of inital.

Basset+Finnis+Lethlean reopen reviewed review.

THIS IS ALL FINE.

Not desired, but it's still OK, people can breathe.

Now, you have an incoming president, this can also mean that incumbent board members can also change, and a change in this space can also mean anything previously amended, ratified and thought by the current incumbents can change.

You still with me or did I lose you at line 1 where you failed basic English to answer a question? Still here, good.

What this means is that everyone can still get the result they want.

You want a pony, you have a chance to get a pony.
You want a punch in the face, you have a chance to be punched in the face.
You want the status quo, you have a chance to have the same shit.
You want a chance you have a chance.

Now what I believe the current incumbents are doing, is keeping Richo for 1 season, changing underneath, reviewing next year and then changing the top should it fail since it's frankly easier to do and you only extend the misery by 12 months or less.

Now if you hate that decision and it turns out to be true, you have an AGM in 3 months with which to dispute that course of action, provided that you did not burn, cut, drown or emo your membership in the everything is horrible circular arguments occurring.

FTR, I give absolutely no shits if Richo stays or goes since he's gone next year barring a miracle and I'm patient. I've instead called out guys like Sexton and Cox and those above him as incompetent for the past 3-4 years, or in Sextons case the past 2.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Teflon]

No news Friday then?

 

[gringo2011]

The AFL and Victorian state government just gave us millions of dollars to move to Moorabbin which suggests we're not going anywhere.

It's the home of TAC squad Sandy Dragons, the SMJFL, women's footy and a community hub. I'm pretty sure if we left it wouldn't go unused.

 

[BrutThough]

You mean the same people that hired people without football experience to important football roles that they had no direct experience in before like Bains and Cox? The same ones that appointed our current Coach without a recent interview?

You have a lot more faith in them than I do. I just see the same process being rinsed and repeated. I am hoping for a different result this time.



This is how James described in his own words his former position:

As a Relationship Director, I am responsible for leading a sales team that manages existing clients and develops new business in the bank’s broader professional services markets – including architectural, engineering and consulting firms as well as our offering to the healthcare industry encompassing individual medical specialists, medical centres and private hospitals.

Maybe he is a nice bloke, many he is a great salesman etc. But the posts earlier to mine were suggesting that he was hired due to experience with contracts and the like. I do not see that in his work history.

What I see is another "L-Plate" appointment. Maybe he will be great at it, but let us not pretend that this is anything but a "Leap of Faith" appointment.

I dont recall Simon Lethlean, who hired James, being there when Bains and Cox were hired.
And Bains, who wasnt directly experienced in his role at the club, did a good job because his prior experience was still relevant in the role he played.

 

[jwikked]

The AFL and Victorian state government just gave us millions of dollars to move to Moorabbin which suggests we're not going anywhere.

Vic Government spent a billion dollars to not build a road. The previous Vic Government spent millions to not go to court (Mathew Guy)

Get rid of the Saints and you still have a facility that can be used by the public, which I can't help but feel was the intent in the end.

 

[lewdogs]

Vic Government spent a billion dollars to not build a road. The previous Vic Government spent millions to not go to court (Mathew Guy)

Get rid of the Saints and you still have a facility that can be used by the public, which I can't help but feel was the intent in the end.

Ok ok but I just don't think we'll be shipped off. Just don't see it happening. For one thing the supporters wouldn't stand for it. Tasmania is not happening, Gil has pretty much said that.

 

[Saint Watto]

Thanks VDS, confirms my thinking.
So why are people up in arms over his appointment? Not having a crack at anyone - just confused by the outrage of what seems to be a reasonable business decision.

Agree there Pardon me and also….I don't get all the angst.

And WOW WEE....to quote BT....the mob is riding hard and fast today.

 

[Sir Skid]

Now what I believe the current incumbents are doing, is keeping Richo for 1 season, changing underneath, reviewing next year and then changing the top should it fail since it's frankly easier to do and you only extend the misery by 12 months or less

Sounds a lot like our list rebuild with the Cherries on top FA's. Just sayin

 

[pebblesofsand]

You mean the same people that hired people without football experience to important football roles that they had no direct experience in before like Bains and Cox? The same ones that appointed our current Coach without a recent interview?

You have a lot more faith in them than I do. I just see the same process being rinsed and repeated. I am hoping for a different result this time.



This is how James described in his own words his former position:

As a Relationship Director, I am responsible for leading a sales team that manages existing clients and develops new business in the bank’s broader professional services markets – including architectural, engineering and consulting firms as well as our offering to the healthcare industry encompassing individual medical specialists, medical centres and private hospitals.

Maybe he is a nice bloke, many he is a great salesman etc. But the posts earlier to mine were suggesting that he was hired due to experience with contracts and the like. I do not see that in his work history.

What I see is another "L-Plate" appointment. Maybe he will be great at it, but let us not pretend that this is anything but a "Leap of Faith" appointment.

"Transferable skills"

Andrew Bassat has never been an AFL club President - so is he unfit for the task.

Scott Morrison has never been a PM, does that make him incapable - sorry not a good example!!!

 

[StCicatriz]

Nice to see an inability to answer a question, then asking one because reasons?

It's very simple really, calling the review a crock, limited yes, but a crock, means that you are of the opinion that the club engaged in illegalities considering people got fired, because unfair dismissal laws.

What it appears to be, again from public information, because none of us know things, is;

Summers+Finnis+Lethlean lead football department review excluding X. It is a limited review considering there were exclusions in the department. This is Still fine without knowing terms.

Basset incomes to replace Summers moving forward, review terms can be reviewed considering potential change in terms of inital.

Basset+Finnis+Lethlean reopen reviewed review.

THIS IS ALL FINE.

Not desired, but it's still OK, people can breathe.

Now, you have an incoming president, this can also mean that incumbent board members can also change, and a change in this space can also mean anything previously amended, ratified and thought by the current incumbents can change.

You still with me or did I lose you at line 1 where you failed basic English to answer a question? Still here, good.

What this means is that everyone can still get the result they want.

You want a pony, you have a chance to get a pony.
You want a punch in the face, you have a chance to be punched in the face.
You want the status quo, you have a chance to have the same shit.
You want a chance you have a chance.

Now what I believe the current incumbents are doing, is keeping Richo for 1 season, changing underneath, reviewing next year and then changing the top should it fail since it's frankly easier to do and you only extend the misery by 12 months or less.

Now if you hate that decision and it turns out to be true, you have an AGM in 3 months with which to dispute that course of action, provided that you did not burn, cut, drown or emo your membership in the everything is horrible circular arguments occurring.

FTR, I give absolutely no shits if Richo stays or goes since he's gone next year barring a miracle and I'm patient. I've instead called out guys like Sexton and Cox and those above him as incompetent for the past 3-4 years, or in Sextons case the past 2.

Thanks for playing.

Congrats for the personal naming calling. Disappointing. You can **** right off with that attitude.

 

[tomjoad]

I don't know that Gen whatevers know about Billy Bragg

No, too busy complaining about their money woes whilst sipping 25 dollar cocktails, eating out 3 meals a day, buying bees wax & rose water for their beards and vagalizing themselves with gold paper. Shine bright like a diamond.

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

I'm still worried that Lethlean is cutting the list to pieces with little knowledge of football and small sample size. I get he doesn't rate our list, it's pretty hard to rate on this season but FFS he could be about to set us back 5 years because he thinks he knows what he's doing. He was a lawyer and an AFL media operations manager. To me that's no Neil Balme.
From where we left ourselves with trading out picks from this draft, it's insanity to cut so hard.

The issue I have with all the delisting is that they all have one component that we really need in the side .
Have a guess - speed .
Now to delist so many with pace is not addressing our need to rtne last 3 years
Wright pace
Freeman potential pace
Meat ball pace
Gilbert -I know he is old but had the ability to break lines with pace
Irish guy pace to burn

 

[Therealsaint]

It's the home of TAC squad Sandy Dragons, the SMJFL, women's footy and a community hub. I'm pretty sure if we left it wouldn't go unused.

It must be a boring night,to even debate the possibility about folding or relocating is laughable,you guys need a hobby,how about stamp collecting

 

[BrutThough]