The Clayton Oliver Statistical Analysis Thread

[jakefooty23]

I'd still take Petracca ahead of him. Best kid on their list.

I agree with that one. Oliver will get more disposals, but I think petracca is a much more damaging player and his 20 touches are about as influential as olivers 30. Of course Oliver is better on the inside but I think he needs to add another string to his bow. Just my opinion though.

 

[jakefooty23]

Get back to me if he's still doing it in 13 games

will do

 

[Trav 20]

Clayton Oliver - A perfect example as to why other sports don't try to quantify how many times you touch the ball as an indication as to how good you are as a player.

ONE Contested Mark for the entire season. ONE Mark Inside 50 for the entire season. ZERO Goals for the entire season.

Gets alot of it, does F*ck All with it.

So why would opposition coaches give him votes in 5 of 6 games ?

You're a perfect example of someone who loves footy, but hasn't a frigging clue about the game.

 

[Trav 20]

He doesn't kick it enough, he really needs to add that to his game to move into the competition elite.

Yep. It's called a 19 year old player with less than 20 games still working on becoming the best player he can be.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

So why would opposition coaches give him votes in 5 of 6 games ?

You're a perfect example of someone who loves footy, but hasn't a frigging clue about the game.

Melbournes Midfield has very few standouts and works well as a unit (cite being rated the 18th best midfield group in the comp via champion data prior to the season), they have to give it to someone so they give it to the bloke who racks up the cheap ball and ends up with 35 disposals.

Really not that hard to see whats happening here... Just because you're an AFL coach doesn't mean you know what your doing (reference Nathan Buckley)

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

These arguments sound familiar. Seem to recall a lot of Dees supporters dismissing the same arguments when discussing Cripps vs Hogan.

Thread merge needed.

 

[Trav 20]

I agree with that one. Oliver will get more disposals, but I think petracca is a much more damaging player and his 20 touches are about as influential as olivers 30.

People with this view haven't seen enough of Oliver play, which is fine, why would you watch every minute of another club's games.

Given a choice more Melbourne supporters would take Oliver over Petracca if given that terrible scenario.

 

[Trav 20]

Really not that hard to see whats happening here... Just because you're an AFL coach doesn't mean you know what your doing (reference Nathan Buckley)

Give up footy, mate.

 

[Bazza97]

Melbournes Midfield has very few standouts and works well as a unit (cite being rated the 18th best midfield group in the comp via champion data prior to the season), they have to give it to someone so they give it to the bloke who racks up the cheap ball and ends up with 35 disposals.

Really not that hard to see whats happening here... Just because you're an AFL coach doesn't mean you know what your doing (reference Nathan Buckley)

I wouldn't be using Champion Data as a source for information. A very flawed system in ranking players and teams. When Josh Caddy is ranked elite by CD, you know that it's a joke.

 

[Omar Little]

Easily the best sauce head I've seen play the game since Matty Bate.

 

[Bluelegs]

Clayton Oliver - A perfect example as to why other sports don't try to quantify how many times you touch the ball as an indication as to how good you are as a player.

ONE Contested Mark for the entire season. ONE Mark Inside 50 for the entire season. ZERO Goals for the entire season.

Gets alot of it, does F*ck All with it.

Scott Pendlebury has 0 hitouts for the year, clearly not pulling his weight.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

Give up footy, mate.

The truth hurts, i get it. We went through the same thing with Jesse White. You think youve found a stud but he turns out to be poo.

Similar situation really...

 

[iluvparis]

Scott Pendlebury has 0 hitouts for the year, clearly not pulling his weight.

There's a reason he hasn't won a brownlow yet

 

[Roadto2018]

Oliver>>Petracca. All well and good to say he doesn't kick enough or doesn't hurt you but he is literally that good at winning the footy, he's made their midfield so much better because he just knows how to get the ball, uses it well in close as well which is invaluable, very much a Priddis/Cripps type that won't burst away and look amazing ala Dangerfield but is just an out and out gun, will have multiple top 5 brownlow finishes and while he may not be the match winner that bont is, he won't be far behind him.

Having said that this thread is pointless, everyone knows he's a gun.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

The stats:

6th in average disposals/game
=8th in average tackles/game
6th in average contested disposals/game.
2nd in average effective disposals/game.
7th in average clearances/game.

Currently equal 2nd in AFLCA Coaches Award vote.
Currently equal 1st in 3AW PotY vote.

In his second season. Having only played 19 games.

What we are seeing from Oliver is actually unprecedented. I looked up Cripps in 2015 for context. Oliver is averaging better than him in every stat...clearances are the closest for Cripps.

There's legitimately only one comparison at this point in his career that I can find for what he is doing. Diesel Williams. But even then, Diesel's year one average is better than Oliver's...but Oliver is bringing in better numbers in year 2.

He's damn good and there's a chance he will be better than Cripps if he keeps tracking the way he is, but using Cripps' 2015 as a comparison isn't entirely fair. His '1st year' was only 3 games with 2 as the sub and was interrupted by injury, and we aren't just talking about a hammy or something, we're talking broken leg. 2016 was effectively Cripps' 2nd season.

Here's a better comparison. Cripps' 1st 19 games* vs Oliver's 1st 19 games (* I have taken a slight liberty here and excluded Cripps 1st 3 games, so this is games 4-22)



I know this won't be acceptable to some people, but I think it's a fairer comparison. It's not meant as a knock on Oliver in any way, as I think he's amazing.

 

[My name geoff]

If I recall correctly Cripps started copping a hard tag in season 2 as he was literally winning us games off his own. Pendlebury had to be shifted to a negating role on Cripps to stop him taking the game away from Collingwood in a half of footy up there with the most dominant of any player in the comp.

 

[LeverPuller]

He's damn good and there's a chance he will be better than Cripps if he keeps tracking the way he is, but using Cripps' 2015 as a comparison isn't entirely fair. His '1st year' was only 3 games with 2 as the sub and was interrupted by injury, and we aren't just talking about a hammy or something, we're talking broken leg. 2016 was effectively Cripps' 2nd season.

Here's a better comparison. Cripps' 1st 19 games* vs Oliver's 1st 19 games (* I have taken a slight liberty here and excluded Cripps 1st 3 games, so this is games 4-22)

View attachment 365643

I know this won't be acceptable to some people, but I think it's a fairer comparison. It's not meant as a knock on Oliver in any way, as I think he's amazing.

Honestly the history makes it a bitch to compare. I think the best comparison if you wanted to do similar is Cripps 2016 v Oliver 2017. Allows for a full preseason for both players, gets them both into the thick of it. Will be very interesting to see how they stack up, particularly given I think Oliver is working out how to impact around the ground as well.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Honestly the history makes it a bitch to compare. I think the best comparison if you wanted to do similar is Cripps 2016 v Oliver 2017. Allows for a full preseason for both players, gets them both into the thick of it. Will be very interesting to see how they stack up, particularly given I think Oliver is working out how to impact around the ground as well.

Agreed, but I guess this gives a more even immediate comparison, but understand if some don't like it.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

He's damn good and there's a chance he will be better than Cripps if he keeps tracking the way he is, but using Cripps' 2015 as a comparison isn't entirely fair. His '1st year' was only 3 games with 2 as the sub and was interrupted by injury, and we aren't just talking about a hammy or something, we're talking broken leg. 2016 was effectively Cripps' 2nd season.

Here's a better comparison. Cripps' 1st 19 games* vs Oliver's 1st 19 games (* I have taken a slight liberty here and excluded Cripps 1st 3 games, so this is games 4-22)

View attachment 365643

I know this won't be acceptable to some people, but I think it's a fairer comparison. It's not meant as a knock on Oliver in any way, as I think he's amazing.

Great idea, make an unbiased comparison but cherry pick which games you take from the player that plays in your team

This thread is truly terrible

 

[LeverPuller]

If I recall correctly Cripps started copping a hard tag in season 2 as he was literally winning us games off his own. Pendlebury had to be shifted to a negating role on Cripps to stop him taking the game away from Collingwood in a half of footy up there with the most dominant of any player in the comp.

And this is the catch. I think Melbourne now is deeper in the middle than Carlton in 15-16. You had Gibbs and Murphy but Murphy was often injured and Gibbs wasn't always impacting. It does help when you have to worry about Lewis, Jones and Viney.

That said, I think it's almost impossible to tag someone inside the contest. Tagging will stop them getting clear and doing damage on the outside or that medium release disposal, not from picking up 25 on the bottom of packs.

 

[ManOfClay]

If I recall correctly Cripps started copping a hard tag in season 2 as he was literally winning us games off his own. Pendlebury had to be shifted to a negating role on Cripps to stop him taking the game away from Collingwood in a half of footy up there with the most dominant of any player in the comp.

This is the sort of rubbish that pollutes any discussion Cripps is raised in so Carlton supporters can feel relevant.

1. You won 4 games in 2015, cripps' second year. Like anyone was concerned, even with Cripps playing well. Any attention Cripps was getting was purely because who else was there to worry about?

2. You seriously think Buckley decided to use Pendlebury as a tagger? There are much better mids than Cripps going around and Collingwood would never ever use their best offensive player as a tagger. I'm not even sure Pendles would know what to do. I'm surprised they didn't get Alex Fasolo to tag him. More than likely Collingwood tried to engineer it so Cripps and Pendlebury were head to head, forcing cripps to do something outside of the stoppages.

It's nice you believe this but maybe keep it to the Carlton board

 

[Donakebab]

Great idea, make an unbiased comparison but cherry pick which games you take from the player that plays in your team

This thread is truly terrible

Can understand the reasoning behind leaving them out considering he was wearing the red or green sub vest.

 

[TooBlue14]

This is the sort of rubbish that pollutes any discussion Cripps is raised in so Carlton supporters can feel relevant.

1. You won 4 games in 2015, cripps' second year. Like anyone was concerned, even with Cripps playing well. Any attention Cripps was getting was purely because who else was there to worry about?

2. You seriously think Buckley decided to use Pendlebury as a tagger? There are much better mids than Cripps going around and Collingwood would never ever use their best offensive player as a tagger. I'm not even sure Pendles would know what to do. I'm surprised they didn't get Alex Fasolo to tag him. More than likely Collingwood tried to engineer it so Cripps and Pendlebury were head to head, forcing cripps to do something outside of the stoppages.

It's nice you believe this but maybe keep it to the Carlton board

Maybe you should watch the actual game it happened in before opening your mouth. This is not opinion. Like your comment but a fact. I'm pretty sure Buckley also mentioned it in his press conference or if may have been a comment later on in the media. Watch the game.

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

Yeah he's pretty good.

 

[SickQwon]

This is the sort of rubbish that pollutes any discussion Cripps is raised in so Carlton supporters can feel relevant.

1. You won 4 games in 2015, cripps' second year. Like anyone was concerned, even with Cripps playing well. Any attention Cripps was getting was purely because who else was there to worry about?

2. You seriously think Buckley decided to use Pendlebury as a tagger? There are much better mids than Cripps going around and Collingwood would never ever use their best offensive player as a tagger. I'm not even sure Pendles would know what to do. I'm surprised they didn't get Alex Fasolo to tag him. More than likely Collingwood tried to engineer it so Cripps and Pendlebury were head to head, forcing cripps to do something outside of the stoppages.

It's nice you believe this but maybe keep it to the Carlton board

The thing is though. Pendlebury was moved to stop Cripps' midfield dominance. This is objectively true.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. And I'm not sure you ever will lmao