Analysis The Coach – Simon 'Standard Practice' Goodwin: It's time to go (for real this time)

[Topkent]

So which one is it?

That our greatest side in 70 years is arguably not even better than a pies era that sacked a coach

 

[Bluelegs]

Not exactly though, if you only consider a GF win as success and everything else is a failure there's no real point discussing footy cause everything's black and white. They won a GF but for a beautiful kick by sheed, lost a prelim by a point and if they win against brisbane they've had a far better time than us since Goodys been in charge

An easier comparison to make would be the 01-07 Port side, 07-11 Collingwood side or the 15-18 West Coast side. All acheived more than what we have to date.

 

[Topkent]

Think it was Bluelegs who said they shut down the game as good as anyone I've seen. They take turns just flooding stoppages and never just boot it to space ala Viney or do anything dumb. But when the games open they seriously roll the dice on conceding and scoring. Reckon GWS were some composure moments away from blowing them away in the 3rd

 

[Topkent]

An easier comparison to make would be the 01-07 Port side, 07-11 Collingwood side or the 15-18 West Coast side. All acheived more than what we have to date.

At this point you can add Geelong 17-22, Sydney/WC 04-06. Only one we are probably better than is the dogs and they even made a second GF

 

[Bluelegs]

Think it was Bluelegs who said they shut down the game as good as anyone I've seen. They take turns just flooding stoppages and never just boot it to space ala Viney or do anything dumb. But when the games open they seriously roll the dice on conceding and scoring. Reckon GWS were some composure moments away from blowing them away in the 3rd

The way they switch from tempo to attacking footy is amazing. Shows how well drilled/coached they are. When we want to switch up our styles it takes about a month.

 

[Topkent]

The way they switch from tempo to attacking footy is amazing. Shows how well drilled/coached they are. When we want to switch up our styles it takes about a month.

Yeah I don't think Goody is a very good coach at all. I know alot of people don't understand this concept but one single flag doesn't vindicate you as a good coach.

Goody and Worsfold are 2 average coaches with flags meanwhile there are better coaches who have never won one

 

[Demon13304]

Not exactly though, if you only consider a GF win as success and everything else is a failure there's no real point discussing footy cause everything's black and white. They won a GF but for a beautiful kick by sheed, lost a prelim by a point and if they win against brisbane they've had a far better time than us since Goodys been in charge

Fair enough mate, you've clearly got different views on that. Personally I'll take a flag over losing close prelims and grandfinals. "There's no point discussing footy" just for that is bit of shit call though- I can enjoy footy and discuss however the **** i want
I mean I've talked to West Coast fans and even though they're shit now, they've still got the last laugh over Collingwood and they can watch the 2018GF and that Sheed goal over and over again

Ill actually agree if they win next week, that is a better era than us. But they haven't yet and I think Brissy are better fit now too

 

[Topkent]

Fair enough mate, you've clearly got different views on that. Personally I'll take a flag over losing close prelims and grandfinals. "There's no point discussing footy" just for that is bit of s**t call though- I can enjoy footy and discuss however the * i want
I mean I've talked to West Coast fans and even though they're s**t now, they've still got the last laugh over Collingwood and they can watch the 2018GF and that Sheed goal over and over again

That wasn't ment to be a personal dig at you, just my all around opinion that if results are the only thing that really matters then there's no point having conversations about it what has happened.

That's fine I love the flag too, but in reality that's a single day. Like in 2008 Geelong were clearly the best team in it, most cats fans say it was their best team. They blew a GF against a good hawthorn side. So yeah Hawks got the flag, but they weren't a better side than the cats, they were better on the day

 

[Bluelegs]

Yeah I don't think Goody is a very good coach at all. I know alot of people don't understand this concept but one single flag doesn't vindicate you as a good coach.

Goody and Worsfold are 2 average coaches with flags meanwhile there are better coaches who have never won one

Imo he's very similar to Neil Craig. Very good at getting his players to play a very specific style but completely inflexible to moves made against that style.

 

[Topkent]

Imo he's very similar to Neil Craig. Very good at getting his players to play a very specific style but completely inflexible to moves made against that style.

Think you can run parallels with Buckleys coaching. Got them to the top, then seems to be driving them back into the ground with an inability to change from a rigid style.

 

[Tulip]

Imo he's very similar to Neil Craig. Very good at getting his players to play a very specific style but completely inflexible to moves made against that style.

It would be disingenuous to suggest we have always played this way. Early Goodwin we were very attacking but also leaked like a sieve (Oscar and Frosty). It was only once May and Lever found their feet in 2020 that we returned to Roos-style defence. Goodwin has shown the ability to be flexible before, we need to hope he does so again next year.

 

[Bluelegs]

It would be disingenuous to suggest we have always played this way. Early Goodwin we were very attacking but also leaked like a sieve (Oscar and Frosty). It was only once May and Lever found their feet in 2020 that we returned to Roos-style defence. Goodwin has shown the ability to be flexible before, we need to hope he does so again next year.

That's not what I said though. I'm not talking about a specific game style for his entire tenure. More the specific style we decide to run with on game day. In 17-18 we still had massive issues with getting worked out and being unable to switch gears. We've never been flexible on match day.

 

[Young Redleg]

It would be disingenuous to suggest we have always played this way. Early Goodwin we were very attacking but also leaked like a sieve (Oscar and Frosty). It was only once May and Lever found their feet in 2020 that we returned to Roos-style defence. Goodwin has shown the ability to be flexible before, we need to hope he does so again next year.

He just needs to maintain it throughout the entire year though. After our win over the swans in Round 3 I was finally enjoying watching us play again. We were taking risks and moving the ball quickly. Then a couple of weeks later we reverted to the borderline unwatchable style of play.

 

[Bluelegs]

He just needs to maintain it throughout the entire year though. After our win over the swans in Round 3 I was finally enjoying watching us play again. We were taking risks and moving the ball quickly. Then a couple of weeks later we reverted to the borderline unwatchable style of play.

Imagine if we could switch styles on game day depending on the situation.

 

[Young Redleg]

Imagine if we could switch styles on game day depending on the situation.

Yep. 2021 aside, we've always struggled with having a Plan B on match day.

 

[danster168]

I find all of this talk strange.

We lost to the premiers (assuming pies win) by 1 goal despite playing like trash and not kicking straight and everything going against us. Gotta be doing something right!

 

[PerfectFooty]

If i see pats on the back for still losing crucial games 2 years running...

 

[Topkent]

Actually forgot the pies lost by a point to GWS in 2019 as well
So since 2018 they've made 2 GFs and lost 2 prelims by a point

We've won a GF an got embarrassed in a prelim in that same time. So undoubtedly they're era has been better than ours with a flag vindication and they did while having salary cap issues.

 

[mrmonkey]

Actually forgot the pies lost by a point to GWS in 2019 as well
So since 2018 they've made 2 GFs and lost 2 prelims by a point

We've won a GF an got embarrassed in a prelim in that same time. So undoubtedly they're era has been better than ours with a flag vindication and they did while having salary cap issues.

Only had one down year in 2021 and were very close in the 2018 grand final. There previous time was 06-13 obviously winning a premiership in 2010 and were in the 2011 gf at 3 quarter time. Came close against the cats in a prelim in 07. Made a prelim in 09 but were badly beaten. Go back even further made 2 gf in a row unfortunately came up against one of the greatest teams in modern period but were close in 02 as well. Last 20 years they haven't had too many 'bad' years 04, 05, 14, 15, 16, 17 they didn't make finals.

 

[Topkent]

Only had one down year in 2021 and were very close in the 2018 grand final. There previous time was 06-13 obviously winning a premiership in 2010 and were in the 2011 gf at 3 quarter time. Came close against the cats in a prelim in 07. Made a prelim in 09 but were badly beaten. Go back even further made 2 gf in a row unfortunately came up against one of the greatest teams in modern period but were close in 02 as well. Last 20 years they haven't had too many 'bad' years 04, 05, 14, 15, 16, 17 they didn't make finals.

Just puts into perspective all these guys on here talking about how amazing our players and this era is and in reality it really hasn't been that good

 

[Bluelegs]

Just puts into perspective all these guys on here talking about how amazing our players and this era is and in reality it really hasn't been that good

Honestly when you look at Collingwood's history they really should have at least 20 premierships. They have blown so many Grand Finals.

 

[Bluelegs]

It would kind of make more sense if it was just Melbourne people who overrated us but plenty of journos and commentators have bought into it as well. Maybe part of it is how we've been spoiled with dynasty sides over the past 15 years and people just expected that trend to continue, maybe part of it was how dominant we were in the 2021 finals series.

I don't want to take any shine off 2021 but even that year we weren't as dominant throughout the season as some of the other great sides. We only won the minor premiership with a goal after the siren kicked from Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

's worst spot, otherwise we finish third.

Dogs choked their top 4 spot giving us a weaker Brisbane side in the QF then the Cats had Gastro in the lead up to the prelim and it was never a contest. We had next to no injuries at all that year either. No doubt we were a very good side that year and deserved to win the flag but it was certainly a season where everything went right for us. When faced with actual adversity this group hasn't handled it well.

 

[mrmonkey]

Just puts into perspective all these guys on here talking about how amazing our players and this era is and in reality it really hasn't been that good

I don't want to go too negative, reaching top 4 three years in a row is pretty good, especially after the neeld/bailey years, but we've really wasted those years with double straight set exits. In comparison to culture we've still have that losing culture, what I mean is even with being cooked in 22 and bad luck with injuries this year teams with good culture find a way to make a preliminary final as a minimum. Clubs like Geelong, hawthorn, Collingwood, Sydney even West Coast (except currently) in the past 20 years barely spend much time down the bottom and find ways to win in finals. Also look at Hawthorn's rebuild, they already look like they're on the way up not too long after a three-peat. My fear is when this group comes to the end and we've pissed away good chances we'll be back to cellar dwellers for a very long period of time again.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Jesus Christ! It's like a wake in here.

Collingwood are a great club. The greatest in the sport. They get things right more often than not. Rarely down the bottom. They have high expectations. And their list is every bit as good as ours atm. I don't think we're over valuing our list or undervaluing theirs. Both are very solid squads tbh.

Since the heyday of the 60s, we've been a minnow. It's actually part of the attraction of supporting this club for some people. The underdog. The Northey and Daniher Eras were fun. Should have definitely snagged a flag under Northey. And the 94 team under Balme was arguably more talented than the current side but we should be compared more to the other minnow Vic sides like Saints, Dogs, Kangas who haven't set the world on fire either tbh or won plenty of flags with as good a list as ours currently.

With some smart moves this off-season we will be a chance again next couple of years. Yeah will be disappointing not winning multiple flags with a decent list, but f* I'd much rather the last few seasons to the majority of what our club has endured over the past 60. #demonspirit

 

[Lord Nev]

Looks like we're all decided then. We have a terrible list that has also underachieved, a useless premiership-winning coach, and losing finals is better than flags.

Solid BigFooty areas.