Autopsy "The Flu Game" - Bulldogs dismantle Freo

[Next Waiting]

Have been watching him live at our home games this year. He's not perfect but he has a few tricks. His kicking gets knocked alot on here but i think his howlers just stick out a bit more. His signature blind floater over the defender from about 70m out that someone leads about 30m in the pocket has happened too many times to be conicidence. He seems to understand and adhere to the structure both defensively/offensively. He was quite heavy into Clark for the Freo game (McCrae was too).

Not certain he makes it but as far as serviceable clubman go, I've seen worse. You can't stack every position with A grade talent.

Some other interesting things I noticed:
•Buku getting an absolute spray from Jamarra for not lowering his eyes going in 50.
•Bramble has been getting alot of close checking this year, didn't against Freo.
•The pack crumbing setup from our small forwards was really evident to see.

It's like a set play. Comes from a certain part of the ground to a certain part of the ground. It's predictable to team mates but not overly predictable to the opposition because it might only happen once a quarter although he might provide the option several times a quarter but another is chosen. I feel it has quite a high success rate in terms of resulting score when the option is exercised.

Part of VDM's claim, other than his speed, is in all likelihood his predictability to his team mates. He'll gallop to a spot, the same spot within a metre or two, regularly and quickly. And he'll play on straight away.

I wonder whether a lack of predictability to team mates isn't part of Garcia's problem. He's a bee in a bottle but hard to read for team mates. The flow on being that it may undermine the confidence in his team mates of what they do or where they go in relation to him.

 

[Sentinel]

I think Danger said he's number 1 and it's not (even) close.

General agreement amongst coaches, playing peers, commentatoes and fans that he's the best player in the competition with Daicos and Reid looming.

I reckon Bont would care less about the Brownlow than I do......and that's not at all.
AFLCA and AFLPA are noteworthy acknowledgements from those who know. He's got 3 of them and one of a select few with multiples.

It's all about flags and Norms from here on in....if it ever wasn't.

I think it's telling that you no longer see people asking "who's better?"/"who would you rather?" when comparing Bontempelli to the likes of Cripps, Petracca, Oliver, Neale etc because the answer is very clear. Not only is he the best player in the competition by a decent length, he has been for some time and has been incredibly consistent and durable across what is now a 10+ year career.

Much like Ablett jnr at his peak, it's like watching an AFL gun play VFL/suburban football (i.e. being clearly a level above everyone else out there) - only he's doing it in the elite competition against the (2nd) best in the game.

 

[ossie_21]

I think Danger said he's number 1 and it's not (even) close.

General agreement amongst coaches, playing peers, commentatoes and fans that he's the best player in the competition with Daicos and Reid looming.

I reckon Bont would care less about the Brownlow than I do......and that's not at all.
AFLCA and AFLPA are noteworthy acknowledgements from those who know. He's got 3 of them and one of a select few with multiples.

It's all about flags and Norms from here on in....if it ever wasn't.

1 - Reid is currently a whole lot of hype and he’s only shown things in patches. I’m sure he will get there, but he needs to put everything together first and be consistent before he can even be brought into a discussion like that.

2 - Bont would put a flag above anything individual, but it would be a crime if he finished his career on 1. We need to get him another, hopefully before GTA 6.

 

[JohnnySteel]

If English can keep pushing back defensively and hard forward as he did last week, taking marks and kicking goals then his poor ruckwork can be overlooked and he can be a real match winner for us.

He looked a tad bit more aggressive too. More of that and we look a real threat.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[stefoid]

I think after the way brisbane took us to the cleaners at the stoppages last week, words may have been spoken to to everyone, including timmy

 

[Next Waiting]

Further to VDM. In order to criticize or indeed endorse his selection an attempt has to be made to understand his role. If there is no understanding of his role I don't believe that criticism or endorsement is particularly valid.

So here's my attempt at understanding his role. Taken into account are concepts like the butterfly effect, predictability to team mates, capacity and commitment.

This is an evolving working theory based on observations and some rudimentary analysis with no particular depth of research to any data sets that may support or refute it. And of course, I welcome peer review.

I would suggest that VDM's role is equal parts offensive and defensive. What perhaps distinguishes his role is that it appears to be very specific offensively in terms of actions and area. I think that the defensive side of his role is perhaps a little less rigid than the offensive, depending on how well the opposition are doing in the meat grinder.

A clue might be found in his starting position at Centre Bounces. It's an observation that he will start at the top of the 50m arc, closest to the centre square. Can't say how often this happens because that would require sobriety and research. It looks a bit like this



If we then win or look like we're going to win the centre clearance it starts to transition to something like this


And looks something like this



At this point I suggest that part of his role is to take a defender out of the corridor and off to the wing at high speed to create space for Bont, Richards and Treloar to run into if they so choose to do so. We have generally attacked left (unsubstantiated claim) because Bont and Richards are dominant left footers and JUH, Naughts and/or Weightman/Darcy/Lobb will lead to their right (Bont and Richards' left) (unsubstantiated claim). As indicated by the arrows, the player in possession looks to have 4 options, not including bombing it long to the goal square.

If the ball has come out to right side of the clearance VDM is in play. And if he is chosen as the option it will play out as follows (unsubstantiated claim).


He'll mark the ball and play on quickly by foot kicking to a void in the right pocket that one of the talls is running into .... probably JUH (unsubstantiated claim). It's very predictable to team mates and requires a high enough execution and success rate to ensure that it's a credible threat and cannot be ignored by the opposition and has to be covered. How often VDM is chosen as the option in actuality may not be as important as the number of times he creates the option (repeat sprints) and consequently the space it creates for a charging midfielder to shoot from a higher percentage position.

 

[Mutt]

VDM's biggest problem and what differentiates him from someone like DFA is that Laith has hands of stone.

VDM is the furthest thing from a one grab, clean footballer. This constantly puts him under pressure when he gains the footy (or sometimes doesn't gain because he fumbled.) VDM is losing that split second that the average player has, and is losing 2 split seconds compared to players like Bont, Libba and Cody, who are clean. The impact is seen in his decision-making because he is often rushed or experiences perceived pressure resulting from his lack of clean possession.

He also has some elite attributes as has been mentioned in several posts above.

 

[CarnTheScray]

1 - Reid is currently a whole lot of hype and he’s only shown things in patches. I’m sure he will get there, but he needs to put everything together first and be consistent before he can even be brought into a discussion like that.

2 - Bont would put a flag above anything individual, but it would be a crime if he finished his career on 1. We need to get him another, hopefully before GTA 6.

We will get another L Neale Brownlow before GTA 6.

 

[Next Waiting]

VDM's biggest problem and what differentiates him from someone like DFA is that Laith has hands of stone.

VDM is the furthest thing from a one grab, clean footballer. This constantly puts him under pressure when he gains the footy (or sometimes doesn't gain because he fumbled.) VDM is losing that split second that the average player has, and is losing 2 split seconds compared to players like Bont, Libba and Cody, who are clean. The impact is seen in his decision-making because he is often rushed or experiences perceived pressure resulting from his lack of clean possession.

He also has some elite attributes as has been mentioned in several posts above.

It was noted by DW that the number of marks he has been taking recently has increased. They're almost exclusively uncontested. Where he's taking them would be interesting ... I have a theory.

Agree he's nowhere as clean as those you mention, however, I think (unsubstantiated) that a lot of those fumbles occur in the hurly burly scraps in the pockets. He had a couple in that goal that Bont cleaned up by feeding to West. However, VDM kept it alive and moving forward till eventually Bont got involved and settled it.

I think it's a little unfair to mention him in the same sentence as Bont and Libba when it comes to cleanliness. That's a standard he'll never meet.

 

[King Harold]

I think after the way brisbane took us to the cleaners at the stoppages last week, words may have been spoken to to everyone, including timmy

Didn’t help ,
I urge people to watch the replay.

We wonder why we don’t seem to win the big games or have any consistency.
Of course it’s not the only reason , but that ruck work Sat was abysmal.

 

[stefoid]

Didn’t help ,
I urge people to watch the replay.

We wonder why we don’t seem to win the big games or have any consistency.
Of course it’s not the only reason , but that ruck work Sat was abysmal.

well, it was an improvement. roughly equal rather than getting our arses handed to us

I still reckon the quality of clearance is hugely important, so breaking even is fine as long as you use it well out of the stoppage and make sure the opposition uses it poorly. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a 'quality clearance' stat.

but still, you dont want to absolutely smashed at clearances. Thats never going to end well.

 

[King Harold]

well, it was an improvement. roughly equal rather than getting our arses handed to us

I still reckon the quality of clearance is hugely important, so breaking even is fine as long as you use it well out of the stoppage and make sure the opposition uses it poorly. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a 'quality clearance' stat.

but still, you dont want to absolutely smashed at clearances. Thats never going to end well.

OK , must be me going senile .
I will bow to the majority on here, but if anyone can point me to this new found aggression, I will go back take a look and apologise to all for wasting your time.

 

[Next Waiting]

OK , must be me going senile .
I will bow to the majority on here, but if anyone can point me to this new found aggression, I will go back take a look and apologise to all for wasting your time.

Come now KH. You went senile a long time ago

The majority are probably with you. I'm kinda with you but last Saturday didn't appear to be as bad as the week before ... which wasn't good....but not the only thing that wasn't good.

Timmy is one of the final pieces of the puzzle. I'm hoping, not entirely confident, but hoping nonetheless, that there is a point (a Hawks game epiphany) where he just says "I'm not gonna take it anymore" twisted sister style.

If it lasts for 2 seasons, even one, it's probably enough to make the difference that will matter. I'm holding onto to Lobb in the meantime though.

 

[Mutt]

It was noted by DW that the number of marks he has been taking recently has increased. They're almost exclusively uncontested. Where he's taking them would be interesting ... I have a theory.

Agree he's nowhere as clean as those you mention, however, I think (unsubstantiated) that a lot of those fumbles occur in the hurly burly scraps in the pockets. He had a couple in that goal that Bont cleaned up by feeding to West. However, VDM kept it alive and moving forward till eventually Bont got involved and settled it.

I think it's a little unfair to mention him in the same sentence as Bont and Libba when it comes to cleanliness. That's a standard he'll never meet.

I don't think it's unfair to point out that there are three tiers of "cleanness" among AFL players. Bont and Libba are examples of the top tier. VDM is an example of the bottom tier.

I'm not being disrespectful or unfair to VDM - cleanness is a highly valued commodity in AFL players because it allows you to do the things that less clean players cant achieve.

I stand by my claim that the "hands of stone" are Laith's biggest weakness... but I can see what he brings to the team and that he is elite, or has very desirable qualities, in other areas (which Bont and Libba may not be as good as.)

 

[Next Waiting]

I don't think it's unfair to point out that there are three tiers of "cleanness" among AFL players. Bont and Libba are examples of the top tier. VDM is an example of the bottom tier.

I'm not being disrespectful or unfair to VDM - cleanness is a highly valued commodity in AFL players because it allows you to do the things that less clean players cant achieve.

I stand by my claim that the "hands of stone" are Laith's biggest weakness... but I can see what he brings to the team and that he is elite, or has very desirable quantities, in other areas (which Bont and Libba may not be as good as.)

Fair enough. I reckon VDM's hands are better than Minson's were though. There's stone .... and then there's granite.

And VDM is only just over the 50 game threshold. He might be on the "Iron Gloves" Marsh trajectory.

 

[Fossie 32]

OK , must be me going senile .
I will bow to the majority on here, but if anyone can point me to this new found aggression, I will go back take a look and apologise to all for wasting your time.

I wasn’t watching him closely but during the game did get the impression he was *a bit * better in the assertiveness department

 

[Mutt]

Fair enough. I reckon VDM's hands are better than Minson's were though. There's stone .... and then there's granite.

And VDM is only just over the 50 game threshold. He might be on the "Iron Gloves" Marsh trajectory.

Let's hope he improves as Marsh did - if so, he will be a weapon.

 

[SPower]

Matt Boyd's disposal by foot was another huge improvement too.

 

[weltschmerz]

I’m interested to see what Rypstra can develop into. If he has VDM’s gut running and positioning and is a bit tidier by hand or foot, he has a place in the side. I know mid season draftees are a crapshoot but it’ll be exciting to see if he makes it.

 

[bobs head soup]

I think Danger said he's number 1 and it's not (even) close.

General agreement amongst coaches, playing peers, commentatoes and fans that he's the best player in the competition with Daicos and Reid looming.

I reckon Bont would care less about the Brownlow than I do......and that's not at all.
AFLCA and AFLPA are noteworthy acknowledgements from those who know. He's got 3 of them and one of a select few with multiples.

It's all about flags and Norms from here on in....if it ever wasn't.

That's fair. I'd love to see Bont win a Brownlow, but won't bother me too much if he doesn't. Many of the acknowledged all time greats don't have one (EJ, Lethal, Carey etc).

What would really grind my gears is if he is overlooked again as the AA captain. That is an honour that needs to be on his CV.

 

[hutchy31]

That's fair. I'd love to see Bont win a Brownlow, but won't bother me too much if he doesn't. Many of the acknowledged all time greats don't have one (EJ, Lethal, Carey etc).

What would really grind my gears is if he is overlooked again as the AA captain. That is an honour that needs to be on his CV.

Barring injury, he'll be AA captain this year. He should have been last year, and would have been if we'd made finals instead of GWS.

I know there's some media idiots on that panel, but even they can't screw this one up (can they?)

 

[Next Waiting]

That's fair. I'd love to see Bont win a Brownlow, but won't bother me too much if he doesn't. Many of the acknowledged all time greats don't have one (EJ, Lethal, Carey etc).

What would really grind my gears is if he is overlooked again as the AA captain. That is an honour that needs to be on his CV.

I agree. Not that AA does much for me either. But still. And when he does rightfully ascend to the captaincy, for Dog's sake, let's not make it awks and ruin the photo with the orange thug as VC.

 

[dogwatch]

I don't think it's unfair to point out that there are three tiers of "cleanness" among AFL players. Bont and Libba are examples of the top tier. VDM is an example of the bottom tier.

I'm not being disrespectful or unfair to VDM - cleanness is a highly valued commodity in AFL players because it allows you to do the things that less clean players cant achieve.

I stand by my claim that the "hands of stone" are Laith's biggest weakness... but I can see what he brings to the team and that he is elite, or has very desirable quantities, in other areas (which Bont and Libba may not be as good as.)

This deserves an instant like (regardless of whatever point you are making) for using the term "cleanness".

"Cleanliness" relates to personal hygiene. While I'm not willing to go and investigate I wouldn't expect VDM's cleanliness to be as on the nose as his footballing cleanness.

And please, NOBODY should refer to "cleanliness in ball handling". Ever.

 

[Next Waiting]

This deserves an instant like (regardless of whatever point you are making) for using the term "cleanness".

"Cleanliness" relates to personal hygiene. While I'm not willing to go and investigate I wouldn't expect VDM's cleanliness to be as on the nose as his footballing cleanness.

And please, NOBODY should refer to "cleanliness in ball handling". Ever.

Cleanness is next to Dogliness.

Ball handling skills generally will always be intensely scrotscrutinised

 

[Sentinel]

That's fair. I'd love to see Bont win a Brownlow, but won't bother me too much if he doesn't. Many of the acknowledged all time greats don't have one (EJ, Lethal, Carey etc).

What would really grind my gears is if he is overlooked again as the AA captain. That is an honour that needs to be on his CV.

Another thing on his CV that's not spoken about, to add to his 5xAAs, is the fact he remains the only player to be selected in 5 '22under22' teams, including 3 years as captain. 2022 is the only year of his career where he hasn't been selected in either that side or the AA side (and both in our premiership year). Remarkably consistent.