Society/Culture The Gender Pay Gap

[faible]

i just assumed

Always dangerous when trying to give legal advice.

 

[Fadge]

Always dangerous when trying to give legal advice.

Or accusing someone else of being a criminal.

 

[Scotland]

Interested in your view here.

How would it be better represented?

For me, I think it would be better represented by including productive worked hours into the equation. I acknowledge this is difficult to do, but I suspect if men on average worked 10% more productive hours than women, and the wage gap as it is currently calculated at 14%, the real wage gap is 4%. (Then different vocations, etc. can be considered)

I actually suspect the average variance in productive hours between men and women would be greater than 10%, and indeed greater than the 14% wage gap as it is currently calculated.

But of course that doesn't suit the narrative.

I don't think as an overall statistic it adds much value. By segment, industry, age group etc. sure if you want to look at differences go for it, but the blanket "men get paid $2 more an hour for the same work" etc. stuff is nuffiness.

It also gets a bit tiring when everything is framed from a position of 'power structures' and 'patriarchy' and women basically being delicate little flower petals. I got my first part time job 22 years ago and have been working with women since and they certainly make their own decisions.

 

[killtaker1993]

I have a PhD and make just under $225,000 a year, and a female colleague with the same qualifications makes exactly the same salary as I do

 

[Fadge]

I have a PhD and make just under $225,000 a year, and a female colleague with the same qualifications makes exactly the same salary as I do

That can't possibly be right.

The Gender Pay Gap says so....

 

[Gethelred]

That can't possibly be right.

The Gender Pay Gap says so....

The logic in that post is akin to thinking a cold day demonstrates global warming doesn't exist.

 

[Fadge]

The logic in that post is akin to thinking a cold day demonstrates global warming doesn't exist.

No, the logic in that post demonstrates there is no Gender Wage Gap when comparing like for like.

There's been a lot of talk about what's legal and what's not in this thread, and to pay a woman less than a man simply because they are a woman is indeed illegal.

 

[Gethelred]

No, the logic in that post demonstrates there is no Gender Wage Gap when comparing like for like.

Saying that myself and a single other person who is female earn the same thing therefore no wage gap is facile analysis.

You're not this stupid.

There's been a lot of talk about what's legal and what's not in this thread, and to pay a woman less than a man simply because they are a woman is indeed illegal.

Yes, structural sexisim is illegal. That does not mean the wage gap doesn't exist.

It's interesting to note how may different arguments you can hold at once. How can the wage gap simultaneously not exist yet be explainable due to differing levels of productivity between genders, Fadge?

 

[Fadge]

It's interesting to note how may different arguments you can hold at once. How can the wage gap simultaneously not exist yet be explainable due to differing levels of productivity between genders, Fadge?

Because there is no Wage Gap due to Gender.

There is a wage gap due to productivity. If a female works longer and harder than a male in the same role/industry, any wage gap will likely be in the female's favour.

 

[Gethelred]

Because there is no Wage Gap due to Gender.

There is a wage gap due to productivity. If a female works longer and harder than a male in the same role/industry, any wage gap will likely be in the female's favour.

You're saying contradictory things.

• there is no gender wage gap.
• the gender wage gap can be explained by differing levels of productivity.

You cannot hold two contradictory ideas to be true simultaneously. Pick an argument, instead of trying to both have your cake and eat it.

 

[Fadge]

You're saying contradictory things.

• there is no gender wage gap.
• the gender wage gap can be explained by differing levels of productivity.

You cannot hold two contradictory ideas to be true simultaneously. Pick an argument, instead of trying to both have your cake and eat it.

They are not contradictory.

There is a Productivity Wage Gap, and reasonably so. If males (on average) work more productive hours than females (on average), males (on average) will earn more money than females (on average).

It is very simple. And logical.

 

[Gethelred]

They are not contradictory.

There is a Productivity Wage Gap, and reasonably so. If males (on average) work more productive hours than females (on average), males (on average) will earn more money than females (on average).

It is very simple. And logical.

That is an explanation for the wage gap. You cannot hold that the wage gap can be explained whilst simultaneously holding one does not exist.

Unless we can reach agreement here, we're at an impasse.

 

[MrKK]

Saying that myself and a single other person who is female earn the same thing therefore no wage gap is facile analysis.

You're not this stupid.

Yes, structural sexisim is illegal. That does not mean the wage gap doesn't exist.

It's interesting to note how may different arguments you can hold at once. How can the wage gap simultaneously not exist yet be explainable due to differing levels of productivity between genders, Fadge?

Facile analysis would be any article about WA having the biggest gender pay gap without any attempt to understand why. Hint: Range of high-paying jobs is different in WA to the rest of the country due to remote mining work that far fewer women than men want to do.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Facile analysis would be any article about WA having the biggest gender pay gap without any attempt to understand why. Hint: Range of high-paying jobs is different in WA to the rest of the country due to remote mining work that far fewer women than men want to do.

Have you worked on a mine site before?

 

[Scotland]

Saying that myself and a single other person who is female earn the same thing therefore no wage gap is facile analysis.

Saying that women get paid less than men for the same work is a facile statement.

 

[Gethelred]

Saying that women get paid less than men for the same work is a facile statement.

Dude, if all you're going to to do is drive by and post something that you think is pithy but doesn't actually address the post you quote, I'm going to have to treat you as a troll.

 

[Gethelred]

Facile analysis would be any article about WA having the biggest gender pay gap without any attempt to understand why. Hint: Range of high-paying jobs is different in WA to the rest of the country due to remote mining work that far fewer women than men want to do.

I didn't posit anything in relation to the article, and I certainly haven't mentioned anything about Western Australia.

Did you follow the conversation, instead of picking a phrase you'd thought you'd try out?

 

[Scotland]

Dude, if all you're going to to do is drive by and post something that you think is pithy but doesn't actually address the post you quote, I'm going to have to treat you as a troll.

Do you what you want, couldn't give a shit.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/the-message-is-clear-women-are-not-part-of-australias-fair-go/news-story/c8dafc70fdc59843ac940f60052c6c77

You got upset about the above article being called misinformation.

"Equal Pay Day marks the 60 additional days from the end of the financial year that women must work to earn the same as men earnt that year."

Yeah, it's a real good faith discussion.

 

[Gethelred]

Do you what you want, couldn't give a s**t.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/the-message-is-clear-women-are-not-part-of-australias-fair-go/news-story/c8dafc70fdc59843ac940f60052c6c77

You got upset about the above article being called misinformation.

"Equal Pay Day marks the 60 additional days from the end of the financial year that women must work to earn the same as men earnt that year."

Yeah, it's a real good faith discussion.

Several things.

One: I've not mentioned that article, at all.
Two: seeing as you thought to ask, I'm feeling pretty good, having a relatively pleasant evening. I'm certainly not upset.
Three: you thought you had a gotcha and a drive-by, something you could use. It's kind of adorable, Scotland, how clever you thought you were being.

But that's the problem with driving by; if you'd read the discussion, you'd know that I've not said anything about that article. I replied to a post unrelated to that article and rejected its reasoning.

Now we come back to your problem. See, I read this forum a bit, and you like popping into threads to throw out what must sound like killer nonsequiturs in your head. If you cop any biteback, you don't respond; if it's a thread like this where you think you'll get support, you stick round and play a little longer. It's rather trolly, Scotland, and I don't have a high tolerance for trolls; at least, I've a low tolerance for the unfunny ones.

So consider this your first and last warning. If I see you doing this again - popping into a thread to take a potshot then running for the hills - you're not going to like the repercussions.

 

[Scotland]

Facile analysis would be any article about WA having the biggest gender pay gap without any attempt to understand why. Hint: Range of high-paying jobs is different in WA to the rest of the country due to remote mining work that far fewer women than men want to do.

If you look at the bar graph in the article it shows how useless the averages really are.

WA has the biggest gap between men and women, but also the highest pay for men. The average for women in WA is still higher than for most stages and higher than the average for anyone in Tasmania. It's not like every man gets $1/hr and women get 80c in WA and 90c in the ACT or similar.

I'm not at all surprised that wages in NSW are comparably high and the gap between men and women is lower than the national average. Strong services sector with a lot of high paying white collar roles. Very different to SA or Tasmania which are smaller economies and to WA/Qld which have bigger mining and agriculture sectors.

 

[Hoops]

I have a PhD and make just under $225,000 a year, and a female colleague with the same qualifications makes exactly the same salary as I do

I hope there is no pay secrecy clauses in your employment contract

 

[Chump Change]

I'm not going to read the whole thread but what I have to say is somewhat controversial.

I'm sure the usual factors have been covered:

• It's illegal to pay women less than men for the same job
• Men work more hours
• Men work higher paying jobs (STEM based rather than Social Science based)
• Men work more dangerous jobs
• Women often leave the work force to start a family at a point where men the same age are hitting peak earning phase
• Also, women starting families mean a smaller pool of women for the high end jobs.

I'm sure that's nothing new. Every man knows it, very few women accept it. Even when this is explained to them they just seem to revert to "but women on average earn 15% less than men and it needs to be equal". What I'd say to women is; how about less mickey mouse subjects like Families and Communities and more real subjects like Economics.

So here's the controversial bit that probably hasn't been mentioned here;

There's a pyramid. All men are ranked on that pyramid according to desirability. Famous guys, rich guys, sports stars etc are near the top. And then it trickles down, pleb dudes at the bottom. All women (yes, all of them) are trying to get the highest man on that pyramid possible. Women will try to deny this, but it is often known by the saying "women marry across and up", and if that doesn't convince women, it's known as Natural Selection as per Darwin's Theory of Evolution. Seriously ladies, it's real.

So we have a pyramid of dudes and all the ladies are trying to get the highest possible dude (natural selection, right). Tiger Woods had to put chilli sauce in his condoms because women going through his bins to gets his semen to insert is a common thing (aka unnatural selection or chilli enchilada). The result of this is the 80/20 rule. 80% of women are banging 20% of men. There's a flow on effect of this; for men to get sex or to be able to procreate (80% of women have children but only 40% of men) they have to be as high up that ladder as possible.

So what does this have to do with the gender pay gap?

Biologically (i.e. Darwin's Theory of Evolution) men have to be competent. We have to be good at what we do to get sex. Women don't. How do we know if this is true? Go into any bar on any given night. Every single woman who wants sex can get it if they ask. Guys? 10% if lucky.

So we have one gender who is biologically built to be competent and achieve. This means not making excuses. This means being able to accept reality (most men understand what I wrote above either consciously or subconsciously). Women don't. This is why we see women making excuses, not being accountable for their actions, and buying into the victim mentality. Seriously, women believe men sit around the work place and conspire against women.

The gender pay gap is a myth. It's there all right, but there are valid reasons. The hierarchy of pay is based on competence (closely linked to that pyramid I talked about above). If women want to earn the same they need to understand this, i.e. it's NOT about gender, it's about competence.

So one gender is biologically set to be competent. I'm surprised the pay gap isn't bigger. I think women need a big cup of perspective. I have zero time for any female who even mentions the gender pay gap and even less time for simp men who buy into it.

 

[Chump Change]

That is an explanation for the wage gap. You cannot hold that the wage gap can be explained whilst simultaneously holding one does not exist.

Unless we can reach agreement here, we're at an impasse.

The "gender pay gap" can mean two things

1. women are paid less than men for the same job
2. Women on average are paid less than men across the board

When people say the "gender pay gap" doesn't exist, they are talking about the first one. This is assumed knowledge and shouldn't have to be explicitly pointed out.

The first one doesn't exist. The second one can be reduced (but never the same) by women choosing careers that pay more. Paying women more for childcare or social counselling is not a realistic solution unless you like communism.

 

[Gethelred]

The "gender pay gap" can mean two things

1. women are paid less than men for the same job
2. Women on average are paid less than men across the board

When people say the "gender pay gap" doesn't exist, they are talking about the first one. This is assumed knowledge and shouldn't have to be explicitly pointed out.

The first one doesn't exist. The second one can be reduced (but never the same) by women choosing careers that pay more. Paying women more for childcare or social counselling is not a realistic solution unless you like communism.

While this is a valid explanation for why both arguments can exist at once, there is enough misinterpretation on this forum without me putting words into someone else's posts that aren't there. Saying 'The Gender Pay Gap doesn't exist' means something a mite more nuanced is entirely possible, but the posts you're defending didn't add the nuance.

 

[Chump Change]

While this is a valid explanation for why both arguments can exist at once, there is enough misinterpretation on this forum without me putting words into someone else's posts that aren't there. Saying 'The Gender Pay Gap doesn't exist' means something a mite more nuanced is entirely possible, but the posts you're defending didn't add the nuance.

The nuance shouldn't have to be specifically clarified in every post. You know very well what those posters mean.