The Good Things About Dean Laidleys' as Coach of the NMFC.

[Zondor]

seemed to have worked for gibbo,ever since laidley said his form was PUTRID,hes played well,b&f votes for sure

There was no need to air it in public IMO. But it has worked.

 

[spurs]

Why? Is it any better that we play the most unattractive brand of football in the comp just behind Richmond? If you honestly believe there are thousands of supporters turning up each week to support us who wouldn't have turned up if we had bottomed out, then you're on crack. Our unattractive style of football has done a lot more harm to our crowd numbers than if we had bottomed IMO. Anyway, looks like we'll be bottomming out this year. So what was the point?

The point is that we could have gone to the GC a few years ago and sitting on the bottom of the ladder...eg.Fitzroy wouldnt have looked very good.The administration was shite then and Laids had no choice but to play to win with hardened AFL players(even if they were crap)than wait and develop players.If you think more people would have turned up to the game if we were getting smashed then you are on crack.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Selection of youth has been somewhat forced. Good to see young faces deserving a shot in the seniors. However Laidleys inherent playing of players out of form continues. Hales, Thomas' and Powers should have all been dropped and stayed dropped over the year but haven't. My answer is No.

Hale is frustrating... and probably should be dropped but for who??? Smith??? not sure he is up to it either???

isn't Thomas one of the young kids that we want to form the base of our next tilt with??? so he is showing the kid some confidence... and I believe Thomas has improved over the last four weeks... well at least he has stopped begging for frees...

Power is okay at what he does... hopefully he gets better at it... very similair to Rawlings and will take Rawlings' spot in a year or two... he is only 25... he was traded for as a 23 year old... I would not call him an old hack...

No trades last year and an aim to select quality midfielders that can kick. So Yes.

so he is heading in the right direction... good

Why this couldn't have been the case in the first 6 years baffles me. Yeah lets pick up Kasey Green. Yeah lets pick up Lance Picione. Yeah lets pick up Daniel McConnell. ****ing Stupidity.

not the question I asked... those players were before JB and Euge... and it was 5 years...

The Game Plan is all over the shop. We have gone backwards from last season. Our Kick Outs are a Mess. Our Zones are a Mess. I Say there has been a change. So Yes.

and he has lost 1000 games experience from last year... our speed (Harvey Wells and Campbell) has been injured for the majority of the year... so even the most optimistic would expect it to go backwards... He is working out what works with this group of players... and I liked what I saw last week in the first quarter... probably our best quarter for some time now... and that was done with the kids leading the way... we are working in spits and spurts but that seems to happen with a big influx of youth...

maybe he would have been better trading our picks for some ready made hacks that kept us winning???

Cheers Mate... it all comes down to if you believe he was allowed to coach the way he wanted under the previous administration... I don't therefore I excuse the failings of that time... you do so you don't excuse them... have a good day...

 

[The Zebra]

This:

I'll say it again. People are different and handle situations differently. Coaches always talk about how they can spray player X but must handle player Y with kit gloves. I'm not against giving someone a spray but firstly it must be done behind closed doors. Not so the media get a wind of it and it becomes general knowledge. That was mistake number 1. Mistake number 2 is that Harris obviously is the wrong person you give such a spray to because he has gone backwards since that moment. Surely you understand these differences the all knowing The Zebras?

Followed by this:

No doubt he has worked harder. No doubt he is busting his gut. But look at the net result. It hasn't worked. Yeah Harris is to blame for his own actions but the way Laidley blasted him has not helped him. I just think that he hasn't been the same since that blast. Has he been the same?

So, Harris is the wrong person to spray, but there is no doubt he worked harder after it?

If he worked harder, if he busted a gut, then the spray worked!

The fact that it is still not working points more to either: Harris cannot bust a gut at the required level for AFL football or the game is passing him by and he doesn't ave the capabilities to address it.

Neither has been caused by Laidley spraying him. In fact, it seems the spray and the possible realisation after trade week that his current skill set and output were no longer that highly valued outside the club, gave him the impetus to actually do everything he address a declining career.

If you think he still has all the tools to dominate, but is still being held back by flashbacks to that spray, then you are absolutely kidding yourself.

 

[Zondor]

If you think he still has all the tools to dominate, but is still being held back by flashbacks to that spray, then you are absolutely kidding yourself.

I might be mate. When you put it that way it does seem somewhat idiotic.

But I maintain that the spray served him no good. Yeah you're right, it made him realise that he had to work harder but that hasn't work. Maybe because as you say the game has passed him by.

Giving someone a spray like that in front of your mates can scar some. It's not in my character to be scarred by that sort of shit but some people take that rot to heart. I have no doubt that Harris did just that. It wasn't the right way to handle the situation by Dean Laidleys. And regardless of what ever theroy you may hold, Harris hasn't been the same player since.

Respect Zebs.

Anyways why don't yah list a couple of Good Points in Laidleys Coaching. I know that you believe it is time for him to go but you do say shit as you think it and I have no doubt that you believe that Laidleys has some good points about his coaching. So here is your chance to enlighten Zondors the Pig Headed.

 

[Urmoe]

Hey Zondor... I need your wisdom on this one mate... no avoidance... yes or no...

Laidley's philosophy to selection trading and game plan since JB and Euge arrived.... have you seen a change???

Include Nifty Nev leaving in that one from a trading/drafting viewpoint.

 

[Rooboy 96]

How on earth can a bloke be so good at pulling a Pickett at 67 or whatever it was... and the continually get top 10 picks wrong...

 

[Zondor]

Respect Zebs.

Anyways why don't yah list a couple of Good Points in Laidleys Coaching. I know that you believe it is time for him to go but you do say shit as you think it and I have no doubt that you believe that Laidleys has some good points about his coaching. So here is your chance to enlighten Zondors the Pig Headed.

Yeah thanks for that mate. Thought as much.

 

[PowerIStough]

Best gameday coach in the competition, only shame he can't do it on the big stage eg finals.

 

[Zondor]

Best gameday coach in the competition, only shame he can't do it on the big stage eg finals.

Yeah shame he "can't do it" for over 50% of the games we play in.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Yeah shame he "can't do it" for over 50% of the games we play in.

Shame our players are inconsistent and only play well every second week.

Question for you Zondor. At what age do you roughly think that a players development from a coaching perspective comes to a minimum and the player is ultimately responsible for how far they take their career?

 

[Zondor]

Shame our players are inconsistent and only play well every second week.

Question for you Zondor. At what age do you roughly think that a players development from a coaching perspective comes to a minimum and the player is ultimately responsible for how far they take their career?

Simmo says he has learnt more from Laidleys then any other coach, Dangles included. Therefore he has continued to develop as a player late into his career. Kudos on Laidleys. Pity he has struggled with many others on the playing list.

To be fair it aint a one way street. A coach can only influence or develop a player to a point. Problem is Laidleys has wasted time on a number of players including my good mate Leigh Brown, Shannon Watts, Sam Powers, Kasey Greens, David Hales, Daniel McConnells, Blake Grimas, Callum Urches so on and so forth. If yah can't learn them then move them on. Especially in Brown and Watts' case he kept on beating a dead horse. And dont give me the we had no body else rubbish cause they werent giving us much anyways so moving them on would not have been the end of the world.

But to correctly answer your question, there is no age limit as to when a coaches ability to develop a player ceases. They are all different. Another example is Leigh Harding. Has played I say the best football in his career in his last 2 seasons. For that Laidleys should get some of the praise.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Simmo says he has learnt more from Laidleys then any other coach, Dangles included. Therefore he has continued to develop as a player late into his career. Kudos on Laidleys. Pity he has struggled with many others on the playing list.

To be fair it aint a one way street. A coach can only influence or develop a player to a point. Problem is Laidleys has wasted time on a number of players including my good mate Leigh Brown, Shannon Watts, Sam Powers, Kasey Greens, David Hales, Daniel McConnells, Blake Grimas, Callum Urches so on and so forth. If yah can't learn them then move them on. Especially in Brown and Watts' case he kept on beating a dead horse. And dont give me the we had no body else rubbish cause they werent giving us much anyways so moving them on would not have been the end of the world.

But to correctly answer your question, there is no age limit as to when a coaches ability to develop a player ceases. They are all different. Another example is Leigh Harding. Has played I say the best football in his career in his last 2 seasons. For that Laidleys should get some of the praise.

I didn't ask that though. I asked when does the player become master of his own destiny with minimal amount of development. I never said the development would stop all together.

 

[Zondor]

I didn't ask that though. I asked when does the player become master of his own destiny with minimal amount of development. I never said the development would stop all together.

I'll give yah minimal. What rubbish are you trying to get at? That after the Age of say 23 to 24 Dean Laidleys can shut up shop and say over to you Sam Powers, I'm done cause now you're mature enough to develop mainly off your own back? A coach can have an influence over a player at any stage of his career. And if that player aint good enough it is up to the coach to move him on.

 

[Wednesday]

Shame our players are inconsistent and only play well every second week.

Question for you Zondor. At what age do you roughly think that a players development from a coaching perspective comes to a minimum and the player is ultimately responsible for how far they take their career?

Yet those players never seem to get dropped.

One of Laidleys biggest faults is he has his untouchables and regardless of form they never get dropped. We've seen it time and time again. At the moment its Thomas. He doesn't deserve a game on his current form yet continually gets picked. In the past its been Brown Watt Power etc.

 

[DarwinRoo]

I'll give yah minimal. What rubbish are you trying to get at? That after the Age of say 23 to 24 Dean Laidleys can shut up shop and say over to you Sam Powers, I'm done cause now you're mature enough to develop mainly off your own back? A coach can have an influence over a player at any stage of his career. And if that player aint good enough it is up to the coach to move him on.

Why do you keep avoiding the question?

 

[DarwinRoo]

Yet those players never seem to get dropped.

One of Laidleys biggest faults is he has his untouchables and regardless of form they never get dropped. We've seen it time and time again. At the moment its Thomas. He doesn't deserve a game on his current form yet continually gets picked. In the past its been Brown Watt Power etc.

Like Harris and Jones for much of 2008?

 

[The Zebra]

Simmo says he has learnt more from Laidleys then any other coach, Dangles included. Therefore he has continued to develop as a player late into his career. Kudos on Laidleys. Pity he has struggled with many others on the playing list.

To be fair it aint a one way street. A coach can only influence or develop a player to a point. Problem is Laidleys has wasted time on a number of players including my good mate Leigh Brown, Shannon Watts, Sam Powers, Kasey Greens, David Hales, Daniel McConnells, Blake Grimas, Callum Urches so on and so forth. If yah can't learn them then move them on. Especially in Brown and Watts' case he kept on beating a dead horse. And dont give me the we had no body else rubbish cause they werent giving us much anyways so moving them on would not have been the end of the world.

But to correctly answer your question, there is no age limit as to when a coaches ability to develop a player ceases. They are all different. Another example is Leigh Harding. Has played I say the best football in his career in his last 2 seasons. For that Laidleys should get some of the praise.

Interesting conversation between Leigh Matthews and Simmo on the radio the other night. They were talking about the number of young players coming into senior football very quickly these days. Simmo said he puts that mainly down to the increase in use of development coaches. Matthews agreed.

Only difference for North though, Simmo said we only really got any development coaches after the 2006 season - a few years after pretty much every other club.

Do you reckon our player development has been better since 2006 - Laidleys last two seasons?

 

[Zondor]

Why do you keep avoiding the question?

Do I or are you simply too stupid to understand my answer?

There is not, I repeat, is not a magical age where a player suddenly can not be influenced or developed by the coach. Also a coach's influence in a player's development doesn't necessary diminish with time as a player gets older. Leigh Harding is a perfect example of a player who has developed a hell of a lot over the last 2 years of his career.

 

[Zondor]

Do you reckon our player development has been better since 2006 - Laidleys last two seasons?

Interesting question. I think it won’t be for another year or two that we will truly know the answer to this question.

Look at your buddy Wayne Buddy Hales. Has he developed? Last year it seemed like you were on the money and it appeared he had finally blossomed into a reasonable AFL footballer. But this year he has gone backwards. Is it too early to say he is a failure? I say it is too early to make that call.

Keeping that in mind it is also too early to say that the improvement in some of our youngsters has been a success.

Out of necessity we have played a number of kids and it has been exciting to watch. One would think, and that one being me, that it will do their development a world of good. But it is still early doors. Yet Warren has impressed, so has Ross at times, and Goldy is slowly getting there fingers crossed.

I look at some guys from 2006 to now that should be hitting their straps like Spud, Thomas, Hales, Lower, Riggio and it is fair to say they haven’t reached maximum potential. Even Petrie isn't at a standard that I think he is capable off.

But then I look at the likes of Swallow, McMahon, Gibson and Hamish and they seem to be heading in the right direction.

Like I said Zebs it is a hard question cause it is too early to call. Some players are developing and others aren't at the minute.

What do you reckon mate?

 

[Zondor]

Now guys, this thread aint a ask Big Zondor's a question thread.

It is a tell me the Good Things about Dean Laidleys' as Coach Thread.

Zebs give us some of Dean Laidleys Good Points of being a coach.

And snrubs, where in the hell are yah mate?

 

[DarwinRoo]

Do I or are you simply too stupid to understand my answer?

There is not, I repeat, is not a magical age where a player suddenly can not be influenced or developed by the coach. Also a coach's influence in a player's development doesn't necessary diminish with time as a player gets older. Leigh Harding is a perfect example of a player who has developed a hell of a lot over the last 2 years of his career.

I understand your answer but it doesn't answer the question at all.

I have never said that a coach stops developing players nor have I said that there comes a time where some coaching develop doesn't occur but I think that there has to come a time in a players career where he is the one who decides where it goes, how long it lasts and how good he becomes. What age and level of experience do you think that should be occurring at?

To give Laidley all the credit for Harding's last two years is not giving enough credit to Harding himself. Dean Laidley wasn't the one putting in all the work in Leigh Harding's rehab after Leigh did his knee.

 

[Zondor]

I understand your answer but it doesn't answer the question at all.

I have never said that a coach stops developing players nor have I said that there comes a time where some coaching develop doesn't occur but I think that there has to come a time in a players career where he is the one who decides where it goes, how long it lasts and how good he becomes. What age and level of experience do you think that should be occurring at?

I don't agree with the above bolded statement. I think it is a horseshit thought. This is because everybody is different. There are some young kids at Under 18 level that know exactly what they want to achieve with their career. They eat right, train right, really look after themselves. Then there are others who have talent but would rather have a drink and not concentrate on becoming a better player eventhough they may be very good anyways. These differences in people make your question impossible to answer IMO. What is that age when the penny drops? When does a player become responsible for their own careers? Sometimes it is at a very early age, sometimes it is mid career, sometimes it is on your last chance, sometimes it is never.

I put it to you that you will never understand my answer because you cannot accept this concept. If I was Laidleys I'd realise I cant learn yah and therefore I'd delist you from this forum.

To give Laidley all the credit for Harding's last two years is not giving enough credit to Harding himself. Dean Laidley wasn't the one putting in all the work in Leigh Harding's rehab after Leigh did his knee.

Never said that Laidley should get all the credit for Harding's last 2 years. No doubt Harding busted a gut to earn his spot in the side. What I was impressed with was the faith that Laidleys had in Harding and how he placed him on a half back line. This move worked. Harding with Laidleys' help developed into a good half back flanker last year providing plenty of run.

 

[DarwinRoo]

I don't agree with the above bolded statement. I think it is a horseshit thought. This is because everybody is different. There are some young kids at Under 18 level that know exactly what they want to achieve with their career. They eat right, train right, really look after themselves. Then there are others who have talent but would rather have a drink and not concentrate on becoming a better player eventhough they may be very good anyways. These differences in people make your question impossible to answer IMO. What is that age when the penny drops? When does a player become responsible for their own careers? Sometimes it is at a very early age, sometimes it is mid career, sometimes it is on your last chance, sometimes it is never.

I put it to you that you will never understand my answer because you cannot accept this concept. If I was Laidleys I'd realise I cant learn yah and therefore I'd delist you from this forum.

Never said that Laidley should get all the credit for Harding's last 2 years. No doubt Harding busted a gut to earn his spot in the side. What I was impressed with was the faith that Laidleys had in Harding and how he placed him on a half back line. This move worked. Harding with Laidleys' help developed into a good half back flanker last year providing plenty of run.

Well that is the first time you have actually taken the time to post something that resembles an answer to the question. Was it so difficult?

I put it to you that you can never except the fact that the players have as much say in how their career pans out as a coach does and if a player doesn't turn out to be any good you quickly blame the coach for not developing the player properly rather than looking at the player.

 

[Zondor]

Well that is the first time you have actually taken the time to post something that resembles an answer to the question. Was it so difficult?

I put it to you that you can never except the fact that the players have as much say in how their career pans out as a coach does and if a player doesn't turn out to be any good you quickly blame the coach for not developing the player properly rather than looking at the player.

You can put to me what ever you like that your brain decides to be fact, eventhough they are the thoughts of a deluded individual. It is entertaining.

Players play a part in their development. But so do coaches. That's Great. We got that figured out.

But coaches also fail themselves and their clubs in their inability to develop a player to their best potential. I'll give you someone who I think would have been a better player under a more attacking coach. Daniel Wells.

And so this gets us back to Dean Laidleys. What has been his success record in developing players? Inconsistant I say at best. This is not good enough IMO.