Autopsy The Grand Final - Take it apart here

[JNR33]

Glad I refrained from posting yesterday. Sydney were deserved winners. They were more determined and took their chances. I admired their resolve to get the job done and I hope our boys learn from their display. Inflated reputation and potential does not guarantee success. Gutted that we were within reach of it but were found wanting in the end.

Also, kudos to the class shown by opposition supporters posting here. I hope some of our members also learn from their example.

Bring on 2013. GO HAWKS!

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Just with regard to the 50m Mitchell gave away, I have heard opinions from commentators that the ball slipped out of his hand and also that the Swans player was backing away and the umpire was sucked in so maybe it wasn't as bad as it looked. As for paying 50m penalties in general for not handing back the ball 'nicely', well I think it's rubbish anyway (whether its us or the opposition) but that is the subject of another discussion.

 

[Argy]

Commiserations to all you Hawks fans, I know the gut-wrenching of losing a grand final that you felt your team should win, and the Hawks were clearly still in this game right to the end, unlike the Cats in '08.

If you want any advice on how to cope in the aftermath of the loss, I would suggest you completely avoid all newspapers/radio/TV news for the next week, watch replays of the 2008 GF, and then focus on trade week as the start of something better for next year.

I truly think Hawthorn has the talent to compete at the highest level next year again. And I think yesterday's close loss will burn in the guts of your players, and they'll use that next year to become mentally harder.

So please don't judge all Cats fans by the few idiots who are gloating now. I think you show your character by being gracious in both victory and defeat, and given that our team wasn't even competing in the GF, schadenfreude is an ugly emotion. So good luck for next year, and hopefully we'll see you in the 2013 finals.

Many thanks - good words of advice I think.

I've always had a deep respect for Geelong. I hope we can go on to be as successful as you have been over the last five years. I want to think the next five for us could be as good..

I am as empty as any other Hawks supporter today. I am haunted by all the "if only's". But in reality we weren't far off the pace. THe game ebbed and flowed and the two teams were incredibly evenly balanced. Both made mistakes and both had passages of inspired play. The basic difference at the end of the day was that we kicked badly. Had we been a bit more accurate on even a couple of shots the whole tone of the game could have changed. I haven't seen a replay, but if I recall correctly the final Swan's goal came from a lucky kick out of the air by a Swan's player (can't remember his name) who just happened to be in the wrong place for us. Had he missed, or had the kick gone to a Hawks player rather than a Swan then the result could have been different. That's how close we came.

Well done Swans. A hard fought and well deserved victory. Respect!

I can understand the disappointment of other posters here today, but I can't understand the negativity of many. I too wanted the premiership. As one commentator said - "second prize is a bag of shi*t". But we have to look forward.

As Clarson said, we have to continue to be present in September. We can't look at this as the end of anything, it will be the start of another great era for the Hawks. We were younger than the Swans by more than a year yesterday, and on average our players had one season less than their oponents. We are still young and still have plenty in the tank for success over the next five years.

GO HAWKS!

 

[PAOKTSIS]

Youngs decision not to throw his body at the ball cost us! Other players were in disbelief!

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this! Turning point of the final quarter. Simple as that.

Young has done this over and over again throughout his entire career...but yesterday's "effort" cost us in the biggest game of the season. I'd be disappointed if he is starting 22 (or 25) next season.

 

[darcy tyler]

Two words: Unsociable football.

Where was it? We looked like we didn't want to hurt Sydney at all. Did anyone else get the feeling that we were just too delicate out there?

And how can a forward line boasting players like Franklin, Roughead and Rioli look so damn powerless? Simply baffling.

I've never been so devestated after a game of football. I just sat in my seat and took in the whole presentation. I hope this feeling goes away at some stage.

 

[Bremner20]

Many thanks - good words of advice I think.

I've always had a deep respect for Geelong. I hope we can go on to be as successful as you have been over the last five years. I want to think the next five for us could be as good..

I am as empty as any other Hawks supporter today. I am haunted by all the "if only's". But in reality we weren't far off the pace. THe game ebbed and flowed and the two teams were incredibly evenly balanced. Both made mistakes and both had passages of inspired play. The basic difference at the end of the day was that we kicked badly. Had we been a bit more accurate on even a couple of shots the whole tone of the game could have changed. I haven't seen a replay, but if I recall correctly the final Swan's goal came from a lucky kick out of the air by a Swan's player (can't remember his name) who just happened to be in the wrong place for us. Had he missed, or had the kick gone to a Hawks player rather than a Swan then the result could have been different. That's how close we came.

Well done Swans. A hard fought and well deserved victory. Respect!

I can understand the disappointment of other posters here today, but I can't understand the negativity of many. I too wanted the premiership. As one commentator said - "second prize is a bag of shi*t". But we have to look forward.

As Clarson said, we have to continue to be present in September. We can't look at this as the end of anything, it will be the start of another great era for the Hawks. We were younger than the Swans by more than a year yesterday, and on average our players had one season less than their oponents. We are still young and still have plenty in the tank for success over the next five years.

GO HAWKS!

To come back from a qtr like our second qtr yesterday is a good effort ,for a lot of teams that would've been the end of the game in a GF ,to come back so easily to a point where you looked like winning 1/2 way through the last qtr proves we are a seriously talented side but whether it be inexperience whatever we just aren't mentally tough like the Swans.

 

[chaddles]

I don't think the forward line looked powerless, more wasteful which has been the theme recently (which I suppose makes it appear powerless).

Franklin, Rioli, Gunstan, Bruest, Roughead, Hale, Sewell, Suckling, Puopulo etc. show we have more than enough firepower. Just have to work out a way to make it less Buddy orientated yet keep him highly involved (if you get what I mean).

 

[shotgun_blues]

Could ponder so many ifs and buts...

- The downfield free that wasn't paid.
- Mitchell's stupid 50 (dumb)
- 2nd quarter complete disintegration.

What really cost us is not being able to kick a goal for the last 20 minutes. Just one more early in the last and we would've been over the line. We are too much of a burst team, and lack consistency. There's also no denying it but our forward structure since Buddy came back is deplorable which may not be his fault but the coaches instructions. He should stay in the square or on the wing. Too many times they kick it to him 40-50 out and it gets turned over.

Save for 10 minutes of burst football throughout the match we would have lost the other 110 minutes by 58 points. We had more clearances and more inside 50's. We have talent to burn in that part of the ground, yet it cost us a premiership. Who is the forward coach, he needs to be sacked. Writing has been on the wall before yesterday. Stupid passes, missed shots, poor decision making.

We're a team of champions, yet far from a champion team like Geelong 07-11, Brisbane 01-04, Hawthorn 83-91.

On top of that to win a Premiership you always need to ride some luck to get one. Luck wasn't on our side.

- Guerra/Whitecross going down.
- Sydney's manipulated extra day break.
- 3 posters
- I've never seen the ball bounce another's teams way so much.
- A couple of freak Sydney goals.

Bring on 2013.

 

[Taskmaster]

Just watched the replay and as hard it was to watch, Dennis Comettee hit the nail on the head. "There is a massive difference between wanting it and willing it" We want it but we are not prepared to will ourselves to get there. Thats was the difference yesterday!! The Swans boys absolutley willed themselves to win that biggest game of their lives, whereas we had to many passengers who took it for granted.

And Clarko made his first mistake earlier in the week, when he opted to choose Ellis over Murph. It was a joke. He has done jack shit all year and gets a GF birth......... Complete joke!!! And isnt it funny how we are always involved in the game of the season, but always on the arse end of the result...........

Congratulations to the swans boys, great win.

And Im already sick of hearing the 2013 we will be back there on GF day bigger and better. Sorry but I can stomach it. Heared it all before in the last 4 years. Maybe its time to start acting on the words!!! The thing I will say is that if we do not win it in 2013, this club will fall away! How many opportunities do you get?? 2011 and now 2012 have been those opportunities and we failed.

And I have it from a good source that all sydney silver members or their equivalent, all got seating allocation except 500. Where as all Hawthorn silver was standing room only......... That fat overpaid dictator is a disgrace and its about time our club stands up to these pricks and tell them enough is enough. The dictator would have a big smile on his face today, seeing he is financing both Sydney teams.

Anyway another summer of what ifs...............

 

[TraceyBB]

Allow me to interrupt. What's important is the way you react to this loss. You should try and learn from your recent rivals Geelong. After they lost the 2008 GF they regrouped and won 2 more flags (2009, 2011). This is what Hawthorn has to do, regroup and win the 2013 premiership. If you show the same character after a GF loss as your rivals Geelong has, then nobody can stop you winning the flag next year.

 

[PAOKTSIS]

Allow me to interrupt. What's important is the way you react to this loss. You should try and learn from your recent rivals Geelong. After they lost the 2008 GF they regrouped and won 2 more flags (2009, 2011). This is what Hawthorn has to do, regroup and win the 2013 premiership. If you show the same character after a GF loss as your rivals Geelong has, then nobody can stop you winning the flag next year.

Cheers for your comment TraceyBB.

We are a very young team...with a few more youngsters waiting to have a crack. Hopefully we add a few more to the list during the trading/draft period. We should be around for a few more years and, like you said, it all depends on how our players react to yesterday's loss.

 

[Matt_71]

It was a great GF, and I was lucky enough to have my 10yo there for his first Hawks GF. Obviously both disappointed that the Hawks couldn't drag themselves over the line. A terrible 2nd quarter really hurt us, and although we fought back well after that, the 2nd quarter cost us. Don't really think there's any value in bagging individual players - every club has a few in the 22 week in week out who struggle. Without being cruel, Mitch Morton was rejected by 2 clubs, did pretty much nothing for most of the game (other an a couple of lucky snaps), and is now a Premiership players. He's being hailed somewhat of a hero for those 2 goals, but if Sydney lost, no doubt a lot of their fans would be bagging him.

Chin up Hawks supporters, bring on 2013!!!

 

[Catsace]

Cat fan here, just wanted to give my two cents in a Grand Final where it ebbed and flowed between two committed, talented and powerful teams.

For many Hawk fans, seeing another side take the Premiership cup is a new experience. And of the six Grand Final losses in your history, this one stands alone in terms of being right in the game until the very end, with just 40 seconds left you were 4 points down. And in a head-bobbing finish....the Swans poked their head over the line first.

Most of your side is in the prime of it's age. Only Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis of your midfield is near 30 y/o, and you have a bevy of young players who have great talent and desire. Franklin and Rioli are so talented and dangerous no side can ever feel comfortable with those players in your team. Your side also has had two seasons losing only a bare handful of games, you won't be going anywhere but be right up there in the near future.

To be honest, 11.15 to 14.7 just tells the story. But your side has so many long, dangerous kicks, you will always generate a lot of scoring shots, and many of them may be long bombs that may or may not goal. Sydney were like men possessed.....few sides could recover twice from deficits against the Hawks and come back to win. They really did pull off a massive effort to overcome the Hawks in the finish.

I guess there is virtually no such thing as an ability to always win. As Clarkson quite eloquently put, you have two tough, hard sides going 100% at each other. There will be a winner and a loser. Federer was never unbeaten, nor is Nadal. When you play Grand Finals, almost always your opponent will be as brave a warrior you could face. It just cannot be statistically possible for only success to be the result in such a testing sphere. Among the results, sometimes your best just isn't enough on the day, or sometimes your best just isn't quite as good. In this context...Sydney perhaps by dint of that 66.7% goalkicking versus 42.3% of your side alone was enough for them to prevail.

Hawthorn is a great club. Ten Flags from 1961 onwards and 16 Grand Finals in 52 completed seasons is a great strike rate. Most wins of any club from 1961 onwards. And yesterday was the first of the six Grand Final defeats where you could honestly say you 'could have won that'. But when you look at the opposite side of the ledger, you have 1971, 1978, 1989 in your favour, where you overcame deficits and adversity to win. Your other seven wins, including '08 you were the best side and won convincingly. Simply put, your side will keep being up their because you have a great culture of success. In all aspects of endeavor, sometimes success is not always achieved. But it will spur your side to meet the challenge next time.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

In hindsight, we lost the premiership last week vs the crows. We Had to use the petrol tickets to win that becuase of our atrocious accuracy and that inaccuracy proved the problem again yesterday.

So much over reaction by supporters in the midst of despair. In a close game we blew our chances by missing time and time again. The footy gods only give you so many chances and I sensed at the game at quarter time that we would regret our early misses. And then the last quarter, well **** me, but how many more shots do you need?

Some credit to the AFL endorsed swans but this is one premiership we threw away.

 

[Paul007]

And I have it from a good source that all sydney silver members or their equivalent, all got seating allocation except 500. Where as all Hawthorn silver was standing room only......... That fat overpaid dictator is a disgrace and its about time our club stands up to these pricks and tell them enough is enough. The dictator would have a big smile on his face today, seeing he is financing both Sydney teams.

I had a standing room ticket myself and I noticed there were no Swans supporters standing but had all the seats and I was wondering about it, feel really ripped off now, one more thing we should ask the AFL about, I will email the club about it. Standing room tickets were $180 and I spoke to someone who was a Kennedy club member and paid $300 to be up the back of level 4.

 

[Glasgow Hawk]

I had a standing room ticket myself and I noticed there were no Swans supporters standing but had all the seats and I was wondering about it, feel really ripped off now, one more thing we should ask the AFL about, I will email the club about it. Standing room tickets were $180 and I spoke to someone who was a Kennedy club member and paid $300 to be up the back of level 4.

Ditto.. I'm also going to write to the club, AFL & Ticketek and anyone else who will listen. Myself and the two family members that were sitting with me are all Gold Members and we ended up in Q35 in Row T!! We also paid $300 for our tix. What we noticed in our section was that it was predominately Swans members and then some Hawks members thrown in at the front of the section. And now I understand why my seating allocation originally showed "Swans Member" that is because we were thrown in a bloody Swans section. We were not happy... There seemed to be huge "Red" sections around the ground that were clearly given to Sydney members and us Hawks members were given the sloppy second best.

 

[Pessimistic]

Swans members down to silver did not total the 14,000 they were alllocated. maybe as low as 11,000 before a second chance at thir allocation
Hawks had at least 20,000 in the first ballot

We obviously got more tickets to members this year but I reckon sydney got the bays we got in 2008 and we got the cats ones
People are saying the atmosphere was much better, althought there was a 1000 shortfall due to southern stand renovations - not great planning that !!!

Sydney were good at being supplied with red ponchos which made them stand out.

Hawthorn needs to concentrate on Gold for our merchandise - poarticularly match day stuff. we dont need fancy white or brown away strips etc

 

[hk89]

Just with regard to the 50m Mitchell gave away, I have heard opinions from commentators that the ball slipped out of his hand and also that the Swans player was backing away and the umpire was sucked in so maybe it wasn't as bad as it looked. As for paying 50m penalties in general for not handing back the ball 'nicely', well I think it's rubbish anyway (whether its us or the opposition) but that is the subject of another discussion.

The replay shown at the ground seemed to suggest to me that Mitchell had done a reasonable job of throwing the ball back to the Swans player, but the Swans player was on the move, and ran straight past Mitchell's throw, making no attempt to try to gather the ball. Mitchell's throw was probably clumsy, but I was pretty angry at the ground when I saw the replay. Anyway, I'm sure mistakes were made the other way, and don't think any umpiring decisions were game changing, I just don't think Mitchell deserves lynching over that one, as I think he made a legitimate attempt to return the ball to the player.

 

[Pessimistic]

I was going to mention I personally didnt like the jetta cyril chase.

Cyril doesnt have Jettas tank and it probably didnt help the rest of his game. Would have been better if someone els had intercepted jetta - there were a few about. Was a bit too macho by Cyril and anyway the spectacle was ruined by a soft free at the end

 

[Pessimistic]

The replay shown at the ground seemed to suggest to me that Mitchell had done a reasonable job of throwing the ball back to the Swans player, but the Swans player was on the move, and ran straight past Mitchell's throw, making no attempt to try to gather the ball. Mitchell's throw was probably clumsy, but I was pretty angry at the ground when I saw the replay. Anyway, I'm sure mistakes were made the other way, and don't think any umpiring decisions were game changing, I just don't think Mitchell deserves lynching over that one, as I think he made a legitimate attempt to return the ball to the player.

Yeah -if he had waited for the guy to stand still it would have been legitimate and actually held up play longer.

Not that the umpiring was bad but await the geisch on this one - could be another bullshit tactic by players from now on, moving so the returned ball misses you.

The siddey guy made a meal of it - one of Goodseys mates

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Lost in the First quarter. Buddy and Hale both missed straight set shots, why the f$%# Roughie played on under pressure when GUNSTON would have had a set shot from 40 metres out on a slight angle from a holding the ball free kick is beyond me as well. 3 easy goals thrown away plus we were running into another goal when the siren went. 8 goal first quarter would have blown the swans off the field.

We can't rely on Buddy all the time though I don't think he should have passed to Gunston late in the 4th, Buddy is paid the big bucks to kick those goals and Gunston marked on a tight angle - don't want to be seen as critical of Buddy though, that goal from 60 metres out was amazing and if it wasn't for him we would have been smashed.....

BTW some silver members did get seats but way up the back....

 

[chaddles]

I was silver and up the back of Q33.

 

[Catsace]

Lost in the First quarter. Buddy and Hale both missed straight set shots, why the f$%# Roughie played on under pressure when GUNSTON would have had a set shot from 40 metres out on a slight angle from a holding the ball free kick is beyond me as well. 3 easy goals thrown away plus we were running into another goal when the siren went. 8 goal first quarter would have blown the swans off the field.

We can't rely on Buddy all the time though I don't think he should have passed to Gunston late in the 4th, Buddy is paid the big bucks to kick those goals and Gunston marked on a tight angle - don't want to be seen as critical of Buddy though, that goal from 60 metres out was amazing and if it wasn't for him we would have been smashed.....

BTW some silver members did get seats but way up the back....

Gunston from memory actually ran from a fair way behind the mark to make position totally unopposed and only about 20m out. For a right footer, his angle was no more than 45 deg. The pass was fine, Franklin was about 50 m out, and his shot hit the inside right post. Gunston had something like 24.5 from set shots as well all season. Just not your day when those things don't come off.

 

[Pessimistic]

Gunston from memory actually ran from a fair way behind the mark to make position totally unopposed and only about 20m out. For a right footer, his angle was no more than 45 deg. The pass was fine, Franklin was about 50 m out, and his shot hit the inside right post. Gunston had something like 24.5 from set shots as well all season. Just not your day when those things don't come off.

Yep. Buds did the right thing and gunner as soooo close,
After that I knew it was lost

 

[QuietB]

Hawks lost because of bad kicking for goal. That simple. It has been a problem all year and it raised its ugly head on the last day. Swans will compete and compete to keep themselves close enough, and the Hawks gave them a helping hand and the Swans took full advantage. Full credit to them. It is a basic skill of the game and for the best field kicking team in the comp the Hawks are deplorable at it.

It has been talked about in just about every post match thread this year and on the biggest stage when the Hawks had the least margin for error it has cost them a premiership.

Doesn't make the Hawks unlucky or the Swans fortunate. It makes the Hawks not good enough and the Swans too good. Congratulations to Sydney who fully deserved the win.