The Great Injustice - The Grand Final Contract thread

[Pessimistic]

Interesting this discussion kicked off over the capacity of the new Perth Stadium. I know the AFL are greedy but whatever your bows on the GF moving from the MCG one day, I believe it's a separate discussion to stadium capacity.

Some of the largest soccer games in the world have been played at sub 80k stadiums including World Cup and Champions League finals. The WC final, a global event only played once every four years, played at stadiums holding in some cases well under the 80k mark. The MCG is one of the largest stadiums in the world (and mostly has college gridiron stadiums for company), so while it is filled for GF's, using that as the 'minimum benchmark' for how large a GF suitable stadium should be is like using a Ferrari as the benchmark for how quick all road going cars should accelerate.

FIFA happily saw south africa build a stadium in the bush wasting scarce goverment resources (don even mention qatar) so hardly a model to be following Soccer crowds are 80% adult males so that would be completely alien to our sport

Easier for the naysayers to change to soccer, see how much FIFA cares for you in Perth and Adelaide. Success is totally secured by the big countries and clubs

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Getting second teams in each non victorian state stuffed it in terms of success more than the location of the grand final - just look at the results

I see only Eagles 2006 and Sydney 2012 have won a flag since getting a second team in their state, and Port 2004 the only win by a second team

Eagles 1992 1994 Crows 1997 1998 Brisbane 2001 2002 2003 Sydney 2005 are the other wins 7 from 8 against victorian teams

Port entered in 97 so add the Crows 2.

Winning the ultimate also takes luck, so you should be looking at prelim finalists. Considering the Vic government held an inquiry into the state of Victorian football after the 2006 season, because the rest of Australia had just won 10 of the last 14 grand finals including the last 6. So it's not that outrageous that some flags were won.

 

[BulldogJake]

Not at all. I definitely ain't. I just don't think that teams should be given a "Privilege" because the play in a city.

We did join a Victorian league but its an Australian league now. In 2037 it will have been an Australian league for 47 years and the Grand Final won't have been played in another Australian city. 2037 there will be stadiums fit.

The only one likely is Perth Stadium if it gets expanded but that's also an IF most games can attract 50,000+. SCG far too small, same with the GABBA and Metricon and Adelaide Oval - PS. Adelaide Oval just about fine how it is, won't be rebuilt for a very long time.

 

[magpienato]

The money would be made up by the cities bidding on the GF. I know the corporates give money etc etc, but moving the GF like the NFL does with the Superbowl is the only right option. The unfair advantage these teams are given is ludicrous and respect the fans in other states.

This explains my point and idea perfectly. If anyone has the time give this somewhat related article a read. It explains the bidding process for the NFL's Superbowl.

 

[magpienato]

Also another thought that comes to mind. I'm not really an economic expert but maybe it could be beneficial for the AFL to sell the tickets to interstates at a reduced price as to raise the attendance if expected to be low. For an example:

Hypothetical GF @ Perth Stadium, North Melbourne vs Sydney:
Capacity: 80k - 100k. Let's say for whatever reason the estimate attendance is sitting around 60k - 70k. AFL wants to pull more demand in to make more money so what's the most logical thing to do to increase demand? Lower the price. Specifically to interstate supporters from QLD, TAS or SA who already would have the burden of paying for flights + accommodation. The AFL (as well as the stadium owners) are making less money which is true, however in turn they're making a profit by increase what was looking like a 70k GF into a certain 80k or 90k attendance.

Please continue this discussion as I think both sides are making very interesting points/ideas

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Also another thought that comes to mind. I'm not really an economic expert but maybe it could be beneficial for the AFL to sell the tickets to interstates at a reduced price as to raise the attendance if expected to be low. For an example:

Hypothetical GF @ Perth Stadium, North Melbourne vs Sydney:
Capacity: 80k - 100k. Let's say for whatever reason the estimate attendance is sitting around 60k - 70k. AFL wants to pull more demand in to make more money so what's the most logical thing to do to increase demand? Lower the price. Specifically to interstate supporters from QLD, TAS or SA who already would have the burden of paying for flights + accommodation. The AFL (as well as the stadium owners) are making less money which is true, however in turn they're making a profit by increase what was looking like a 70k GF into a certain 80k or 90k attendance.

Please continue this discussion as I think both sides are making very interesting points/ideas

If that was the case, then why the **** aren't I and other interstate fans getting cheaper tickets when we go to Melbourne when our team makes it?

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

If that was the case, then why the **** aren't I and other interstate fans getting cheaper tickets when we go to Melbourne when our team makes it?

Because cheap tickets to pad a poor attendance aren't required in Melbourne. Personally I don't think GF attendance would be poor at any ground with any combination of teams.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Because cheap tickets to pad a poor attendance aren't required in Melbourne. Personally I don't think GF attendance would be poor at any ground with any combination of teams.

The grand final would definitely be a sell out regardless. Surely you've seen the spike in airline fees around the grand final if the Eagles and Dockers win their first 4 games. Would be no different. Fan's don't want to miss the chance to see their team win.

 

[Cudi_420]

My concern with both Adelaide and Perth is infrastructure and hospitality. Perth is probably a more viable option because of the new stadium but I'd still have concerns of accomodation availability and travel costs, which would be higher from Melb-Perth for the GF than they are from Perth-Melb for the GF, which are already very high as I'm sure Eagles and Dockers fans know.

Simply having the stadium isn't enough. There's a lot more you need to consider. Another thing is the timing and broadcasting: do you start the game at 1:30pm so it starts at 3:30pm on the east coast? Or start it later? Might seem trivial but these are things that need to be considered because the east coast is the larger market of interest by a substantial margin.

You're looking at an influx of 30,000-40,000 (probably more) people from interstate. They wouldn't all be going to the game. If Melbourne made the GF and I couldn't get a ticket I'd book flights to Perth anyway just to be in the city when/if they won and on the off-chance I get a ticket.

This is actually a 2-3 day event because you have people arriving the day or 2 days before, and leaving a day or 2 after.

I seriously think both of these cities would have to make makeshift structures and divert a lot of traffic to handle the influx. People seem to understate how much a city changes for events like this. Come to Melbourne during GF weekend when two interstate teams are playing, or the Grand Prix, or the Aus Open. Walking traffic increases tenfold. More traffic. Accommodation is booked solid. This is in a city of 5 million people. Can cities of 1.5-2 million cope in the same way?

These a legitimate concerns. I wouldn't mind a Perth GF and I don't want Perthians (?) to think this is a dick-measuring contest. Just things I've always imagined have been stumbling blocks for attracting the GF there. There's also the corporate aspect, with huge corporate backing in Victoria for the match. Hard to swallow I know but it's a harsh reality.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

My concern with both Adelaide and Perth is infrastructure and hospitality. Perth is probably a more viable option because of the new stadium but I'd still have concerns of accomodation availability and travel costs, which would be higher from Melb-Perth for the GF than they are from Perth-Melb for the GF, which are already very high as I'm sure Eagles and Dockers fans know.

Simply having the stadium isn't enough. There's a lot more you need to consider. Another thing is the timing and broadcasting: do you start the game at 1:30pm so it starts at 3:30pm on the east coast? Or start it later? Might seem trivial but these are things that need to be considered because the east coast is the larger market of interest by a substantial margin.

You're looking at an influx of 30,000-40,000 (probably more) people from interstate. They wouldn't all be going to the game. If Melbourne made the GF and I couldn't get a ticket I'd book flights to Perth anyway just to be in the city when/if they won and on the off-chance I get a ticket.

This is actually a 2-3 day event because you have people arriving the day or 2 days before, and leaving a day or 2 after.

I seriously think both of these cities would have to make makeshift structures and divert a lot of traffic to handle the influx. People seem to understate how much a city changes for events like this. Come to Melbourne during GF weekend when two interstate teams are playing, or the Grand Prix, or the Aus Open. Walking traffic increases tenfold. More traffic. Accommodation is booked solid. This is in a city of 5 million people. Can cities of 1.5-2 million cope in the same way?

These a legitimate concerns. I wouldn't mind a Perth GF and I don't want Perthians (?) to think this is a dick-measuring contest. Just things I've always imagined have been stumbling blocks for attracting the GF there. There's also the corporate aspect, with huge corporate backing in Victoria for the match. Hard to swallow I know but it's a harsh reality.

First paragraph - get over it. People will always pay to see their team in the grand final. You answered yourself in the 3rd paragraph. People will drive or bus. SA, WA, NSW & QLD fans do it.

2nd You can have a grand final that is twilight in Perth and televised into the night in Melbourne. Or Day time in Perth and it will be twilight on the East.

It would be more than a 2-3 day event because you would incorporate the whole week. Brownlow medal etc. It would be a festival of football where ever that may be.

Perth is over 2 million already and by 2037 will be bigger. We are currently going through a densification of the city after decades of spreading.

 

[The_Wookie]

It would be more than a 2-3 day event because you would incorporate the whole week. Brownlow medal etc. It would be a festival of football where ever that may be.

Brownlow medal probably wouldnt be held there as well as the Grand Final in any case, unless the Government paid for that. Its already one of those things, along with the draft, that the AFL does flog off to other cities. The Grand Final parade is a case in point - its a Melbourne tradition (and now a public holiday in Vic) that wouldnt necessarily translate anywhere else.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Brownlow medal probably wouldnt be held there as well as the Grand Final in any case, unless the Government paid for that. Its already one of those things, along with the draft, that the AFL does flog off to other cities. The Grand Final parade is a case in point - its a Melbourne tradition (and now a public holiday in Vic) that wouldnt necessarily translate anywhere else.

So move the grand final but keep the parade in Melbourne?

If the Grand Final was to be moved you would move the whole week. The media will be here already, the fans, etc.

 

[The_Wookie]

So move the grand final but keep the parade in Melbourne?

If the Grand Final was to be moved you would move the whole week. The media will be here already, the fans, etc.

Fans arent going to fly over for the week. Who can get a week off in September at short notice?

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Fans arent going to fly over for the week. Who can get a week off in September at short notice?

The parade is on a Friday...... the day before. There are fans in Perth/Adelaide/etc. There are fans that will be able to afford it and get here Wednesday and enjoy the whole week. **** If a vic team got in and they wanted to do a piddly parade with their own team on the Friday, good on them, the red eye flight will have them primed for the game.

 

[Cudi_420]

First paragraph - get over it. People will always pay to see their team in the grand final. You answered yourself in the 3rd paragraph. People will drive or bus. SA, WA, NSW & QLD fans do it.

2nd You can have a grand final that is twilight in Perth and televised into the night in Melbourne. Or Day time in Perth and it will be twilight on the East.

It would be more than a 2-3 day event because you would incorporate the whole week. Brownlow medal etc. It would be a festival of football where ever that may be.

Perth is over 2 million already and by 2037 will be bigger. We are currently going through a densification of the city after decades of spreading.

Why do you Perth lot always take things so personally when talking about the city? It's like you're trying to compensate for something. It was just a reflection and a post. Get over yourself.

 

[SgtSchulz]

How good would it be to showcase the best stadiums around the country and truly make it a national competition!

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Would it be possible to have a grand stand whereby the ground levels are grass banks?

I'm sure it is but people will pretend it isn't.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Another thing is the timing and broadcasting: do you start the game at 1:30pm so it starts at 3:30pm on the east coast? Or start it later? Might seem trivial but these are things that need to be considered because the east coast is the larger market of interest by a substantial margin.

How is this is an issue at all? You'd just schedule game two hours earlier than in Melbourne...

 

[Ned_Flanders]

How good would it be to showcase the best stadiums around the country and truly make it a national competition!
View attachment 322754
View attachment 322755
View attachment 322756

When has the afl cared about that?

You can showcase stadiums all you want, as long as the afl earns more than they do hosting at the mcg. Right or wrong, this is all about coin

 

[flamingEMBERS]

still waiting on your opinion rfctiger74 rather than what you think the AFL will do.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

still waiting on your opinion rfctiger74 rather than what you think the AFL will do.

Ive said it 500 times, but you keep ignoring it. They will keep it in Melbourne at the MCG because between the additional seats, additional corporate suites, MCC funding for redeveloping the GSS, and Vic Govt funding for the redevelopment of the Etihad site, they will get more money staying in Vic than going to Perth.

its all about money as ive said all along

 

[The_Wookie]

still waiting on your opinion rfctiger74 rather than what you think the AFL will do.

How is that not the same thing?

 

[flamingEMBERS]

How is that not the same thing?

Because he's never answered the question I asked. Is it right or fair that a competition gives a "privilege" to 10 clubs every year? Is it right or fair to ignore the fans in other states?

See his most recent answer: It wont happen because they want money. Was never the question I asked. Money was involved in slavery too.

 

[The_Wookie]

Because he's never answered the question I asked. Is it right or fair that a competition gives a "privilege" to 10 clubs every year? Is it right or fair to ignore the fans in other states?

See his most recent answer: It wont happen because they want money. Was never the question I asked. Money was involved in slavery too.

Hes not on the Commission. Any answer he gives about their intent is his opinion. Dont be so melodramatic.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Hes not on the Commission. Any answer he gives about their intent is his opinion. Dont be so melodramatic.

Yeah his opinion of what he thinks they'll do. I never asked what he thinks they'll do.

The first question's when regarding the moving of the grand final are:

1. Is it fair that 10 clubs get an underlying privilege in this competition when it comes to the Grand Final?
2. Is it fair on the players at the "interstate" clubs to have this privilege against them every year?
3. Is it fair on the fans who can't travel for whatever reasons to never be able to experience a Grand Final week?

Please answer the above questions, then we can talk about money. That is all. We have 21 years to find ways to make up the money. So smart investments and creating a future fund would be a great start now.