The Great Injustice - The Grand Final Contract thread

[The_Wookie]

Yeah his opinion of what he thinks they'll do. I never asked what he thinks they'll do.

Your asking for his opinion of something that is his opinion.

Please answer the above questions, then we can talk about money. That is all. We have 21 years to find ways to make up the money. So smart investments and creating a future fund would be a great start now.

your questions have been answered ad nauseum. We know its not a fair system. The question you should be asking is why such an unfair system exists. Until you can answer that - and understand the answer, talking anything else is pointless.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Because he's never answered the question I asked. Is it right or fair that a competition gives a "privilege" to 10 clubs every year? Is it right or fair to ignore the fans in other states?

See his most recent answer: It wont happen because they want money. Was never the question I asked. Money was involved in slavery too.

If your asking is it fair in a perfect world, of course its not.

BUT in a perfect world we would have one team per city, each team has its own home ground, each team is forced to stay in the air for an identical period of time each week, and you play the all sides an identical number of times.

We have none of that

My view, is it is too high a cost for non melbourne states to pay. It will cost tens of millions of dollars, and in fairness ALL clubs have to host on rotation. That means gfs in geelong and gc once every 18 years, and ensuring their stadium is fit for purpose (a capital cost which is stupid)

Saying "only perth and melbourne" doesnt break the injustice at all.

Your idea would see white elephants created in most states, or afl revenues falling considerably. Both are stupid outcomes for a national league trying to build in qld/nsw

You still havent said where the tens of millions of dollars is going to come from either. Govt will not wear this high a cost

 

[flamingEMBERS]

If your asking is it fair in a perfect world, of course its not.

BUT in a perfect world we would have one team per city, each team has its own home ground, each team is forced to stay in the air for an identical period of time each week, and you play the all sides an identical number of times.

We have none of that

My view, is it is too high a cost for non melbourne states to pay. It will cost tens of millions of dollars, and in fairness ALL clubs have to host on rotation. That means gfs in geelong and gc once every 18 years, and ensuring their stadium is fit for purpose (a capital cost which is stupid)

Saying "only perth and melbourne" doesnt break the injustice at all.

Your idea would see white elephants created in most states, or afl revenues falling considerably. Both are stupid outcomes for a national league trying to build in qld/nsw

You still havent said where the tens of millions of dollars is going to come from either. Govt will not wear this high a cost

Firstly, thank you for finally answering my question. I know it's been hard for you to admit that it's unfair.

Next, I'd guarantee that each team outside of Victoria would vote in favour of the grand final being played out of Melbourne every now and then even if their state could never host. So by saying that it's unfair if two cities rotate the grand final, it must also be unfair if on city just owns it. I'm not saying every second year, maybe the game gets played here once a decade, or once every 5 years, but that would be awesome!

How about, instead of my club paying money to prop up clubs that have been poorly run for 100+ years, we put that in a future fund to bring the game west once every now and then. I can also say that the WA government that brings the GF to Perth would be voted in endlessly.

I don't think paying to bring the AFL Grand Final to Perth would be any more of a white elephant than the F1 Grand Prix that Melbourne hosts. So what the WA government pays to have the Grand Final in Perth, the added influx of 30-40k fans coming to the game and some that will come without tickets is a massive boost to the economy. In 1991 when we traveled to Melbourne for the GF, melbourne businesses treated us like shit. If we had our team colours on we were given the stink eye. In 1992 it was the complete opposite after they realised the bumper sales they had the weekend was completely attributed to the an influx of fans from the West. Maybe you won't come but **** me sideways, I guarantee if the Tigers made the grand final in 2038 and it was in Perth there would be a 30k strong Tiger army coming across.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Firstly, thank you for finally answering my question. I know it's been hard for you to admit that it's unfair.

Next, I'd guarantee that each team outside of Victoria would vote in favour of the grand final being played out of Melbourne every now and then even if their state could never host. So by saying that it's unfair if two cities rotate the grand final, it must also be unfair if on city just owns it. I'm not saying every second year, maybe the game gets played here once a decade, or once every 5 years, but that would be awesome!

How about, instead of my club paying money to prop up clubs that have been poorly run for 100+ years, we put that in a future fund to bring the game west once every now and then. I can also say that the WA government that brings the GF to Perth would be voted in endlessly.

I don't think paying to bring the AFL Grand Final to Perth would be any more of a white elephant than the F1 Grand Prix that Melbourne hosts. So what the WA government pays to have the Grand Final in Perth, the added influx of 30-40k fans coming to the game and some that will come without tickets is a massive boost to the economy. In 1991 when we traveled to Melbourne for the GF, melbourne businesses treated us like shit. If we had our team colours on we were given the stink eye. In 1992 it was the complete opposite after they realised the bumper sales they had the weekend was completely attributed to the an influx of fans from the West. Maybe you won't come but **** me sideways, I guarantee if the Tigers made the grand final in 2038 and it was in Perth there would be a 30k strong Tiger army coming across.

you are a deadset moron, I said that weeks ago - you just chose to ignore it. On fairness there are much more critical issues for the AFL to address before this, at a much smaller cost (ie equalized fixture)

the white elephants are the 60-80k stadiums in Brisbane, Adelaide, Gold Coast, Geelong, and even Sydney - there is a reason the Olympic stadium is being reconfigured to a rectangular field. Brisbane, GC, Geelong would only host once every 18 years, adelaide and sydney once every 9. You are talking about major capital improvements in the tens or hundreds of millions at the Gabba, Metricon, Simmonds, AO, and the SCG, for capacity demands they will only have once a decade - or once every second decade. That is the height of financial waste.

Also each stadium would need MASSIVE increases in the corporate facilities they currently hold. this would be huge negative in these same markets, because the premium earned on such arrangements in all states outside melbourne because of the lack of year round corporate demand (increase supply, price falls).

Also the travel benefit would be minimal. People dont travel in the 30-40k numbers, and they definitely wont do that for perth. Melbourne has 32k rooms, so the notion of 40k people visiting in one weekend for one event is just stupid. Also perth has all of 10k hotel rooms. where are all these tens of thousands of tourists staying? you're mums granny flat in the backyard?

Fairness is outweighed by the cost. the cost of upgrading several stadia well above their normally required capacity. the cost of paying the afl the rights to host the game full stop. the costs are fair bigger than the fairness issue.

you want to improve fairness in the game? fight for a season where all clubs play all opponents and equal number of times, with no blockbuster or derby guarantees.

 

[RedV3x]

Yes it's unfair that the AFL GF is held in Melbourne.
It's unfair that interstate clubs have to travel more.
It's unfair that Melbourne clubs have more derbies.
It's unfair that there is a structured draw.
It's unfair that the worst team gets the best picks.
It's unfair that some clubs make more money than others.
It's unfair that some clubs have better facilities than others.
It's unfair that some clubs have better coaches than others.
It's unfair that some clubs have better players than others.
It's unfair that some clubs play other clubs when they have injuries or the other club is in form.
It's unfair that one club gets paid 8 frees to 22 in an AFL GF.
It's unfair that some premierships are tainted by drugs.
It's unfair that a club lost all it's players due to to some foreign power's interference.

It's not like the Olympics were the athletes compete with the same equipment otherwise each AFL club would start each year with the same money, the same facilities and the same budget for coaches and ancillary staff.

It's not fair, but take solace in the fact that interstate clubs will get increasingly stronger with their access to greater population bases
and Melbourne clubs will increasingly struggle to gain relevent market share.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Yes it's unfair that the AFL GF is held in Melbourne.
It's unfair that interstate clubs have to travel more. - it's fair that they play 11 away games.
It's unfair that Melbourne clubs have more derbies. - who cares for that, but they should all just travel the same
It's unfair that there is a structured draw.
It's unfair that the worst team gets the best picks. - don't agree. all for lottery.
It's unfair that some clubs make more money than others. no it's not
It's unfair that some clubs have better facilities than others. no it's not
It's unfair that some clubs have better coaches than others.no it's not
It's unfair that some clubs have better players than others. - not it's not
It's unfair that some clubs play other clubs when they have injuries or the other club is in form. - no it's not
It's unfair that one club gets paid 8 frees to 22 in an AFL GF. - not if they're there
It's unfair that some premierships are tainted by drugs. - no ones tested positive on GF day eyt
It's unfair that a club lost all it's players due to to some foreign power's interference. That's the fairest thing that happened! **** cheats.

It's not like the Olympics were the athletes compete with the same equipment otherwise each AFL club would start each year with the same money, the same facilities and the same budget for coaches and ancillary staff.

It's not fair, but take solace in the fact that interstate clubs will get increasingly stronger with their access to greater population bases
and Melbourne clubs will increasingly struggle to gain relevent market share.

 

[RedV3x]

"............."

You need to see the big picture.

 

[JD Tomahawk]

How about only derby GF's played outside of Vic. Would work well for the QLD and NSW teams. Insures no empty seats. Obviously WA and SA teams stadiums would be full no matter what, but I can't imagine they would complain. A nice little compromise. If its still a possibility come PF week just make sure the state/stadium is ready to go. Problem would be ticket holders not knowing where its played until a week before with travel arrangements already made for the G. Not sure how to accommodate a sudden change in schedule. Maybe if you book your flight and turns out it is going to be a derby GF the airline refunds, under an AFL pre arranged partnership?. Ticket and seat allocation could have plan B so its all easily swapped. A lot of extra work for companies just in case but this could all Work if they want it to. AFL on the other hand will be happy to keep it at the G. Guaranteed an extra at least 20-30k more tickets sold. They think $ first unfortunately. Otherwise our comp would already be fair and equal for all. Just of the top of my head, WA teams could get an extra home game to level the travel they do during the year. Melbourne teams do play a lot of away games at their home ground and at least in their own state.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

How about only derby GF's played outside of Vic. Would work well for the QLD and NSW teams. Insures no empty seats. Obviously WA and SA teams stadiums would be full no matter what, but I can't imagine they would complain. A nice little compromise. If its still a possibility come PF week just make sure the state/stadium is ready to go. Problem would be ticket holders not knowing where its played until a week before with travel arrangements already made for the G. Not sure how to accommodate a sudden change in schedule. Maybe if you book your flight and turns out it is going to be a derby GF the airline refunds, under an AFL pre arranged partnership?. Ticket and seat allocation could have plan B so its all easily swapped. A lot of extra work for companies just in case but this could all Work if they want it to. AFL on the other hand will be happy to keep it at the G. Guaranteed an extra at least 20-30k more tickets sold. They think $ first unfortunately. Otherwise our comp would already be fair and equal for all. Just of the top of my head, WA teams could get an extra home game to level the travel they do during the year. Melbourne teams do play a lot of away games at their home ground and at least in their own state.

Nah sorry. We're not a side show. Plus as if Virgin would allow that given they are the major sponsor it's a cash cow GF weekend with us "interstaters". Sounds like we're the illegal immigrants using that word.

 

[JD Tomahawk]

Nah sorry. We're not a side show. Plus as if Virgin would allow that given they are the major sponsor it's a cash cow GF weekend with us "interstaters". Sounds like we're the illegal immigrants using that word.

Well unfortunately for you I don't see Perth hosting an Adelaide vs Gold Coast GF just because it was decided at the start of the year. Nor a Richmond vs Fremantle at the Gabba for the same reason. Atleast derby Grand Finals held in their own state is a start. It should be the first thing decided when the contract is up.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Well unfortunately for you I don't see Perth hosting an Adelaide vs Gold Coast GF just because it was decided at the start of the year. Nor a Richmond vs Fremantle at the Gabba for the same reason. Atleast derby Grand Finals held in their own state is a start. It should be the first thing decided when the contract is up.

I think that would prove how amateur and pathetic the competition is if they decide that the grand final will be set in stone at Stadium A before the season
*unless these combination of teams play in which case it will be played at Stadium B
** but if this other combination of teams plays each other we will play it at Stadium C

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Only came to this discussion late ... but there was a snippet in a post above that intrigued me. The timing of the game is the big seller I reckon. The AFL has been blue-balling itself for the last few years over their desire to have a night or twilight GF fighting against wanting to keep the tradition of the day GF. They just can't pull the trigger and make the decision.

In an ideal world, if Perth and the WA Government was really gung-ho about getting a GF, then they should have people in the ear of the AFL now about hosting a GF as early as 2018. The major selling point of a Perth GF is that the AFL gets their twilight GF for the east coast TV audience while keeping the tradition of the day game.

Obviously a shit-tonne of contractual things to work through but now that you guys in WA have pretty much stopped pulling minerals out of the ground I'm sure you have a couple of hundred blokes sitting around with not much else to do who could work on pulling together an attractive proposal for the MCC and AFL.

 

[RedV3x]

I think that would prove how amateur and pathetic the competition is if they decide that the grand final will be set in stone at Stadium A before the season

How about you list major football codes that DO have flexible GF arrangements.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Only came to this discussion late ... but there was a snippet in a post above that intrigued me. The timing of the game is the big seller I reckon. The AFL has been blue-balling itself for the last few years over their desire to have a night or twilight GF fighting against wanting to keep the tradition of the day GF. They just can't pull the trigger and make the decision.

In an ideal world, if Perth and the WA Government was really gung-ho about getting a GF, then they should have people in the ear of the AFL now about hosting a GF as early as 2018. The major selling point of a Perth GF is that the AFL gets their twilight GF for the east coast TV audience while keeping the tradition of the day game.

Obviously a shit-tonne of contractual things to work through but now that you guys in WA have pretty much stopped pulling minerals out of the ground I'm sure you have a couple of hundred blokes sitting around with not much else to do who could work on pulling together an attractive proposal for the MCC and AFL.

I wish it was that easy, but there's a contract and we've seen how the MCC and AFL have stolen finals off clubs before (Eagles twice and Brisbane once). Then there will be the state government. 2038 is the year. Get the ball rolling now for that year.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

How about you list major football codes that DO have flexible GF arrangements.

I couldn't name any that would be as biased and stupid as suggested above. Our current system isn't as biased but not as stupid.

Giving a team home ground because they are higher is a completely different story.

 

[RedV3x]

I couldn't name any that would be as biased and stupid as suggested above. Our current system isn't as biased but not as stupid.

Giving a team home ground because they are higher is a completely different story.

So you think the NRL are stupid ?

 

[flamingEMBERS]

So you think the NRL are stupid ?

Yep. Anything NRL is ****ing Stupid. Have you ever heard them speak

 

[RedV3x]

Yep. Anything NRL is ******* Stupid. Have you ever heard them speak

And the EPL used Tottenham before Wembley.

 

[Psi-Roos]

West Coast and Freo fans will cry no matter where it is held, unless it's in Perth. They can't seem to fathom that, like myself, they choose to live on the arse end of the Earth so must travel a fair bit more.

Say you do a rotating GF. Do you decide at the start of the year? Do you decide in advance? If it is a Derby GF do you break the cycle and possible pre existing bidding processes to move the GF to Perth? How is that fair for the city that budgeted on the fiscal windfall of their turn at the GF?

The logistics of it would be an avsoloute nightmare and I can see clubs formally protesting the location every year.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

West Coast and Freo fans will cry no matter where it is held, unless it's in Perth. They can't seem to fathom that, like myself, they choose to live on the arse end of the Earth so must travel a fair bit more.

Say you do a rotating GF. Do you decide at the start of the year? Do you decide in advance? If it is a Derby GF do you break the cycle and possible pre existing bidding processes to move the GF to Perth? How is that fair for the city that budgeted on the fiscal windfall of their turn at the GF?

The logistics of it would be an avsoloute nightmare and I can see clubs formally protesting the location every year.

Your first line is so true for yourself and the "traditionalists" that want it to stay in Melbourne. Get out of your bubble. You're an out and out moron. I'd love the GF to be played in all the cities. It is you that is the whinger.

Be no different to the super bowl. Bid on and decided on years in advance. I think you can't fathom it leaving Melbourne once every now and then. The only teams (fans) protesting at the moment are the ones in Melbourne.

 

[Psi-Roos]

Your first line is so true for yourself and the "traditionalists" that want it to stay in Melbourne. Get out of your bubble. You're an out and out moron. I'd love the GF to be played in all the cities. It is you that is the whinger.

Be no different to the super bowl. Bid on and decided on years in advance. I think you can't fathom it leaving Melbourne once every now and then. The only teams (fans) protesting at the moment are the ones in Melbourne.

I couldn't be arsed where they hold it. As long as it's a cracking game. Also, I live in Perth. I get the joy of listening to Freo and WC supporters whinge about travel constantly, like they didn't choose to live in the most isolated city of the world.

You jump to many assumptions and fail to read peoples replies properly. It is a consistent trend you have set throughout the thread. Do you want a reasonable discussion on the matter or do you just want to continue to throw out crackpot ideas like poisoning Heritage Listed Moreton Bay Figs and building white elephants all over the country? The U.S can afford to do as it does with the Superbowl because it is a country of 300m+ with a huge amount of that being fans of the NFL with an exceptionally healthy college culture that we don't have. When WC and Freo are going poorly you can bet your money that the new stadium will only be 1/4 full. Then we will get to listen to all the Perthites moan about how we should have built another hospital.

The fact is, even with clauses and GF's held in rotating locations, that If there was a Derby GF not held in Perth, West Australians would be just as adamant about getting the game moved to Perth and this discussion will happen all over again. In fact every state would demand the same if it occurred. And rightly so.

For the record, I think Derby/Showdown/BridgeBattle GF's should be held in their home state. Until the AFL stops reserving 3/4 of the ground for corporates, there will be no fairness. Take some time to actually think of some realistic answers. Until then you are living in the clouds and nothing will change. Also, if you want constructive commentary maybe refrain from calling people morons.

 

[SgtSchulz]

When WC and Freo are going poorly you can bet your money that the new stadium will only be 1/4 full.

lol

 

[magpienato]

This is a project for decades down the track. With Australia's population at a mere 24 million their simply isn't enough people here to make it work. The reason why the NFL can do Super Bowls everywhere is because they have 320 million people, 10 time as much as us. Something like this is inevitable for a game like ours. And I don't think tradition matters here because in 91' they played it at Waverly Park. As said before money, as it always has been, is a problem. But look at the WA government, their election promise was to build Perth Stadium. They said it, they did it (or are doing it) and now they have a stadium that can virtually host a GF. That doesn't stop private companies from building their own stadiums. Say if Telstra or another big Aussie company wants to host a GF in its stadium with its name. This would be an All time win for the business. Notable examples of this are AT&T Stadium in the NFL which hosted Super Bowl 45 between two teams which were hundreds of kms away.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

This is a project for decades down the track. With Australia's population at a mere 24 million their simply isn't enough people here to make it work. The reason why the NFL can do Super Bowls everywhere is because they have 320 million people, 10 time as much as us. Something like this is inevitable for a game like ours. And I don't think tradition matters here because in 91' they played it at Waverly Park. As said before money, as it always has been, is a problem. But look at the WA government, their election promise was to build Perth Stadium. They said it, they did it (or are doing it) and now they have a stadium that can virtually host a GF. That doesn't stop private companies from building their own stadiums. Say if Telstra or another big Aussie company wants to host a GF in its stadium with its name. This would be an All time win for the business. Notable examples of this are AT&T Stadium in the NFL which hosted Super Bowl 45 between two teams which were hundreds of kms away.

Some sense and wisdom!

 

[The_Wookie]

This is a project for decades down the track. With Australia's population at a mere 24 million their simply isn't enough people here to make it work. The reason why the NFL can do Super Bowls everywhere is because they have 320 million people, 10 time as much as us. Something like this is inevitable for a game like ours. And I don't think tradition matters here because in 91' they played it at Waverly Park. As said before money, as it always has been, is a problem. But look at the WA government, their election promise was to build Perth Stadium. They said it, they did it (or are doing it) and now they have a stadium that can virtually host a GF. That doesn't stop private companies from building their own stadiums. Say if Telstra or another big Aussie company wants to host a GF in its stadium with its name. This would be an All time win for the business. Notable examples of this are AT&T Stadium in the NFL which hosted Super Bowl 45 between two teams which were hundreds of kms away.

'91 was at Waverly Park because half the MCG was under construction - The Great Southern Stand.