The Liberal Party - How long? - Part 2

[Gough]

I know that it's very popular to write off partys after huge election defeats like the one we've just seen in Victoria and the one is inevitably coming at federal level but there seems to be a real existential crisis within the Libs at the moment with both factions refusing to concede any ground in the fight for the soul of the Party. If this infighting can be only barely disguised in government heaven only knows what the dispiriting nature of facing a sizeable majority in opposition might bring out. There's a distinct possibility that the Coalition could fracture if the in fighting becomes such that the Nationals feel they're better off going it alone, or the far right of the Libs take control of the Party and they feel that being in coalition no longer represents the best interests of their voters. This would in itself leave the Libs with a sizeable problem retaining power in itself but also if the far right do gain control of the party it would seem that a split by moderates would be a real possibility and vice versa. Whatever happens the post election wash up in the Liberal Party will be fascinating, if they've learned from Labor and let's face it most of us thought they might have learned from R/G/R master class in how not to govern, but no, they will quietly regroup and focus on regaining government. I suspect egos may not allow this and we could see blood letting unseen in this country since the ALP split of 1955.

 

[E Shed]

They are going full bull goose loony. Don't worry about any policy, just wage endless culture war.

Conservative Liberals embrace at CPAC to celebrate the electoral defeat of ‘lefties’ within the party

Teena McQueen tells conference ‘the good thing about the federal election is a lot of those lefties are gone’ while Amanda Stoker asks conservatives to ‘speak up’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Crankyhawk]

They are going full bull goose loony. Don't worry about any policy, just wage endless culture war.

Conservative Liberals embrace at CPAC to celebrate the electoral defeat of ‘lefties’ within the party

Teena McQueen tells conference ‘the good thing about the federal election is a lot of those lefties are gone’ while Amanda Stoker asks conservatives to ‘speak up’

www.theguardian.com

The charitable interpretation is they are playing to the audience.
That might have worked in an era where these things aren’t broadcast via socials

 

[Gough]

They are going full bull goose loony. Don't worry about any policy, just wage endless culture war.

Conservative Liberals embrace at CPAC to celebrate the electoral defeat of ‘lefties’ within the party

Teena McQueen tells conference ‘the good thing about the federal election is a lot of those lefties are gone’ while Amanda Stoker asks conservatives to ‘speak up’

www.theguardian.com

Nobody from the pointy end of the Libs were there, and these guys don't even know what they want. It's Karenfest 2022.

 

[Gough]

When conservatives try to look smart.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Nobody from the pointy end of the Libs were there, and these guys don't even know what they want. It's Karenfest 2022.

Yep. Not grasping that they weren’t “silenced”. What has happened is that hardly anyone wants to buy what they’re selling.

 

[CD Xbow]

The charitable interpretation is they are playing to the audience.
That might have worked in an era where these things aren’t broadcast via socials

They do seem to be taking the wrong message from the election. If this is how the Libs respond to the trouncing, then they will spend a very long time in opposition. The Libs have been struggling for talent for a while, this however shows they have lost the struggle.

 

[Not Important]

it’s no surprise 2 anyone that mitchell is a died-in-the-wool liberal. right from his days as a murdoch man.

 

[winty]

Have to love this. Karen Andrews says here that she tried to introduce anti-ransomware legislation in February, but didn't have time to pass it before the Albanese Government was elected in May.



Only problem with that is she actually announced it in October last year!

Ministers for the of Home Affairs Website

Minister for Home Affairs, Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, Minister for Emergency Management.

minister.homeaffairs.gov.au

 

[QuietB]

it’s no surprise 2 anyone that mitchell is a died-in-the-wool liberal. right from his days as a murdoch man.

Is this the important work King Charles III has asked Dim Tim to do?

 

[QuietB]

They do seem to be taking the wrong message from the election. If this is how the Libs respond to the trouncing, then they will spend a very long time in opposition. The Libs have been struggling for talent for a while, this however shows they have lost the struggle.

Are they struggling for talent or are they out of ideas?

The talent reflects the ideas they have and those ideas have run their course. This article from The Saturday Paper is excellent;

Exclusive: IPA has lost all funding from ASX 100

Although it still enjoys support from the Murdoch family and Gina Rinehart, the Institute of Public Affairs has fallen to its lowest point in history.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

Supply side, trickle-down economics served to increase inequality. Deregulation of the labour market yielded flatlining wages. Privatisation all too often resulted in reduced services. The GFC showed clearly the perils of deregulating the finance sector and the Covid-19 pandemic demonstrated the necessity of competent, well-resourced government as well as the fragility of globalised supply chains.

That’s not to say any radical shift is imminent. But, Quiggin suggests, there is now an acknowledgement that the neoliberal economic experiment has gone as far as it can and further than it should have, and is in the process of being moderated.

Roskam is of much the same view, although he is far less happy about it.

So, if the neoliberal experiment is exhausted, what is the point of the Liberal Party? This is how we end up at "African gangs".

 

[Crankyhawk]

Have to love this. Karen Andrews says here that she tried to introduce anti-ransomware legislation in February, but didn't have time to pass it before the Albanese Government was elected in May.



Only problem with that is she actually announced it in October last year!

View attachment 1524863

Ministers for the of Home Affairs Website

Minister for Home Affairs, Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, Minister for Emergency Management.

minister.homeaffairs.gov.au

To be extremely charitable perhaps all legislation was kind of held up by the religious freedumb bill (because the scomo government only capable of one legislative item at a time - function of only having one minister really)..

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Are they struggling for talent or are they out of ideas?

The talent reflects the ideas they have and those ideas have run their course. This article from The Saturday Paper is excellent;

Exclusive: IPA has lost all funding from ASX 100

Although it still enjoys support from the Murdoch family and Gina Rinehart, the Institute of Public Affairs has fallen to its lowest point in history.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

Supply side, trickle-down economics served to increase inequality. Deregulation of the labour market yielded flatlining wages. Privatisation all too often resulted in reduced services. The GFC showed clearly the perils of deregulating the finance sector and the Covid-19 pandemic demonstrated the necessity of competent, well-resourced government as well as the fragility of globalised supply chains.

That’s not to say any radical shift is imminent. But, Quiggin suggests, there is now an acknowledgement that the neoliberal economic experiment has gone as far as it can and further than it should have, and is in the process of being moderated.

Roskam is of much the same view, although he is far less happy about it.

So, if the neoliberal experiment is exhausted, what is the point of the Liberal Party? This is how we end up at "African gangs".

Yes, that article was the best news I've heard since the May election. IPA and their pestilential meddling can eff right off and it sounds like that's exactly what they're doing.

 

[winty]

To be extremely charitable perhaps all legislation was kind of held up by the religious freedumb bill (because the scomo government only capable of one legislative item at a time - function of only having one minister really)..

Either that or it was like ScoMo's ICAC bill that he always waved around saying Labor was scared of it, but whenever they asked to debate it, they stifled it.

 

[Schneebly11]

The charitable interpretation is they are playing to the audience.
That might have worked in an era where these things aren’t broadcast via socials

Have you seen pictures of the crowd though?

CPAC apparently sold less than 1000 tickets, and the pictures of the crowd I'd estimate at no more than 500-600.

This for an event with a former PM (Abbott), the current darling of the right (Price) and guy who delivered Brexit (Farage). So a very poor showing, basically the local Sky News viewership.

Be careful this "conference" isn't given more prominence than it deserves.

 

[E Shed]

Are they struggling for talent or are they out of ideas?

The talent reflects the ideas they have and those ideas have run their course. This article from The Saturday Paper is excellent;

Exclusive: IPA has lost all funding from ASX 100

Although it still enjoys support from the Murdoch family and Gina Rinehart, the Institute of Public Affairs has fallen to its lowest point in history.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

Supply side, trickle-down economics served to increase inequality. Deregulation of the labour market yielded flatlining wages. Privatisation all too often resulted in reduced services. The GFC showed clearly the perils of deregulating the finance sector and the Covid-19 pandemic demonstrated the necessity of competent, well-resourced government as well as the fragility of globalised supply chains.

That’s not to say any radical shift is imminent. But, Quiggin suggests, there is now an acknowledgement that the neoliberal economic experiment has gone as far as it can and further than it should have, and is in the process of being moderated.

Roskam is of much the same view, although he is far less happy about it.
y
So, if the neoliberal experiment is exhausted, what is the point of the Liberal Party? This is how we end up at "African gangs".

If the Libs went back to what they used to do - listen to experts, evidence based policy and made decisions based on sound economic principles etc, I mean they must have done that at some point, all Governments used to, they all had their particular biases but generally decisions were made based on the best evidence and information available at the time.

Todays libs, like the GOP in the US and the Tories in the UK ignore all that & simply wage endless culture war to attract the votes of of the perennially stupid and angry. There parties have been hijacked by a combination of religious nutters obsessed with creating Christian sharia law and grifters who will say and do anything to get their hands on keys to the treasury.

I am very grateful that in Australia the sensible centre seems to actually be sensible enough to elect enough Teals, Greens etc to get the lunatic fringe like Scomo and co out of power and to put enough pressure on Labor to govern like a centre left party should rather than do the bidding of big business exclusively.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

If the Libs went back to what they used to do - listen to experts, evidence based policy and made decisions based on sound economic principles etc, I mean they must have done that at some point, all Governments used to, they all had their particular biases but generally decisions were made based on the best evidence and information available at the time.

Todays libs, like the GOP in the US and the Tories in the UK ignore all that & simply wage endless culture war to attract the votes of of the perennially stupid and angry. There parties have been hijacked by a combination of religious nutters obsessed with creating Christian sharia law and grifters who will say and do anything to get their hands on keys to the treasury.

I am very grateful that in Australia the sensible centre seems to actually be sensible enough to elect enough Teals, Greens etc to get the lunatic fringe like Scomo and co out of power and to put enough pressure on Labor to govern like a centre left party should rather than do the bidding of big business exclusively.

Good post.

 

[Gethelred]

If the Libs went back to what they used to do - listen to experts, evidence based policy and made decisions based on sound economic principles etc, I mean they must have done that at some point, all Governments used to, they all had their particular biases but generally decisions were made based on the best evidence and information available at the time.

Todays libs, like the GOP in the US and the Tories in the UK ignore all that & simply wage endless culture war to attract the votes of of the perennially stupid and angry. There parties have been hijacked by a combination of religious nutters obsessed with creating Christian sharia law and grifters who will say and do anything to get their hands on keys to the treasury.

I am very grateful that in Australia the sensible centre seems to actually be sensible enough to elect enough Teals, Greens etc to get the lunatic fringe like Scomo and co out of power and to put enough pressure on Labor to govern like a centre left party should rather than do the bidding of big business exclusively.

I object to the notion that it's the 'sensible centre' doing anything. You're referring, with that statement, to the same people who Morrison called his 'Quiet Australians'; they voted him in the first time.

I rather think you're giving them entirely too much credit.

 

[CakeEater]

I object to the notion that it's the 'sensible centre' doing anything. You're referring, with that statement, to the same people who Morrison called his 'Quiet Australians'; they voted him in the first time.

I rather think you're giving them entirely too much credit.

Tbf with Compulsory voting the centre is where elections are won and lost

Theres a reason why both the Libs and the Greens are on 10% primary vote representing the right and left wings

 

[Crankyhawk]

I object to the notion that it's the 'sensible centre' doing anything. You're referring, with that statement, to the same people who Morrison called his 'Quiet Australians'; they voted him in the first time.

I rather think you're giving them entirely too much credit.

no. sensible centre is where people like me are
the "quiet australians" are those who are disengaged with politics who vote for status quo because "scomo seems nice and is a daggy dad"

 

[QuietB]

If the Libs went back to what they used to do - listen to experts, evidence based policy and made decisions based on sound economic principles etc, I mean they must have done that at some point, all Governments used to, they all had their particular biases but generally decisions were made based on the best evidence and information available at the time.

Todays libs, like the GOP in the US and the Tories in the UK ignore all that & simply wage endless culture war to attract the votes of of the perennially stupid and angry. There parties have been hijacked by a combination of religious nutters obsessed with creating Christian sharia law and grifters who will say and do anything to get their hands on keys to the treasury.

I am very grateful that in Australia the sensible centre seems to actually be sensible enough to elect enough Teals, Greens etc to get the lunatic fringe like Scomo and co out of power and to put enough pressure on Labor to govern like a centre left party should rather than do the bidding of big business exclusively.

Good post, but when did the libs listen to experts?

Labor implemented the neoliberal agenda in Australia.

The Liberals are literally responsible for nothing of any note in this country when it comes to reform except the GST.

 

[Mailfaming]

If the Libs went back to what they used to do - listen to experts, evidence based policy and made decisions based on sound economic principles etc, I mean they must have done that at some point, all Governments used to, they all had their particular biases but generally decisions were made based on the best evidence and information available at the time.

Todays libs, like the GOP in the US and the Tories in the UK ignore all that & simply wage endless culture war to attract the votes of of the perennially stupid and angry. There parties have been hijacked by a combination of religious nutters obsessed with creating Christian sharia law and grifters who will say and do anything to get their hands on keys to the treasury.

I am very grateful that in Australia the sensible centre seems to actually be sensible enough to elect enough Teals, Greens etc to get the lunatic fringe like Scomo and co out of power and to put enough pressure on Labor to govern like a centre left party should rather than do the bidding of big business exclusively.

Teals winning was the biggest surprise. My impression of the typical Aussie is they don't care to talk about politics and so I figured they'd fall in line with the two major parties as usual. If Australia can actually maintain a strong independent presence and refusal of the two majors that would be remarkable and buck the trend of the far-right taking over in recent elections in other parts of the world, like the EU and US.

 

[Gethelred]

no. sensible centre is where people like me are
the "quiet australians" are those who are disengaged with politics who vote for status quo because "scomo seems nice and is a daggy dad"

The term 'sensible centre' is utter tosh. It's spin, designed to attract people away from actually possessing ideals. 'Quiet Australians' is equally a spin based term, designed to appeal to the exact same group.

If you object to this, perhaps have a good look at why you don't mind one label but reject the other.

 

[Crankyhawk]

The term 'sensible centre' is utter tosh. It's spin, designed to attract people away from actually possessing ideals. 'Quiet Australians' is equally a spin based term, designed to appeal to the exact same group.

If you object to this, perhaps have a good look at why you don't mind one label but reject the other.

I think your view on it is tosh. I see there are clowns to both the left and right of me on this board which puts me in the centre. Now I’m fully aware of the contempt you have for the centre - previously you have called it the same as being an lnp voter or being right wing. That just means you are somewhere to the left of me, nothing more.

Edit and I believe in results and process not airy fairy “ideals”

 

[Gethelred]

I think your view on it is tosh.

Disagreement is the lifeblood of democracy, which is why the idea of a 'sensible centre' is tosh.

People endlessly agreeing with each other is an echo chamber.

I see there are clowns to both the left and right of me on this board which puts me in the centre. Now I’m fully aware of the contempt you have for the centre - previously you have called it the same as being an lnp voter or being right wing.

Never said that at all. My contempt is for the term, not the people.

You're all better than the label, 'centrist'. To be a centrist is to be a fence sitter in all things; it's to ignore ideals in favour of ease. It's to ignore the reality that every single policy exists on a spectrum between two points, and where it sits on that spectrum is always closer to one side or the other.

You've misunderstood, or I've explained it poorly.

That just means you are somewhere to the left of me, nothing more.

Nope. There's no gentle agree to disagree difference of opinion here; either you're wrong or I am.

And I don't think I am, Cranky.

Edit and I believe in results and process not airy fairy “ideals”

Results are the result of ideals. Otherwise, how do you get to the point of knowing which results are better or worse?

The worst that I'll say of you is that you're short sighted, because that is what it means to be process focussed.