Autopsy The Luke Beveridges coaching idiocy throws away the game thread.

[CarnTheScray]

If by bold you mean incredibly stupid, then yes, I agree completely.

Correction: it is not the only reason we lost last night. Even then, did you not notice the sheer amount of times Rhys Stanley was getting clean hitouts to advantage with Dunkley as his opposing ruck? Stanley isn't even a good player.

Also, as a St. Kilda fan pointed out earlier in this thread, Dunkley had 7 disposals in the first quarter, then 6 for the rest of the game. It's bad enough to play an undersized ruckman, but Beveridge in all his wisdom is pissing away the talents of one of the best inside mids in the comp. Dunkley was top 10 in the coaches votes last year as a midfielder, yet our imbecile of a coach insists on making him our #1 ruck.


The effort was there.
The talent was there.
The coach is a moron.

The effort wasn't there either. Some just gave up as soon as Geelong challenged (as usual) and it is always the same culprits.

 

[Hobdog]

Dickson is not to blame last night. Hasn't played for over a ******* YEAR and they decide to bring him in for the most important game of the season. The coaching panel and the MC should all be fired, lined up against a wall and shot.

Seems drastic


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[Bazzas Lovechild]

Mistakes were made all over the ground. JJ, Macrae, Bruce, Bont all had crucial mistakes as well as others I'm forgetting.
Picking Dickson was a mistake in hindsight, looks cooked.
A key runner and link up guy who is massively important to our gameplan was out halfway through the 1st quarter.
Losing Wood later on meant we had no legs in the 2nd half.
Should have played Bruce in the ruck more, the only really baffling tactical decision.
Geelong's players had an average of 47 more games played than us. That's more than 2 seasons worth of experience. Massive. Also they had an average age of more than 2 years on us. Apart from Trengove and Lloyd, we couldn't have put a more experienced team out there and those 2 guys aren't changing anything for us anyway.

Despite all that we almost beat the in-form team of the comp, who are 2nd premiership favourites.

I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making out. I really think if VDM doesn't pop his hammy we win that game.

Still a good chance to make finals, I think we can beat WC at Metricon and should beat Freo and Hawks.

Could be wrong but I don’t think we have won in Perth since 2016. What makes everyone so certain we will beat Freo? I think we will beat Hawthorn and that’s it. West Coast will absolutely smash us in the ruck and beat us in a canter.

 

[dogwatch]

We were being outplayed and overrun 5 minutes into the second qtr. That had nothing to do with injuries!

That may be true - maybe even for the entire quarter - but the whole game didn't play out like that quarter. We steadied. We made an effort and looked like we had even established a big enough lead, but late in the game, down two rotations including one of our best runners, we just couldn't counterattack or defend as easily.

Of course it had an impact.

I get what you're saying - and agree - that we shouldn't just blame the injuries but the reality is they happened and they hurt. Would you agree beforehand to playing half to 3/4 of a game with just 20 players to the opposition's 22? Of course not. Nobody would. We know it's a significant disadvantage.

Geelong's Tuohy also battled it out to the finish with multiple battle injuries so it wasn't all one way, but it would be against all AFL experience and common sense to say that the loss of two average to good players for at least half the match would have no impact.

 

[Mattdougie]

Guess that’s why he’s universally loved amongst the players, media personalities & coaches alike.

But nah, I’ll take the poster on big Footy’s opinion who’s never met him. Big Lol.

Loved by all they players?? Yeah nah that is not true. They respect his ability but he is not popular with the entire AFL.

No one suggests he isn’t a good player but He is an arrogant twat

 

[Mattdougie]

Wuold have liked to pull last night out of our arses to give us some breathing space on the ladder

Do we really want to scrape into finals again and get smashed?

Wont that appear over the obvious issue.

I’d prefer to lose the last 3 and miss finals so changes are driven to happen.

 

[NBates]

JJ is still living off his Robert Klomp moment from the GF and has been well below average since then, he's a liability in the backline if we are playing good teams as he avoids any pressure moments but some how manages to keep his spot because someone in the selection committee loves him.

JJs pace is unbelievable still, but his decision making and skills let him down. I'm p'd with him but if he's offloaded I dread to think of the damage he could do in the right team with some harsher coaches.

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[GetDimmaBack]

Dickson is not to blame last night. Hasn't played for over a ******* YEAR and they decide to bring him in for the most important game of the season. The coaching panel and the MC should all be fired, lined up against a wall and shot.

Now that's a sacking

 

[dogwatch]

Honestly, if they hadn't kneejerked with taking away 3rd man up, it may have gone like that. Bev had threatened the future of the ruck by using Roughie and 3rd man up like he did. Rough wasn't really a ruck and his duties were more intercept marking, running the ground and being a big body to help make life tougher for opposing rucks rather than ever hoping to actually beat them in the hitouts. Then his use of third man up was crucial in opening the game up in our favour (and yet the AFL takes it away then worries about congestion?).

So I do feel for Bev, it was a really brilliant vision he had, and because we won a flag with it and threatened to make traditional rucks irrelevant they took it away. Drafting Tim was a smart move considering that. But it's becoming clearer and clearer we should have invested in a mature ruck and either let Tim earn it in the VFL or have him develop as a forward/ruck then eventually move to full time ruck. And now the question becomes whether we still need to do so and if Tim matches the timeline of our other players. He's shown enough this season to prove that he's a talent, but it doesn't look like he's at all ready to replicate that nearly enough. But no matter what we're stuck between playing a cooked English, a "not AFL ready" Sweet, or Trengove, who isn't even a ruck. Or, apparently, Dunkley.

At this point I'd be really curious to see how we look with English and Naughton up forward with Sweet or Trengove as the main ruck and Tim providing chopouts. Small sample size but it's looked ok with Bruce in the ruck, and he's generally pretty useless up there. Trengove or Sweet would have to be better. Don't think we'll see it though.

Agree with this. Hardly any current rucks were drafted in the top 20. Kreuzer (1) and Nicnat (pick 2 I think) are the most obvious exceptions but they were a decade or so ago. Both English and Grundy were drafted in the late teens. Gawn at 34. Goldstein at 37. Nankervis 35. Mumford 57. Stanley 47. So it's not too hard to find a competent one for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. The trouble is you have to wait for them to mature, or as Hawthorn usually does, just trade for one when you need it.

It all points to a flaw in list management which (I'm guessing) would derive from Bevo's credo of rucks being unimportant and a waste of a spot. So it's hard to blame Sam Power or Dalrymple.

Sweet is starting to look more like he was a break-glass insurance policy than a genuine long term list prospect. I hope that's not true but the signs aren't great. No idea what the plan was for Trengove but it hasn't turned out well. Clearly not rated as a ruckman by Bevo.

 

[Libba39]

That may be true - maybe even for the entire quarter - but the whole game didn't play out like that quarter. We steadied. We made an effort and looked like we had even established a big enough lead, but late in the game, down two rotations including one of our best runners, we just couldn't counterattack or defend as easily.

Of course it had an impact.

I get what you're saying - and agree - that we shouldn't just blame the injuries but the reality is they happened and they hurt. Would you agree beforehand to playing half to 3/4 of a game with just 20 players to the opposition's 22? Of course not. Nobody would. We know it's a significant disadvantage.

Geelong's Tuohy also battled it out to the finish with multiple battle injuries so it wasn't all one way, but it would be against all AFL experience and common sense to say that the loss of two average to good players for at least half the match would have no impact.

I would hardly call 1 goal in two quarters of football "steadied".

We may have actually won the game if we'd had a full side on the park, but Geelong were the much better team for three quarters.

 

[XQC08]

So I do feel for Bev, it was a really brilliant vision he had, and because we won a flag with it and threatened to make traditional rucks irrelevant they took it away. Drafting Tim was a smart move considering that. But it's becoming clearer and clearer we should have invested in a mature ruck and either let Tim earn it in the VFL or have him develop as a forward/ruck then eventually move to full time ruck. And now the question becomes whether we still need to do so and if Tim matches the timeline of our other players. He's shown enough this season to prove that he's a talent, but it doesn't look like he's at all ready to replicate that nearly enough. But no matter what we're stuck between playing a cooked English, a "not AFL ready" Sweet, or Trengove, who isn't even a ruck. Or, apparently, Dunkley.

and what? Not play said mature ruck?

It's been said multiple times already, but Beveridge dropped All-Australian ruckman Will Minson in favor of Ayce Cordy back in 2015. Will Minson was the best ruckman on our list by a mile that year, but Beveridge didn't like him because he was slow, just like he doesn't like Trengove now because he's slow. Never mind the fact that speed has never been a mandatory attribute for a ruckman, or that every single Premiership-winning team from the last 10 years had a slow ruckman, Beveridge just doesn't like them. You'd think he would've learned a thing or two at the Hawks with Ben McEvoy, but no, he'd still rather play Dunkley as the #1 ruck over an actual ruckman.

The ruck rules changed 4 years ago, and he still refuses to adapt, he still refuses to compromise on his philosophies. Kane Cornes criticizing him mid-week probably only hardened his resolve to play Dunkley as a ruckman. This is why he's the worst coach in the AFL.

 

[Mattdougie]

Bonts problem is his hair according to some

 

[Brassrazoo]

Beveridge owns that one.
BTW. Bruce is the worst forward recruit since Allen Jakovich.

Or Jade Rawlings?!

 

[Glaeken Oracle]

Gotta laugh at several posters consistently calling JJ soft, and implying he’s gutless and a coward. Ironic on a forum where no one uses their real name (apart from my good self of course). AFL footy and it’s degree of scrutiny is relentless. Also maybe people should watch a game from contest to contest. Same with Schache - he’s not the most physical player I’ve seen, but he ain’t no coward.

 

[NBates]

Bonts problem is his hair according to some

Please explain?

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[Brassrazoo]

Pretty simple I would've thought.

1. Having just two on the bench for a half (54 minutes) clearly took its toll. It felt like us against Collingwood in R10,2016 but this time it wasn't in our favour.
2. Can't win games after having an excellent start and then have a goalless quarter.
3. Why was Cavarra dropped?
4. Where is Cordy?
5. How about sticking some tackles?

Now here is the usual...

Ruck Contests (Hitouts/To Advantage)
43 - English (10/1)
26 - Dunkley (3/1)
5 - Macrae (0/0)
5 - Bruce (0/0)
1 - Bontempelli (0/0)

WB: 80 (13/2)
GE: 80 (49/12)

Tackle Efficiency
WB: 49%
GE: 63%

Turnovers Punished By Goal
2 - Johannisen
1 - Hunter, Macrae, McLean

Shots At Goal
WB: 16 (56%)
GE: 20 (50%)

Targets Inside 50
9 - Bruce
6 - English
4 - Wallis, Naughton
2 - Bontempelli
1 - Hunter

WB Kicks Inside 50
View attachment 947787

Pressure Guage
WB: 196 (Above Average)
GE: 187 (Average)

After Q1 (WB/GE)
First Possession - 21/36
Inside 50s - 21/34
Shots - 7/18
Turnovers Punished By Goal - 5/0

Score Sources
View attachment 947745

Those on Gardner watch here are his matchups...

View attachment 947768

Those ruck stats are simply damning!

 

[CarnTheScray]

Seems drastic


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Drastic but necessary.

 

[dogwatch]

I would hardly call 1 goal in two quarters of football "steadied".

We may have actually won the game if we'd had a full side on the park, but Geelong were the much better team for three quarters.

I'm not debating Geelong were the better side for three quarters. That doesn't mean we should have lost though and I think you're agreeing with that. We totally trounced Geelong in the first quarter - it should have been a match winning lead and we only conceded it with less than 5 minutes to go.

Not having a go at you personally. That view has been expressed by several people, so my comment is more of a general counter-view.

Like any awful loss there are always LOTS of things going wrong that need to be analysed and this thread has covered them pretty well. I just don't accept that losing two players for at least half the game has no impact.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Do we really want to scrape into finals again and get smashed?

Wont that appear over the obvious issue.

I’d prefer to lose the last 3 and miss finals so changes are driven to happen.

The problem is even if that happens nothing probably changes. Didn’t change in 17 or 18 after disappointing seasons

 

[hutchy31]

Gotta laugh at several posters consistently calling JJ soft, and implying he’s gutless and a coward. Ironic on a forum where no one uses their real name (apart from my good self of course). AFL footy and it’s degree of scrutiny is relentless. Also maybe people should watch a game from contest to contest. Same with Schache - he’s not the most physical player I’ve seen, but he ain’t no coward.

I don’t think JJ is soft, but he cost us the Port game with two shocking turnovers and if he kicks a simple set shot last night I think we’d have been out of sight. Cats go down the field and kick one for the 11 point turnaround.

He’d get a game for Adelaide and North right now and that’s about it.

 

[hutchy31]

Nearly 24 hours after and I’m still in a rage, which is pretty unusual. I notice a few other posters saying something similar.

If the same ruck approach is taken against WC and Gardner and/or Gowers are selected then I’m probably done for the year. I feel like this is the supporter equivalent of being gaslighted.

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Targets Inside 50
9 - Bruce
6 - English
4 - Wallis, Naughton
2 - Bontempelli
1 - Hunter

Kicking it to Bruce more times that we did to Naughton and Wallis combined is by far the worst decision we made all night. Worse than any ruck or turnover or defensive matchup in my eyes. Naughton was red hot in that first quarter and we only kick it to him 4 times?! That is poor by the players for not having any feel for the game, and worse by the coaches but not trying to instruct a change. Wallis was well covered but if you kick it to him 9 (9?!) times he'll win more than Bruce did, and he'll make them count more. Back in your in form players to win a 50/50, stop trying to be cute and kick it to a worse players advantage. I'm not even going to mention English being targetted 6 times. Terrible, terrible decisions that have cost us the win.

 

[NBates]

Nearly 24 hours after and I’m still in a rage, which is pretty unusual. I notice a few other posters saying something similar.

If the same ruck approach is taken against WC and Gardner and/or Gowers are selected then I’m probably done for the year. I feel like this is the supporter equivalent of being gaslighted.

Not in a rage. Just totally dejected and it's like... where to from here? I don't want them to play finals and get smacked again. Messes with your head. St Kilda GF losses like.

Poor Bont. He looked like I feel in the bulldog webpage (I think it was) video they posted. I didn't listen. To see the look on his face was enough.

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[CarnTheScray]

Nearly 24 hours after and I’m still in a rage, which is pretty unusual. I notice a few other posters saying something similar.

If the same ruck approach is taken against WC and Gardner and/or Gowers are selected then I’m probably done for the year. I feel like this is the supporter equivalent of being gaslighted.

I probably won't watch the next game even if we are thrashing them. Last night was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Yojimbo]

Kicking it to Bruce more times that we did to Naughton and Wallis combined is by far the worst decision we made all night. Worse than any ruck or turnover or defensive matchup in my eyes. Naughton was red hot in that first quarter and we only kick it to him 4 times?! That is poor by the players for not having any feel for the game, and worse by the coaches but not trying to instruct a change. Wallis was well covered but if you kick it to him 9 (9?!) times he'll win more than Bruce did, and he'll make them count more. Back in your in form players to win a 50/50, stop trying to be cute and kick it to a worse players advantage. I'm not even going to mention English being targetted 6 times. Terrible, terrible decisions that have cost us the win.

Don't you think Naughton looked like he was instructed to drag his opponent out of the defensive fifty at times last night. Geelong
block up the toilet most of our early goals resulted from them defending too deep. Caleb Daniel went from setting up goals early
to taking kick outs very quickly. Match up our scoring shots per quarter to the metres gained and that tells part of the story it
went 9, 3, 2, and 2. The Vandermeer out was crucial and Rohan looked like Ablett senior after Wood exited.