Autopsy The Luke Beveridges coaching idiocy throws away the game thread.

[ScragCity]

Except it doesn't appear to have panned out like that. Dunkley contributed very little as a midfielder after QT. I think someone else posted the stats - but you could see that without needing the stats.

It also doesn't explain why the other (admittedly limited) options aren't tried/persisted with, such as Young, Bruce, Schache. All can play other roles when not helping out in the ruck.

I haven't seen enough of Sweet but if he's an unplayable plodder why keep him on the list? Trengove maybe is a plodder too but as a 60% KPP and a 40% chop out for English thus releasing Dunkley to actually have a positive midfield impact it still makes a lot more sense than what we saw last night. I see you have no time for Trengove as a KPP either but he's not the only option other than Dunkley.

And as you say, it's an indictment on our list management ...

You're right, it does seem to have had a significant negative impact on Dunkley's output. I'm not going to argue that it's a good strategy or that it's working. It's clearly not. Just pointing out that I think the logic behind it is reasonably sound and I don't think that Bruce in the ruck would be better. I definitely don't think bringing in a plodder like Trengove would be better. It's a strategy which I think is marginally better than the shitty alternatives. However the best strategy would be to have a competent ruck which the other 17 teams seem to have figured out.

 

[dogwatch]

At what percentage of ‘control’ do opposition rucks try volleying the ball straight out of the air like Hawkins did last night? Or having the confidence to take possession of the footy knowing that they have dispatched their opponent to the ground while the ball was in the air.

There’s lots of factors that influence a game but one of the biggest and hardest to conjure is confidence. I think accepting defeat in every ruck contest is fundamentally flawed as it breeds confidence in our opposition that they are ALWAYS going to get the first look at the footy.

Yep and now Bevo has stated it publicly.
At least before last night some people thought he was inscrutable, a mercurial genius. Now they all know he simply has no other options.

Wish he was bluffing them but we can all see the cards he's holding.

 

[_Mike_]

Just out of interest is there anyone who contributes regularly to this board who understands and agrees with Bevo's ruck strategy?

I thought I did, but that changed weeks ago when I noticed English was spent within the first quarter of his game against the GCS. I dont know what he's trying to accomplish, nor do I agree with the philosophy that it will sort itself out.

 

[Yojimbo]

This means that against Caleb Daniel a ruckman will have complete control as opposed to against Tim English let's say he would have about 60% control.

Caleb Daniel as a ruck could redefine his ball use, Terry Wheeler style 100% control and lots of tears.

 

[weltschmerz]

Caleb Daniel as a ruck could redefine his ball use, Terry Wheeler style 100% control and lots of tears.

Caleb Daniel on Ben Cavarra's shoulders wearing a trenchcoat.

 

[hutchy31]

Our team dosnt play a brand of footy that win finals.
We need a reset at years end.

This is an excellent point. Not sure our current game plan (and approach to team selection) wins any final let alone three or four.

It’s stunning that a premiership coach thinks how we’re approaching the game has a chance of being consistently successful.

 

[Yojimbo]

Caleb Daniel on Ben Cavarra's shoulders wearing a trenchcoat.

I think i have seen that movie, twice.

 

[hutchy31]

We've been smashed in the ruck all year and sit 7-7. It's definitely not a precursor to us winning or losing.
Our effort and execution is the main factor. Against a side like Geelong you can't have your execution off by very much or you'll lose.

I’m not sure that’s the right way to look at it. If we played a proper ruck are we still 7-7? Maybe we’re 8-6 or 9-5?

If team selection is just competent do we win an extra game somewhere? I’d argue that we at least win the Port game and last night.

 

[ScragCity]

At what percentage of ‘control’ do opposition rucks try volleying the ball straight out of the air like Hawkins did last night? Or having the confidence to take possession of the footy knowing that they have dispatched their opponent to the ground while the ball was in the air.

There’s lots of factors that influence a game but one of the biggest and hardest to conjure is confidence. I think accepting defeat in every ruck contest is fundamentally flawed as it breeds confidence in our opposition that they are ALWAYS going to get the first look at the footy.

I don't recall seeing Hawkins take the ball out of the air in the ruck last night but I have seen him do it to plenty of other sides this year. He's an absolute unit of a man and there's not a player on our list who could match his strength. The only time I remember a Geelong ruck taking the ball out of the air last night was Blicavs and he immediately got done HTB.

I agree that intangibles like confidence are important. I think it's a big part of why English in the ruck hurts us so much. The way he gets manhandled gives our opponents a lot of confidence while sapping ours. I just don't see any viable alternative right now. There's no player on our list capable of inspiring our mids with some physical presence. Trengove is the closest to that but he kills our confidence in his own ways.

 

[BEaston]

I’m not sure that’s the right way to look at it. If we played a proper ruck are we still 7-7? Maybe we’re 8-6 or 9-5?

If team selection is just competent do we win an extra game somewhere? I’d argue that we at least win the Port game and last night.

Yes. I was only responding to the logic of; we'll get smashed in the ruck and therefore lose.

Impossible to tell either way. In any case English is the closest thing to a proper ruck we have on our list.

 

[josh the gent]

Yep and now Bevo has stated it publicly.
At least before last night some people thought he was inscrutable, a mercurial genius. Now they all know he simply has no other options.

Wish he was bluffing them but we can all see the cards he's holding.

View attachment 948485

Your posts are legendary dogwatch

But on this occasion it is wrong. That 7 in the hand is actually a 6....... it’s just that Bevo doesn’t know how to play it.

We don’t even try Sweet, and, in the 6 years in charge he’s not been able to acquire a ruck that can get it done.

#Bevoout

 

[Mattdougie]

There is no sane justification for Bevs complete surrendering of the ruck.

The worst case scenario is you put someone like Sweet in and just tell him to crash bodies and make a presence THATS WORST CASE. Even in park footy you do everything you can to stop the oppo ruck Dominating

He has just told every other club in the league we aren’t even trying to win tap outs and will just play the plus one. So not only has he conceding but he has told everyone so they can plan for it.

I actually hope Nic Nat makes absolute fools of us next week so the heat comes on from all directions.

Our mids have shown what they can do if we can half the contest.

it’s amateur coaching at best and admitting it makes it even worse

 

[Proffessor]

I'm as frustrated with last night's loss as most, but think some people are getting a bit carried away with the doom and gloom

"Things are never as bad or as good as they might seem" is one of my favourite truisms. Last night was a great illustration of this principle.

There are plenty of things going right for us as well as a few areas that are not. However, the beauty of the areas that aren't going well, is that they are reasonably obvious, and we have some actions available to adjust most of these areas. This is much better than not having a clue where to start fixing our problems.

Sure our coaching group haven't got a great record of adjusting their approach but there is still plenty of room to maintain some optimism.
Who knows a kick in the pants like last night might just be an important wake up call.

Go Dogs.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Has their been examples of players like English (Skinny and thrown around but skilled) eating shit for a few seasons and then coming good in the ruck? I can’t think of any. He needs another 10kg of muscle to stand his ground

Bevo’s plan is English to come good quickly

 

[Syrah]

Has their been examples of players like English (Skinny and thrown around but skilled) eating sh*t for a few seasons and then coming good in the ruck? I can’t think of any. He needs another 10kg of muscle to stand his ground

Bevo’s plan is English to come good quickly

The problem is that he doesn’t like physical contact and it’s not like he a 18 yo rookie- he’s 23 now so doubt he’ll make it as a ruckman.

 

[DelRe]

The frustrating thing about the ruck situation for me is that it seems to contradict Bevo’s own versatility mantra.

English and Naughton are highly versatile - English in the ruck obviously, but his height is enough as a deep FF to make defenders nervous and I’d say he could play a fill the hole Scott Wynd type role if the situation called for it. Naughton seems as effective as a crash the pack leading full forward as he is a leading CHF to the wing like Matthew Richardson and clearly is effective as a mobile intercept CHB.

If the mantra is to leverage (or beverage) that versatility to the maximum then you need the best complement for it - ie another at least ‘solid’ tall player - not Dunkley - that fills the gap they may leave in the ruck or the forward or backline as they rotate around. To me the answer to that is Cordy, Schache or Young in that order. Controversial on this board but I think Bruce is a little maligned and I’m assuming he’d be the other tall.

Cordy for periods can hold CHB (particularly in the defensive 6 ‘system’), defensive forward and to hit the body of ruckman. Schache I think can take a forward or ruck role. Young potentially forward or back but the main point is they all have the versatility to complement English/Naughton.

Cutting to the chase for selection - switch Gardner out for one of the above.

Cutting to the chase for lost management - agree with others, how does Trengove or Sweet fit in that picture? Trengove’s value diminished rapidly with Bev’s disdain for the ruck and the arrival of Keath and unless Sweet has more strings to his bow than a big ruck, he’s at the wrong club sadly for him.

 

[PuzzledfromParkville]

We didn’t lose last night in the ruck.

Geelong got better at defending Our run and we took less risks.

We missed the run of our 2nd best wingman.
Then our most experienced defender was injured. We likely win if one stays fit. Definitely if both do.

Gawn has been in the best 5 ruckman of the comp for the last 5 years and played 3 finals.

In that time we have won a flag with Roughead as our ruckman.

 

[ossie_21]

My biggest issue with the ruck is that we are almost wasting a great midfield. It’s almost a crime we still manage to win clearances v the opposition most of the time despite being obliterated in the hit outs.

Work with me here....imagine if our mids regularly got first use like Naitanui to Shuey/Yeo, Grundy to Pendlebury/Treloar...

 

[DelRe]

We didn’t lose last night in the ruck.

Geelong got better at defending Our run and we took less risks.

We missed the run of our 2nd best wingman.
Then our most experienced defender was injured. We likely win if one stays fit. Definitely if both do.

Gawn has been in the best 5 ruckman of the comp for the last 5 years and played 3 finals.

In that time we have won a flag with Roughead as our ruckman.

I agree with your point about taking less risks and slowing down. The point I was getting at about the ruck was the flow on consequences from lack of complementary players. I don’t like to keep singling out Gardner but he is one dimensional. Taking your example, Cordy is more adaptable to Woods role and could alternate with Bruce in the ruck still keeping English free forward and Dunkley as a midfielder - Naughton could rotate back as needed. I can’t see Gardner doing that. It’s not a perfect answer but no team is 22 stars it’s finding the best balance and I’m not sure that playing an average CHB who can’t do much else and playing a midfielder in ruck is the right answer.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Don’t understand this hatred and meltdown over the loss.

from a geelong perspective it was a very tough hard fought intense game.

you guys played amazing physical footy. Play like that every week and you will beat most sides in the AFL including west coast imo.

nothing but respect and one of the years most intense games. The bulldogs didn’t lose any friends the other night

 

[Doggy]

Don’t understand this hatred and meltdown over the loss.

from a geelong perspective it was a very tough hard fought intense game.

you guys played amazing physical footy. Play like that every week and you will beat most sides in the AFL including west coast imo.

nothing but respect and one of the years most intense games. The bulldogs didn’t lose any friends the other night

Quite simply, should not have lost

 

[ScragCity]

Don’t understand this hatred and meltdown over the loss.

from a geelong perspective it was a very tough hard fought intense game.

you guys played amazing physical footy. Play like that every week and you will beat most sides in the AFL including west coast imo.

nothing but respect and one of the years most intense games. The bulldogs didn’t lose any friends the other night

Your board would have a meltdown too if your team threw a six goal lead in shortened quarters. I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[NBates]

[QUOTE="geelong_crazy26, post: 66673669, member:The bulldogs didn’t lose any friends the other night[/QUOTE]


No. They just lost their own supporters who are simply asking for changes that blind Freddy can see.

PS: you might be overrating your own team too

Sent from my SM-A505YN using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. Walker]

Don’t understand this hatred and meltdown over the loss.

from a geelong perspective it was a very tough hard fought intense game.

you guys played amazing physical footy. Play like that every week and you will beat most sides in the AFL including west coast imo.

nothing but respect and one of the years most intense games. The bulldogs didn’t lose any friends the other night

The difference is you are looking at this one game, we are looking at a couple of years of conceding ruck contests and selection decisions we don’t understand.The Dogs have made one finals series since 2016, lost that final badly and are likely to miss again this year. Maybe it’s time we changed our thinking in a couple of areas.

 

[Yojimbo]

Don’t understand this hatred and meltdown over the loss.

It's all about passion, pride and power the big three. We have passion, we have pride and we have Sam Power. I tell you something
Chris Scott and the Geelong brains trust will be still locked up in a room relieved that they steadied the ship, but concerned that
they lost control for a whole quarter. The early statistics were graphic, but so unorthodox and easy to counter with simple grinding
pressure. The good teams were watching and hit record on the VCR be concerned, be very concerned.