Oppo Camp The non North football discussion thread II

[DarwinRoo]

If Goodes was such a douche and sniper before he was awarded AOTY why has the booing only recently started?

 

[Harris 10]

The Goodes situation is being handled poorly.

If the people booing him are doing it because they're racist how does asking them to stop solve the situation. Even if they do stop, they're still racists, so nothing has changed.

Some of the other suggestions getting around will also do nothing to help the situation, they will show support to the player which is great but it doesn't fix the issue.

This all gets back to education which is going to be difficult but you need to start somewhere.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

If Goodes was such a douche and sniper before he was awarded AOTY why has the booing only recently started?

What's your opinion?

Are you saying the booing can only be racist? As well as being a douche and sniper before he was AOTY, he was aboriginal the whole time as well.

Are you saying the booing is tall poppy syndrome, because people don't like that he was AOTY? How do you explain the two year lag between that and the booing?

Or are you saying he has only become a douche and sniper since he was AOTY? That would be a logical explanation, but it fails to acknowledge he was always annoyed people with the douchey and snipey elements of his game.

 

[Harris 10]

If people continue to boo him now after its become really clear the personal impact it's having on him, it's show's they're pretty ordinary people.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

If people continue to boo him now after its become really clear the personal impact it's having on him, it's show's they're pretty ordinary people.

Agree. FWIW, this is what I posted earlier, but probably on the wrong thread.

1. Interesting how Adam Goodes gets his opponent out of the way before kicking a goal left of screen against WCE. The bloke is left flat on his face. Seems to be acceptable to the umpire standing side on. Or maybe he's just too gutless to pay an obvious free against him for fear of being called a racist?

2. The final "movements" in Lewis Jetta's cultural dance are the only parts that I understand. One is throwing the spear and the other is a good old "up yours". Nobody in the media or at the AFL has mentioned the up yours.

Well said. From Rebecca Wilson (disgraceful effort from a disgraceful "journalist") to Gerard Whately to Gerard Healey all the way down to slobbo (via that Adelaide buffoon, McDermott), we have been subject to the less-than-impressive body of football journalists all scrambling to show the world that they're not racist. How do they do it? By all jumping on something easy to hide behind - in the space of 24 hours, every one of them has adopted the supreme cop-out view that "because Adam thinks it's racist, then it's racist". Weak-minded, spineless, pathetic. Surely some of them are not satisfied that this is acceptable logic? How ironic is it that Dermott is one of the few to have a balanced view.

Weeks ago I was unfazed about the booing because I'm not a Goodes fan. However, when I went to the North v Sydney game, I didn't like it. It's not a good thing that it has continued and indeed, gotten worse. It has become a big issue because it now borders on victimisation and I absolutely agree that it must be stopped.

But to blanket label it as racist is, plain and simple, wrong. And insulting. Sure, there are some people who are racist and are perhaps booing Goodes on that basis. But there are undoubtedly others, like me, who don't like him because of how he is on the football field: snipey, divey, always whinging that he should get frees, but is an untouchable when frees should be paid against him. On that latter, most will say "good luck to him". I agree, but it doesn't mean I like it. I also didn't like the reporting of the 12 y-o girl. Self-appointed racist policeman victimising someone who couldn't even spell racist, let alone be one. I also didn't like his war-dance, it was unnecessarily provocative and attention-whoring. To me, Goodes comes across as a self absorbed flog, which is what I dislike most (I dislike Harry O for the same reason - another black man, I must be racist!). Goodes is also a gun footballer, a champion of the game, but you don't have to like all champions by default.

One the other hand, I really liked Jetta's war dance. It was appropriate and courageous and a brilliant way of defending a mate. I didn't miss the "up yours", but it was part of the message and part of what I liked. The politically correct set had to ignore it, though, LOL.

Maybe this last bit is me trying to pretend I'm not racist ...


... nah.

 

[DarwinRoo]

What's your opinion?

Are you saying the booing can only be racist? As well as being a douche and sniper before he was AOTY, he was aboriginal the whole time as well.

Are you saying the booing is tall poppy syndrome, because people don't like that he was AOTY? How do you explain the two year lag between that and the booing?

Or are you saying he has only become a douche and sniper since he was AOTY? That would be a logical explanation, but it fails to acknowledge he was always annoyed people with the douchey and snipey elements of his game.

Well here is a pop quiz of sorts. The 2015 AOTY is Rosy Battie. Adam Goodes was AOTY in 2014.
How many people can name who the 2013 AOTY was and who were the other nominees?

I think a lot of why Goodes is booed is because he is outspoken about indigenous issues. White Australians don't like the truth.

 

[numchuks]

Everyone is allowed to boo and cheer for who they want.

But if you're going to say Goodes is booed solely for what he has done in footy and as Australian of the Year, it's pretty stupid considering the other much worse things footy players have done that the public doesn't pay nearly as much attention too onfield ie. Drug young women up, bash cleaners at Fed Square, go to prison for assault etc.

Not sure why those players don't get booed as well. It says something about the situation imo.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Well here is a pop quiz of sorts. The 2015 AOTY is Rosy Battie. Adam Goodes was AOTY in 2014.
How many people can name who the 2013 AOTY was and who were the other nominees?

I think a lot of why Goodes is booed is because he is outspoken about indigenous issues. White Australians don't like the truth.

You're right, but it only explains the motivation of some white Australians in booing him. And it's clearly racist.

On the other hand, some just don't like Goodes the footballer and it has nothing to do with his non-football persona. The non-racist element.

Excuse the pun, but like most social issues, it's not all black and white.

 

[GarnerSmash]

If people continue to boo him now after its become really clear the personal impact it's having on him, it's show's they're pretty ordinary people.

Yeah. Out of respect for him as a human being I think its high time that people let the booing thing go now that it is clear that it is affecting him in such a negative way. It may be his belief that the booing is coming from a racist place, but i think that there is significant holes in that stance given the long term criticism of some of his on field antics.

I agree that it started as a consequence of his war dance celebration (which FWIW I have no problem with) and I believe that there was an element of racism in the reaction to that, but the continuation and indeed escalation of the booing cannot be attributed to that alone. This has given those who have thought him a ****wit for a long time for non-racist reasons the opportunity and impetus to get involved and here we are.

I guarantee you that if it was Daniel Wells that there may have been initial booing on game day and perhaps some residual booing from certain sections, but it would have passed by now because Wells doesn't carry on to the umps, snipe and get away with murder.

 

[toepoker]

Some of the booing is racist. And some of it is just pitiful behaviour. All of it should stop. It embarrasses me as a football fan.

 

[GarnerSmash]

You're right, but it only explains the motivation of some white Australians in booing him. And it's clearly racist.

On the other hand, some just don't like Goodes the footballer and it has nothing to do with his non-football persona. The non-racist element.

Excuse the pun, but like most social issues, it's not all black and white.

Damn straight.

I admire Goodes for what he has done for his people and what he continues to do and represent. But it should not get lost in this debate that there are other significant reasons for booing the guy other than his opinion and heritage.

However, it has gone on far too long imo.

 

[Arden]

Which half?

The short half.

Oh no, I'm racist.

 

[koshari]

How ironic is it that Dermott is one of the few to have a balanced view.

Hes still a flog of the highest order our Dermott though,

Weeks ago I was unfazed about the booing because I'm not a Goodes fan. However, when I went to the North v Sydney game, I didn't like it. It's not a good thing that it has continued and indeed, gotten worse. It has become a big issue because it now borders on victimisation and I absolutely agree that it must be stopped.

that is the sheep mentality.

But to blanket label it as racist is, plain and simple, wrong. And insulting.

absolutely

Sure, there are some people who are racist and are perhaps booing Goodes on that basis.

as they booed the krakour brothers in the 80s.

I also didn't like the reporting of the 12 y-o girl. Self-appointed racist policeman victimising someone who couldn't even spell racist, let alone be one.

if the girl was silly enough to yell stuff out she wasnt aware of the meaning then all fool her and deserved of the negative attention she got. if she knew she has no excuse.
whatever the case its a bigger inditement on her parents.

Goodes is also a gun footballer, a champion of the game, but you don't have to like all champions by default.

Exactly. Carey and Ablett SNR were hardley "Pillars" of society.

One the other hand, I really liked Jetta's war dance. It was appropriate and courageous and a brilliant way of defending a mate. I didn't miss the "up yours", but it was part of the message and part of what I liked. The politically correct set had to ignore it, though, LOL.

Maybe this last bit is me trying to pretend I'm not racist ...

... nah.

i think that anyone claiming they are not at least a little bit racist is fooling them selves,unfortinately racism is just a natural extension of all peoples instincts to look after their own.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

i think that anyone claiming they are not at least a little bit racist is fooling them selves,unfortinately racism is just a natural extension of all peoples instincts to look after their own.

I don't believe that the natural instinct to look after, relate to and be more comfortable with your own, falls within the definition of racism.

Racism is holding a different opinion about a person or a group of people on the basis of their different race ("bloody Indian taxi drivers").

 

[Hearts to hearts]

So if I thought Goodes was a sniping, protected flog prior to the war dance thing, does that make me a racist or not?

Did you boo him then, louder and longer than any umpire, sniper or other flog?

Because lots of people have. Some of them are racists. Some of them hate him saying there is racism in Australia more than they hate anything any other player has ever said or done, onfield or off. And lots of them love the power of being in a loud mob and either are happy about shielding racists or think their right to boo any time they want is just more important than anything else.

This issue has driven me out of the cheer squad and is making me tired of football. So, so disappointing and depressing.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Did you boo him then, louder and longer than any umpire, sniper or other flog?

Because lots of people have. Some of them are racists. Some of them hate him saying there is racism in Australia more than they hate anything any other player has ever said or done, onfield or off. And lots of them love the power of being in a loud mob and either are happy about shielding racists or think their right to boo any time they want is just more important than anything else.

This issue has driven me out of the cheer squad and is making me tired of football. So, so disappointing and depressing.

Bloody racists. Spoiling the fun for everyone.


Look, I don't boo any player. It's just not the way I roll. I think less of some than others for various reasons but I keep it to discussion on those reasons alone. As such this whole episode to me has been somewhat unsavoury, but I get why people want to keep it up. It is a pity that it has provided racist campaigners with a barrow to get, and feel safe, behind and as such the who phenomenon has now become one about race in the media and probably in Goodes' mind and the mind of other indigenous players. While race is a part of this and should be acknowledged as a problem in this country, balanced coverage should also apply. It has not and now booing Goodes = racist. Which it isn't, necessarily.

 

[koshari]

oh gosh, even alan jones has weighed in on the debate...
http://media.theage.com.au/video-sp...s-adam-goodes-is-always-a-victim-6722948.html

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

The short half.

Oh no, I'm racist.

: South Park Japanese people :

 

[Joshen]

To be honest Goodes should be weighing up retirement even if the booing saga hadn't existed.

 

[sutcliffe's hotel]

This issue has driven me out of the cheer squad and is making me tired of football. So, so disappointing and depressing.

Such a shame. I vividly recall the hatred directed at Jim & Phil, sadly even from North fans at times. So much positive engagement around racist issues has occurred in that time. During the 80s it felt impossible that this could change. Yet here we are with Dreamtime at the G (hosted in part by * of all teams), an Indigenous round & proudly wearing an Indigenous jumper. More importantly this racist stuff is being called for what it is.

I thought the discussion prior to the Swans game on our board reflected the broad views held in the community. Alas on game day the booing happened, but let us remember that many did not. Under the media glare it all looks and feels horrible, but they need to focus on conflict & ignore the unity.

LT is a proud indigenous footballer & when he was about to come onto the Gabba Saturday night, the expectant roar from the north faithful was spine tingling. But yes, non indigenous peoples engagement with race is complex & at times dispiriting.

 

[blackshadow]

Will be interesting to see if these media types and the AFL call people who boo Lindsay racist...

 

[Luke72]

Goodes has regularly played a big part in beating us even when his form has sucked in the lead up. I've no doubt there's some racist element to the whole thing but it's as much about a sign of how good a player he is.

I was born in NZ and have supported the black caps in the cricket due to parental pressure and sat through packed MCG crowds chanting 'Hadley's a w***er', the same thing for Carey. Why did it happen? Because they were very good! What did they do? They stood up and played better.

I sometimes get the feeling Adam is hoping to have a Nicky Winmar moment, he tries very hard to promote the cause and bring down racism ironically the way it plays out it has the opposite effect. I think post AFL he will do great things and be lauded but on the field showing sensitivity is still seen as weakness and the crowd picks up on it.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Goodes has regularly played a big part in beating us even when his form has sucked in the lead up. I've no doubt there's some racist element to the whole thing but it's as much about a sign of how good a player he is.

I was born in NZ and have supported the black caps in the cricket due to parental pressure and sat through packed MCG crowds chanting 'Hadley's a ******', the same thing for Carey. Why did it happen? Because they were very good! What did they do? They stood up and played better.

I sometimes get the feeling Adam is hoping to have a Nicky Winmar moment, he tries very hard to promote the cause and bring down racism ironically the way it plays out it has the opposite effect. I think post AFL he will do great things and be lauded but on the field showing sensitivity is still seen as weakness and the crowd picks up on it.

Lots of good points here.

There are some players who would revel in being cast as the villain and booed every week. They would lift and do things to get booed even more. Goodes makes it clear that he doesn't like it and undoubtedly that encourages some people to do it.

Hadlee is actually a nice parallel - a wonderful cricketer who destroyed us far too often, but a big mouth who got up people's noses, too. I was in Bay 13 chanting "Hadlee's a w@nker", trying to put him off his game. (I was also there the day the Bay started chanting "Kapil's got a hard-on" and another time did some exercises behind big Merv. Some of my great times at the cricket.)

 

[Only Forwards]

If Goodes was such a douche and sniper before he was awarded AOTY why has the booing only recently started?

Because it only started recently it leads me to it not really being racially motivated. I mean I am sure that there are elements of that but I think when the Hawks fans did it and then it got Media traction now there are a whole bunch of sheep who see it as some sort of free rights game where I can boo because it is my right to boo.

The guys behind me at the North v Sydney game could not articulate why they booed they just booed (something about "I just don't like the bloke"), the issue with that is he basically did nothing. I mean does it make any sesne at all to boo a guy on the recieving end of a square up kick from the boundry? I'm more inclined to boo the idiotic play from North that preceded it with us not forcing the ball out leading to the square up kick.

I boo players all the time, when they are ****s on field. That happens all the time. I boo'd Hodge and Lewis, I will likely boo Lewis every time we play him from now on out because he's been cited 7 f***ing times against us. That shit deserves it. Dog.

I boo'd Goodes, yeah I booed him in 2011 for his consistent whining to the umpire, it was atrocious, we lost the game by a point, with an idiotic free given against Brady in the closing stages of the game. I booed, him, them, the umpires. What a shit day that was.

The media made this circus, by making it an issue, because issues sell papers. Booing happens, for him some of it is probably racially motivated, just like some of it for Lindsay would be too. But I think it has gone beyond that and people are doing it now because it is seen as a game, no you can't tell me not to boo.

Its a very interesting comparison to make between the perception of Goodes in the media and the perception of Lindsay.

If the booing of Goodes doesn't get the publicity post the Hawks game where he was roundly booed, does he get booed the next week? Maybe but not by people who are feeling that there is some perceived impedement to their booing.

If the media shut the f*** up about it does most of it go away, I believe it probably would.

 

[niko11]

Just heard we're being told not to boo him because it's only racism and not him being douchey.

Piss off.

This exactly!!!!!!!!!
GAGF so no more booing players that are sensitive from now on..
There is a reason why Goodes gets Booed and acting like a Douche is one of them.
Im against rascism and believe there is a small minority in the crowd but this is just ridiculous..
So let me get this right no more booing A.Goodes if he plays but booing,swearing of other players for watever reason is acceptable um yeah ok watever.....