The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[King Harold]

So nothing to add but ad hominems?

Ok I’ll bite.
Calling us anti Trump crew ill informed while you glide past all his many deficiencies.
How do you rate his :
Intelligence
Morality
His mental stability ?

Not concerned about his criminality ?
Not concerned about his incoherent rambling?
Not concerned about not conceding elections and happy to watch the violence on the capital on tv , while doing nothing ?
Not concerned about so many of the people that served in his administration, including most of his cabinet telling the world he should be no where near the levers of power again ?

I could go on and on but these are just some my reasons I am far from a fan.

But knock yourself out , let’s hear why this narcissistic moron is your guy !
.

 

[stefcep]

Ok I’ll bite.
Calling us anti Trump crew ill informed while you glide past all his many deficiencies.
How do you rate his :
Intelligence
Morality
His mental stability ?

Not concerned about his criminality ? You mean the show trials?

Not concerned about his incoherent rambling? You mean like this: "I can imagine what can be and be unburdened by what has been, you know"...I love Venn Diagrams I just do rememebr those 3 circles that overlap..Ukraine is a Country in Europe. It exists next another country called Russia. Russia is a bigger country. Russia is a powerful country. Russia decided to invade small country called Ukraine. So basically that's wrong.

Not concerned about not conceding elections and happy to watch the violence on the capital on tv , while doing nothing ?

The decision on whether to call National Guard troops to the Capitol is made by what is known as the Capitol Police Board, which is made up of the House Sergeant at Arms, the Senate Sergeant at Arms and the Architect of the Capitol. The board decided not to call the guard ahead of the insurrection but did eventually request assistance after the rioting had already begun, and the troops arrived several hours later.

Pelosi did not block the National Guard from the Capitol on Jan. 6

On Tuesday, a false claim about the deadly Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol resurfaced suggesting that Pelosi blocked the National Guard from coming to lawmakers’ defense during the insurrection at the Capitol.

apnews.com

Not concerned about so many of the people that served in his administration, including most of his cabinet telling the world he should be no where near the levers of power again ?

Nope. No wars under his watch. Booming economy. Booming stcok market. Record unemployment for marginalized groups, including women. What's there not to like?

I could go on and on but these are just some my reasons I am far from a fan.

But knock yourself out , let’s hear why this narcissistic moron is your guy !
.

Plus anyone that can piss off the hyprocrite regressive liberal elitist is An All Round Good Bloke.

 

[bresker]

. I've been informed by an ophthalmologits that it takes between two and 3 years to get public system cataract surgery in Victoria.

Everybody like the idea of Univeral Healthcare. Who should pay for it? Someone else.

Then get private healthcare insurance like they do in America, and you can get the operation done quicker.

 

[stefcep]

Then get private healthcare insurance like they do in America, and you can get the operation done quicker.

I have.

And what do you mean by "like in America"? Most Australians have Private Health Insurance.

Its funny how people think Australia's health system is "better". Its only better if you don't pay (or pay a token) Medicare Levy and no PHI nor the tax penalty for not having PHI. You know, if you don't actually pay to fund it.

In the US employer sponsored PHI the average annual worker contribution was $1,401 for an individual plan and $6,575 for a family plan.

How much does health insurance cost in 2024?

Health insurance can cost thousands a year, but your total costs will depend on the plan you choose and how much care you need.

www.usatoday.com

This is less than what I pay here in Australia for Medicare and PHI.

 

[Bulldog1954]

As for Elon well he's not the Left's billionaire social media owner and as he owns it, he can do whatever the hell he wants. Goose. Gander. You know the saying.

He can do what he wants, but as someone who constantly claims to be a free speech absolutist it's extremely hypocritical.

 

[bresker]

I have.

And what do you mean by "like in America"? Most Australians have Private Health Insurance.

Its funny how people think Australia's health system is "better". Its only better if you don't pay (or pay a token) Medicare Levy and no PHI nor the tax penalty for not having PHI. You know, if you don't actually pay to fund it.

In the US employer sponsored PHI the average annual worker contribution was $1,401 for an individual plan and $6,575 for a family plan.

How much does health insurance cost in 2024?

Health insurance can cost thousands a year, but your total costs will depend on the plan you choose and how much care you need.

www.usatoday.com

This is less than what I pay here in Australia for Medicare and PHI.

I recently got a really bad case of the shingles. My back got a nasty secondary bacterial infection. I was in hospital.for a week and a half. On IV antibiotics and then operated on at the theatre in my local hospital.

After I got home a district nurse came out to see me & changed my dressings every day. I got two follow up appointments with my surgeon at his private rooms.

The total cost was $29 for the district nurse visits. I got the first week free but paid a small fee thereon.

Now stefcep I think you should cut & paste my post over there in some other board thst Americans frequent, and see what they think of that.

 

[stefcep]

He can do what he wants, but as someone who constantly claims to be a free speech absolutist it's extremely hypocritical.

Of course!

But...when Twitter was overtly left wing with its censorship, the owner was gaslighting everyone that that wasn't the case and the leftists cheered it on

The problem is that the worm has now turned, and the leftists Dont. Like. It.

 

[stefcep]

I recently got a really bad case of the shingles. My back got a nasty secondary bacterial infection. I was in hospital.for a week and a half. On IV antibiotics and then operated on at the theatre in my local hospital.

After I got home a district nurse came out to see me & changed my dressings every day. I got two follow up appointments with my surgeon at his private rooms.

The total cost was $29 for the district nurse visits. I got the first week free but paid a small fee thereon.

Now stefcep I think you should cut & paste my post over there in some other board thst Americans frequent, and see what they think of that.

The total cost to you may have been $29 for that service- and I don't know if you pay a Medicare Levy, and how much, for how long, plus PHI or the tax penalty- but if it wasn't you that paid for it, then somebody pays. That district nurse alone is on $70 per hour. That's how you end up waiting 3 years for public cataract surgery. Don't even ask about public dental.

 

[bresker]

The total cost to you may have been $29 for that service- and I don't know if you pay a Medicare Levy, and how much, for how long, plus PHI or the tax penalty- but if it wasn't you that paid for it, then somebody pays. That district nurse alone is on $70 per hour. That's how you end up waiting 3 years for public cataract surgery. Don't even ask about public dental.

It's not all about dollars or who pays. It's about a high quality service. I pay my Medicare Levy, I pay my taxes.

Apart from you, who is begrudging me my healthcare ? What is treating me for virtually free taking away from you or like minded souls?

I couldnt afford $70 district nurse fees, meaning I would be off work for longer. That woukd mean I would claim centrelink benefits. My family would suffer & my employer and the company they have the contract with would suffer , as there is no-one to adequately replace me.

As I say, please cut and paste my post somewhere Americans frequent and come back to me. Or even the UK. Our Aussie healthcare system is great. I grew up in the UK where healthcare is a constant political football . The US is the same.

Healthcare isn't even a topic that's on most general election agendas here. Neither party makes a big deal out of it. That tells you something. It's not perfect by any means but we're doing OK.

 

[wayniac]

The total cost to you may have been $29 for that service- and I don't know if you pay a Medicare Levy, and how much, for how long, plus PHI or the tax penalty- but if it wasn't you that paid for it, then somebody pays. That district nurse alone is on $70 per hour. That's how you end up waiting 3 years for public cataract surgery. Don't even ask about public dental.

I just paid $325 for an MRI. Previous MRI I had was in 2002 in California. Zero cost, covered by PHI which is part of your employment benefits.

I knew a guy who couldn't change jobs in the USA, he was so obese and unhealthy that he would lose his insurance cover if he changed jobs. He chose not to lose weight. Stupid.

 

[Arkangel]

Booming economy. Booming stcok market. Record unemployment for marginalized groups, including women. What's there not to like?

You realise the stock market in the US is way higher now than it ever was under Trump, right? The S&P 500 is currently at 5597; the highest it was under Trump was about 3700. Unemployment has also been either equally low or lower during the Biden administration than at its lowest under Trump, both in general and for the separate groups for which the Bureau of Labor Statistics has data available (White, Black, Hispanic, Women, Men).

Personally I don't think stock market values are a good indicator of a really successful economy, because it's never clear to what extent they reflect hype vs. actual value. But if that's something you want to claim as a success for Trump, it seems to follow that Biden has been even better.

Plus anyone that can piss off the hyprocrite regressive liberal elitist is An All Round Good Bloke.

Who is this "hypocrite regressive liberal elitist"? Is it an actual person? Or is it a figment of someone's imagination?

 

[bresker]

Don't even ask about public dental.

The UK only has nominal public dental these days, it's almost impossible to get on the list.

You can get emergency public dental if you have a concession card in Victoria. Just rock up to the dental hospital and pretend to be in pain.

I don't know where has free dental in the world these days. Cuba? Try there.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Record unemployment for marginalized groups, including women. What's there not to like?[/I]

In 2023 the US recorded its lowest unemployment rates in 54 years.

The current record unemployment rates for Black and Hispanic people also occurred in 2023.

 

[stefcep]

It's not all about dollars or who pays. It's about a high quality service. I pay my Medicare Levy, I pay my taxes.

Apart from you, who is begrudging me my healthcare ? What is treating me for virtually free taking away from you or like minded souls?

I couldnt afford $70 district nurse fees, meaning I would be off work for longer. That woukd mean I would claim centrelink benefits. My family would suffer & my employer and the company they have the contract with would suffer , as there is no-one to adequately replace me.

As I say, please cut and paste my post somewhere Americans frequent and come back to me. Or even the UK. Our Aussie healthcare system is great. I grew up in the UK where healthcare is a constant political football . The US is the same.

Healthcare isn't even a topic that's on most general election agendas here. Neither party makes a big deal out of it. That tells you something. It's not perfect by any means but we're doing OK.

Who is begrudging you your healthcare?

You can't afford $70 for nurse but what's a day at the footy cost?

You being treated for free is one reason why someone else has to wait 3 years to have their eye sight fixed. There's no such things as free anything. Someone either pays or someone else misses out. There is no magic pudding paying for it all.

 

[stefcep]

You realise the stock market in the US is way higher now than it ever was under Trump, right? The S&P 500 is currently at 5597; the highest it was under Trump was about 3700. Unemployment has also been either equally low or lower during the Biden administration than at its lowest under Trump, both in general and for the separate groups for which the Bureau of Labor Statistics has data available (White, Black, Hispanic, Women, Men).

Stocks performed better under Trump, though both presidencies coincided with stronger-than-average gains—the S&P 500 index has posted an annualized return of 12.5% since Biden took office in 2021, compared to 16.3% under Trump

How The Economy Really Fared Under Biden/Harris And Trump—From Jobs To Inflation (Final Update)

The final economic data is in ahead of the election—here's what the numbers say about the Trump and Biden/Harris economies.

www.forbes.com

Unemployment under Biden 4.7%. Under Trump 3.5%.

Inflation..we won't go there

Personally I don't think stock market values are a good indicator of a really successful economy, because it's never clear to what extent they reflect hype vs. actual value. But if that's something you want to claim as a success for Trump, it seems to follow that Biden has been even better.

This is false

Who is this "hypocrite regressive liberal elitist"? Is it an actual person? Or is it a figment of someone's imagination?

A mirror can sometimes help.

 

[stefcep]

In 2023 the US recorded its lowest unemployment rates in 54 years.

My sources say this is false.

The current record unemployment rates for Black and Hispanic people also occurred in 2023.

UnderTrump there was a post-Covid decline in unemployment for Blacks and Hispanics that continued under Biden. But it was at record lows pre-Covid under Trump.

 

[Arkangel]

Stocks performed better under Trump, though both presidencies coincided with stronger-than-average gains—the S&P 500 index has posted an annualized return of 12.5% since Biden took office in 2021, compared to 16.3% under Trump

How The Economy Really Fared Under Biden/Harris And Trump—From Jobs To Inflation (Final Update)

The final economic data is in ahead of the election—here's what the numbers say about the Trump and Biden/Harris economies.

www.forbes.com

So, if a "booming stock market" is one of the positives you ascribe to Trump's time in office, is your argument that 16.3% annual growth is meaningfully better than 12.5% annual growth? If so, I think it's a weak one, given how variable/noisy stock market growth is. For instance, in individual years under Trump, the annual changes varied across a 35% p.a range; and under Biden they've varied across a 46% p.a. range. As someone who works with numbers for a living, I think it would be silly to take anything out of that---or even to suggest that either president's term has seen growth meaningfully above the long-term average of about 10% p.a.

Unemployment under Biden 4.7%. Under Trump 3.5%.

The link you provided gives different figures. It describes 3.5% as the lowest level of unemployment reached during the Trump administration; and the 4.7% value is for unemployment at the start of the Trump administration, not the level under Biden. When Biden took office in January 2021, unemployment was at 6.7%; and the lowest it's reached during his term has been 3.4%.

A mirror can sometimes help.

Right, so you're implying that a doggies supporter you've never met is a "hypocrite regressive liberal elitist"? Obviously you're free to have your own opinions, but that seems pretty ridiculous to me.

 

[Floridog]

This is worth another reply- you do realize Trumps border was far more effective than the Swiss Cheese Porder control of Biden- actually Harris it was her watch? So who is the party that the Rich Bastards are funnelling their money into to make sure effective border controls never get passed? It aint the Republicans because less illegals go in under Trump!

For the last fifty years or so there has always been more illegal immigration under Republican administrations than Democrat administrations. Maybe that changed under Trump, but he has a habit of lying and exaggerating such numbers. Looking at numbers from government agencies that Trump would have a hard time tampering with it does look like Trump is the first Republican to bring illegal entries down somewhat. And yes the numbers appear to have gone back up under Biden (though they are going back down again now) but how much of that was due to every Republican leader and MAGA influencer and right wing media falsely broadcasting to the world that our borders were wide open. In my lifetime the Republicans have held a majority in both houses of Congress as well as the White Hose 4 times. And not one of those times did they even attempt to pass immigration reform or anti-abortion laws for that matter. The most recent attempt to pass border control reforms was shut down by the Republicans, not the Democrats even after the Democrats gave them almost everything they wanted in the bill. Trump shut it down because it would hurt his chances of winning the election. Border control and abortion have ALWAYS been things to get Republicans elected, not things to get done. And finally, yes the rich bastards that exploit illegal workers donate a fair bit of money to buy themselves Democrat politicians but not nearly as much as they spend on Republicans.

Oh, and Harris' job was not to go to the border but to go to the countries where the bulk of the immigrants were coming from and work with those countries to stem the tide. A tough ask, but the numbers show that she did have some success.

 

[stefcep]

So, if a "booming stock market" is one of the positives you ascribe to Trump's time in office, is your argument that 16.3% annual growth is meaningfully better than 12.5% annual growth? If so, I think it's a weak one, given how variable/noisy stock market growth is. For instance, in individual years under Trump, the annual changes varied across a 35% p.a range; and under Biden they've varied across a 46% p.a. range. As someone who works with numbers for a living, I think it would be silly to take anything out of that---or even to suggest that either president's term has seen growth meaningfully above the long-term average of about 10% p.a.



The link you provided gives different figures. It describes 3.5% as the lowest level of unemployment reached during the Trump administration; and the 4.7% value is for unemployment at the start of the Trump administration, not the level under Biden. When Biden took office in January 2021, unemployment was at 6.7%; and the lowest it's reached during his term has been 3.4%.



Right, so you're implying that a doggies supporter you've never met is a "hypocrite regressive liberal elitist"? Obviously you're free to have your own opinions, but that seems pretty ridiculous to me.

So lets agree that there is no meaningful difference in their economic performance. The world economy didn't end during Trumps Presidency. In fact it thrived.

But that's not really the point, is it?

The real point is this:

Only one candidate is being predicted to destroy the world economy when it thrived under his previous term. One candidate is being predicted to literally blow up the world yet his nation started no new war under his previous term as President. One candidate is having misleading videos implying that he is a peice of shit racist when he calls a monster an illegal immigrant who r*ped, strangled and bashed to death a 22 year old nurse. One candidate is having misleading videos posted regarding his health policies. Only one candidate has literally been called Hitler.

Now because that misinformation suits leftist politics, leftists don't care that's all lies. In fact the self appointed protectors of truth cheer the lies on and lap it all up. That's the hypocrisy of the woke left.

 

[King Harold]

Not concerned about not conceding elections and happy to watch the violence on the capital on tv , while doing nothing ?

The decision on whether to call National Guard troops to the Capitol is made by what is known as the Capitol Police Board, which is made up of the House Sergeant at Arms, the Senate Sergeant at Arms and the Architect of the Capitol. The board decided not to call the guard ahead of the insurrection but did eventually request assistance after the rioting had already begun, and the troops arrived several hours later.

Pelosi did not block the National Guard from the Capitol on Jan. 6

On Tuesday, a false claim about the deadly Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol resurfaced suggesting that Pelosi blocked the National Guard from coming to lawmakers’ defense during the insurrection at the Capitol.

apnews.com

Nope. No wars under his watch. Booming economy. Booming stcok market. Record unemployment for marginalized groups, including women. What's there not to like?




Plus anyone that can piss off the hyprocrite regressive liberal elitist is An All Round Good Bloke.

Good on you mate
You had a crack, but I will say you set a very low bar as to what should be acceptable.

Have you bought any of his bibles or sneakers ?
Maybe you graduated at his fake university?
Or perhaps helped out or even contributed to his fake charity ?

I could go through your reply line by line , but I’m just too damn lazy.
Needless to say it’s like Swiss cheese , there’s holes everywhere.

 

[stefcep]

For the last fifty years or so there has always been more illegal immigration under Republican administrations than Democrat administrations. Maybe that changed under Trump, but he has a habit of lying and exaggerating such numbers. Looking at numbers from government agencies that Trump would have a hard time tampering with it does look like Trump is the first Republican to bring illegal entries down somewhat. And yes the numbers appear to have gone back up under Biden (though they are going back down again now) but how much of that was due to every Republican leader and MAGA influencer and right wing media falsely broadcasting to the world that our borders were wide open. In my lifetime the Republicans have held a majority in both houses of Congress as well as the White Hose 4 times. And not one of those times did they even attempt to pass immigration reform or anti-abortion laws for that matter. The most recent attempt to pass border control reforms was shut down by the Republicans, not the Democrats even after the Democrats gave them almost everything they wanted in the bill. Trump shut it down because it would hurt his chances of winning the election. Border control and abortion have ALWAYS been things to get Republicans elected, not things to get done. And finally, yes the rich bastards that exploit illegal workers donate a fair bit of money to buy themselves Democrat politicians but not nearly as much as they spend on Republicans.

Oh, and Harris' job was not to go to the border but to go to the countries where the bulk of the immigrants were coming from and work with those countries to stem the tide. A tough ask, but the numbers show that she did have some success.

What has happened 50 years ago is no longer releavnt. Trump's voter base is not the high income, wealthy, privileged degree educated inner city dwellers. The voter bases switched sides because the Democrats no longer want anything with the great unwashed deplorables.

Fact is there was a massive increase in border apprehensions under Trump. Fact is border crossing blew out under Biden and some of his own party demanded he take executive action to stem the tide.

Biden literally appointed Harris to the border control role. Fact is she was asked mutliple times when she would actually go to the border herself. She refused because it was politically bad optics for her. Her condescending and dismissisive reply is here:

 

[stefcep]

Good on you mate
You had a crack, but I will say you set a very low bar as to what should be acceptable.

Have you bought any of his bibles or sneakers ?
Maybe you graduated at his fake university?
Or perhaps helped out or even contributed to his fake charity ?

I could go through your reply line by line , but I’m just too damn lazy.
Needless to say it’s like Swiss cheese , there’s holes everywhere.

So you got nothing but ad homs (again) when the facts don't match your opinions.

 

[King Harold]

The total cost to you may have been $29 for that service- and I don't know if you pay a Medicare Levy, and how much, for how long, plus PHI or the tax penalty- but if it wasn't you that paid for it, then somebody pays. That district nurse alone is on $70 per hour. That's how you end up waiting 3 years for public cataract surgery. Don't even ask about public dental.

Just pulling you up on the 3 yr cataract wait.
I have 2 mates just had the surgery, wait time was 4 months for one and 6 months the other ( both public )
I assume it may depend on urgency ?
So maybe it could get out to 3 years ?

 

[stefcep]

Just pulling you up on the 3 yr cataract wait.
I have 2 mates just had the surgery, wait time was 4 months for one and 6 months the other ( both public )
I assume it may depend on urgency ?
So maybe it could get out to 3 years ?

Of course there is a priority system. Its a system that means that last year 12,000 Australians died waiting for essential surgery.

Its not just the waiting times- you're lkely to get a trainee "registrar" surgeon and their abilities vary according to their experience, good luck if you get a noob. You get the basic implants. That's how it is "free".

Universal free health care is not the panacea people think that is. You get what you pay for.

 

[King Harold]

So you got nothing but ad homs (again) when the facts don't match your opinions.

So you got nothing but ??????
I know it’s a pretty tough gig constantly defending this moron.
Have you read his bible yet ?

Does this sound like a Trump idea ? ( I think he denied it )
But we can add it to injecting bleach , or nuking a hurricane, just to name a few and it sounds about right .