Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[gringo2011]

The athletes villages are millions not billions and are easily re used (Dan announced a couple bil in public housing today that will be a drop in the ocean for that problem anyway). Plus you can still have the villages in the burbs or close regions, the stadum upgrades and infrastucture costs were the blow out.

Plus if the reports are to be believed GCF and others made the suggestion to keep it in Melbourne and use existing and the Vic Gov said "Nah we like the regions and weve costed them, not even entertaining the Melbourne option"... IF you believe that.

100% believe that. When money is cheap governments are right to borrow and spend. Post pandemic everyone was trying to work out how to stimulate our way back. The problem in the meantime materials, labour, construction, inflation, repayments on loans etc have all gone up and the regions are back to getting tourism through. It was a great idea when we were desperate but doesn't stack up when we are back on our feet.

It's the right decision to lose the games, just very messily handled. The Poms should just make a home base for it in Manchester or something and have it there every 4 years. If they want to remember when they were the great empire of the 20th century let them pay for it. We'll turn up and beat them at everything.

 

[Mowman]

100% believe that. When money is cheap governments are right to borrow and spend. Post pandemic everyone was trying to work out how to stimulate our way back. The problem in the meantime materials, labour, construction, inflation, repayments on loans etc have all gone up and the regions are back to getting tourism through. It was a great idea when we were desperate but doesn't stack up when we are back on our feet.

It's the right decision to lose the games, just very messily handled. The Poms should just make a home base for it in Manchester or something and have it there every 4 years. If they want to remember when they were the great empire of the 20th century let them pay for it. We'll turn up and beat them at everything.

It was the wrong decision to take the games in the 1st place he really needs to be held to account for this

 

[Sun Ra]

It was the wrong decision to take the games in the 1st place he really needs to account for this

That's what PWC is for.

 

[phantom13]

It was the wrong decision to take the games in the 1st place he really needs to be held to account for this

I think the numbers from the first estimates have blown out (although i seriously doubt as much as theyve said) but regardless hes the boss and he needs to be accountable for that.

 

[Mowman]

It’s the weekend **** ers
The Ashes
The Open
Some footy ( maybe)

Happy days

 

[Mowman]

I think the numbers from the first estimates have blown out (although i seriously doubt as much as theyve said) but regardless hes the boss and he needs to be accountable for that.

I think he is lying through his ass with the numbers he has put out

Looks like he was lying about being asked to take the games on to help out as well

 

[Sun Ra]

It’s the weekend * ers
The Ashes
The Open
Some footy ( maybe)

Happy days

You forgot the World Cup mate. The Matildas ffs. Sam Kerr is a jet.

 

[phantom13]

I think he is lying through his ass with the numbers he has put out

Looks like he was lying about being asked to take the games on to help out as well

I’d be shocked if he’s lying about the raw numbers, no one is silly enough to throw numbers out there you can’t back up, but I suspect whoever was tasked with updating the figures was given an offline brief to include every lavish option to make the numbers bad.

For clarity I’m not defending that (imo every option to keep the games shoukd have been exhausted before abandonment and I doubt any options would have made it a net profit) just saying there’s no way he wouldn’t be able to substantiate the claims. That would be a monumental rookie error.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The athletes villages are millions not billions and are easily re used (Dan announced a couple bil in public housing today that will be a drop in the ocean for that problem anyway). Plus you can still have the villages in the burbs or close regions, the stadum upgrades and infrastucture costs were the blow out.

Plus if the reports are to be believed GCF and others made the suggestion to keep it in Melbourne and use existing and the Vic Gov said "Nah we like the regions and weve costed them, not even entertaining the Melbourne option"... IF you believe that.

2018 Commonwealth games were on the Gold Coast. 18 Venues.
1: Carrara Stadium 40 000 : Opening, Closing , Athletics : Vs Existing Marvel or MCG.
2: Carrara Sports and Leasure Centre : Capacity 5000, Badminton, Weight Lifting , Wrestling. Jeffs shed probably fine for that stuff.
3: Gold Coast Exhibition and Convention Centre: Basketball/Netball Preliminaries. - Hockey/Netball Centre. JohnCain or Margaret Court or Rod Laver for finals.
4: Broadbeach Bowls Club. , Who cares, use the one from Crackerjack.
5: Nerang Mountain Bike Trails. They used Lysterfield Park for the last Commonwealth Games, but its probably possible and cheap to use somewhere else if we wanted to.
6: Coomera Indoor Sports Centre. Gymnastics / Netball Finals. Melbourne utilised one of the arena's in the Tennis precinct for the world cup Gymnastics.
7: They used Movie Studio's for Boxing and Table tennis. Melbourne have used all sorts of venues from Jeffs Shed, John Cain, or the Parkville Venues for these sorts of events. Its all a matter of judging the crowd size.
8: Gold Coast Hockey Centre : The Parkville Venue is very good.
9: Southport Broadwater Parklands : Triathlon etc... Just use whatever.
10: Southport Pool, whatever they call it nowdays. vs Melbourne Sports and Aquatic Centre. Lots more spectator space at Melbourne.
11: Robina Stadium ( Rugby ) is smaller than AAMI park. Last time Melbourne had the commonwealth games, they used Marvel.
12: Currumbin Beach : Road Cycling. Well duh...anywhere.
13: Coolangatta Beach: Beach Volleyball. Anywhere from StKilda to Middle Park.
14: Track Cycling : Brisbane Melbourne can use a 1000 seat facility in Thornbury, or John Cain arena ( depending if they need John Cain for other events ).
They did shooting away from the Gold Coast, and they held preliminary heats for some sports in far north queensland. ( surely a bitch for the competitors).

They did it all on $1.5 billion in 2018. Most of the venues listed above had to be built or greatly upgraded. Compared to that we would have to do NOTHING.

Meanwhile it was a great idea to have good sports facilities in regional areas , but hell, they don't need facilities with large crowd capacity, and that's the expensive part.
The whole regional idea is shonky.

From a spectator point of view , especially an international spectator point of view.

1: Excellent accommodation in Melbourne , close to nearly all venues. vs "is there enough accommodation"?
2: Easy to buy tickets for multiple events and get from one to the other. vs " you call this a public transport service, will it really take me most of the day to get from one venue to the next "? The train from Bendigo to Ballarat goes via Melbourne.

Dumb people planning dumb things, then realising they were being dumb and taking the dumb way out.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I’d be shocked if he’s lying about the raw numbers, no one is silly enough to throw numbers out there you can’t back up, but I suspect whoever was tasked with updating the figures was given an offline brief to include every lavish option to make the numbers bad.

For clarity I’m not defending that (imo every option to keep the games shoukd have been exhausted before abandonment and I doubt any options would have made it a net profit) just saying there’s no way he wouldn’t be able to substantiate the claims. That would be a monumental rookie error.

Okay , say you wanted a Hockey ground at Bendigo.
At any time in the future would you need a facility with multiple hockey grounds , with facilities for 1000s of spectators.
They would use a very good facility with very good spectator viewing area's but the whole scale aspect is where its a colossal waste.

 

[gringo2011]

I’d be shocked if he’s lying about the raw numbers, no one is silly enough to throw numbers out there you can’t back up, but I suspect whoever was tasked with updating the figures was given an offline brief to include every lavish option to make the numbers bad.

For clarity I’m not defending that (imo every option to keep the games shoukd have been exhausted before abandonment and I doubt any options would have made it a net profit) just saying there’s no way he wouldn’t be able to substantiate the claims. That would be a monumental rookie error.

I think it was seen as stimulus when it was conceived, but now interest rates have gone up it was going to be a huge anchor. I can't see anyway that it would make cash. Perhaps it spends a lot more out in the community but businesses can hardly staff themselves yet.

They have ripped the bandaid off now because going into massive debt for an event like this doesn't stack up once interest rates start climbing. It just isn't a huge draw card internationally. You'd fill hotel rooms and that's about it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think it was seen as stimulus when it was conceived, but now interest rates have gone up it was going to be a huge anchor. I can't see anyway that it would make cash. Perhaps it spends a lot more out in the community but businesses can hardly staff themselves yet.

They have ripped the bandaid off now because going into massive debt for an event like this doesn't stack up once interest rates start climbing. It just isn't a huge draw card internationally. You'd fill hotel rooms and that's about it.

Politicians think that "regional" Australia ,is like one big thing.
They don't realise that if you do something good in Bendigo you are probably pissing off someone in Bairnsdale.

The Games wouldn't have helped "regional australia " they would have given a sugar rush to a few select towns, and casual workers would have flooded in from Melbourne adding to the lack of accommodation.

 

[phantom13]

2018 Commonwealth games were on the Gold Coast. 18 Venues.
1: Carrara Stadium 40 000 : Opening, Closing , Athletics : Vs Existing Marvel or MCG.
2: Carrara Sports and Leasure Centre : Capacity 5000, Badminton, Weight Lifting , Wrestling. Jeffs shed probably fine for that stuff.
3: Gold Coast Exhibition and Convention Centre: Basketball/Netball Preliminaries. - Hockey/Netball Centre. JohnCain or Margaret Court or Rod Laver for finals.
4: Broadbeach Bowls Club. , Who cares, use the one from Crackerjack.
5: Nerang Mountain Bike Trails. They used Lysterfield Park for the last Commonwealth Games, but its probably possible and cheap to use somewhere else if we wanted to.
6: Coomera Indoor Sports Centre. Gymnastics / Netball Finals. Melbourne utilised one of the arena's in the Tennis precinct for the world cup Gymnastics.
7: They used Movie Studio's for Boxing and Table tennis. Melbourne have used all sorts of venues from Jeffs Shed, John Cain, or the Parkville Venues for these sorts of events. Its all a matter of judging the crowd size.
8: Gold Coast Hockey Centre : The Parkville Venue is very good.
9: Southport Broadwater Parklands : Triathlon etc... Just use whatever.
10: Southport Pool, whatever they call it nowdays. vs Melbourne Sports and Aquatic Centre. Lots more spectator space at Melbourne.
11: Robina Stadium ( Rugby ) is smaller than AAMI park. Last time Melbourne had the commonwealth games, they used Marvel.
12: Currumbin Beach : Road Cycling. Well duh...anywhere.
13: Coolangatta Beach: Beach Volleyball. Anywhere from StKilda to Middle Park.
14: Track Cycling : Brisbane Melbourne can use a 1000 seat facility in Thornbury, or John Cain arena ( depending if they need John Cain for other events ).
They did shooting away from the Gold Coast, and they held preliminary heats for some sports in far north queensland. ( surely a bitch for the competitors).

They did it all on $1.5 billion in 2018. Most of the venues listed above had to be built or greatly upgraded. Compared to that we would have to do NOTHING.

Meanwhile it was a great idea to have good sports facilities in regional areas , but hell, they don't need facilities with large crowd capacity, and that's the expensive part.
The whole regional idea is shonky.

From a spectator point of view , especially an international spectator point of view.

1: Excellent accommodation in Melbourne , close to nearly all venues. vs "is there enough accommodation"?
2: Easy to buy tickets for multiple events and get from one to the other. vs " you call this a public transport service, will it really take me most of the day to get from one venue to the next "? The train from Bendigo to Ballarat goes via Melbourne.

Dumb people planning dumb things, then realising they were being dumb and taking the dumb way out.

Yeh, i mean i think the original idea of the regional hubs was a bit of a "lets do it and we can upgrade some regional shit at the same time". Which is great in principle until the dollars become stupid. In reality some sort of hybrid would have been the best option. Upgrade some stuff regionally thats not hugely expensive (i dont know, a shooting range cant cost a billion dollars can it?) and keep the big stuff in the big city (as you say MCG, MSAC etc).

Okay , say you wanted a Hockey ground at Bendigo.
At any time in the future would you need a facility with multiple hockey grounds , with facilities for 1000s of spectators.
They would use a very good facility with very good spectator viewing area's but the whole scale aspect is where its a colossal waste.

Yep, i was actually chatting with a mate about this, i think alot of international events may need to chill with their requirements. I was reading the FIFA ones and they are frankly ridiculous. I think the smallest stadium can be is like 70k and they need to be kept exclusive and empty for 9 weeks prior to any games. Thats just ****ing stupid.

I think it was seen as stimulus when it was conceived, but now interest rates have gone up it was going to be a huge anchor. I can't see anyway that it would make cash. Perhaps it spends a lot more out in the community but businesses can hardly staff themselves yet.

They have ripped the bandaid off now because going into massive debt for an event like this doesn't stack up once interest rates start climbing. It just isn't a huge draw card internationally. You'd fill hotel rooms and that's about it.

I think holistically the state gov thought it was a great idea until they thought it wasnt and ultimately made the numbers suit the narrative, thats not excatly the same as fudging the numbers (because ultimately you can move the needle with smart accounting and lean contingencies) but its pretty ****ing poor. I seriously doubt the numbers ever stacked up, who genuinely cares about the comm games, Olympics maybe, World Cup probably but Comm Games, nahhhhh.

 

[phantom13]

Politicians think that "regional" Australia ,is like one big thing.
They don't realise that if you do something good in Bendigo you are probably pissing off someone in Bairnsdale.

The Games wouldn't have helped "regional australia " they would have given a sugar rush to a few select towns, and casual workers would have flooded in from Melbourne adding to the lack of accommodation.

Some towns would have gotten upgraded facilities but that gets forgotten pretty quick and when theyre not given the opex to maintain them and they run into disrepair ina few years they become a big old white elephant.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeh, i mean i think the original idea of the regional hubs was a bit of a "lets do it and we can upgrade some regional s**t at the same time". Which is great in principle until the dollars become stupid. In reality some sort of hybrid would have been the best option. Upgrade some stuff regionally thats not hugely expensive (i dont know, a shooting range cant cost a billion dollars can it?) and keep the big stuff in the big city (as you say MCG, MSAC etc).

Yep, i was actually chatting with a mate about this, i think alot of international events may need to chill with their requirements. I was reading the FIFA ones and they are frankly ridiculous. I think the smallest stadium can be is like 70k and they need to be kept exclusive and empty for 9 weeks prior to any games. Thats just ******* stupid.

I think holistically the state gov thought it was a great idea until they thought it wasnt and ultimately made the numbers suit the narrative, thats not excatly the same as fudging the numbers (because ultimately you can move the needle with smart accounting and lean contingencies) but its pretty ******* poor. I seriously doubt the numbers ever stacked up, who genuinely cares about the comm games, Olympics maybe, World Cup probably but Comm Games, nahhhhh.

A lot of that came out when Australia bid on the Soccer World cup.
They bid using venues such as Marvel ( Etihad ) and the MCG, and when the "empty 9 weeks " restrictions became known, AFL were like, "No you may not". Would have turned into a massive shitfight if it didn't corruptly go to Quatar.

To be honest , i'd forgotten that the 2018 commonwealth games had been in Australia, and i can't remember watching the Birmingham games.

 

[gringo2011]

Politicians think that "regional" Australia ,is like one big thing.
They don't realise that if you do something good in Bendigo you are probably pissing off someone in Bairnsdale.

The Games wouldn't have helped "regional australia " they would have given a sugar rush to a few select towns, and casual workers would have flooded in from Melbourne adding to the lack of accommodation.

Politics is very much like Utopia on ABC. Politician are often completely ignorant about much outside their own experience which is rarely as an ordinary citizen living on the margins in Moe.

I remember at one point most of the senior Libs and Lab state opposition at the time had all gone to a couple of schools. The UK government is even worse. They all talk diversity but they don't really get it.

 

[Sun Ra]

Politicians think that "regional" Australia ,is like one big thing.
They don't realise that if you do something good in Bendigo you are probably pissing off someone in Bairnsdale.

The Games wouldn't have helped "regional australia " they would have given a sugar rush to a few select towns, and casual workers would have flooded in from Melbourne adding to the lack of accommodation.

Unless they lived in dongas. Lol.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Some towns would have gotten upgraded facilities but that gets forgotten pretty quick and when theyre not given the opex to maintain them and they run into disrepair ina few years they become a big old white elephant.

The upgrading makes sense.
The huge carpark doesn't.
And like i said, its a few towns that get upgraded facilities. So yay for Bendigo, and a big "so what" , for Echuca, Albury, Shepparton, Port Fairy, Traralgon, Moe, Bairnsdale, Orbost, Warragul, etc etc etc.

Pollies think of them all collectively as " In the Bush". The people who live there don't think that way at all.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeh, i mean i think the original idea of the regional hubs was a bit of a "lets do it and we can upgrade some regional s**t at the same time". Which is great in principle until the dollars become stupid. In reality some sort of hybrid would have been the best option. Upgrade some stuff regionally thats not hugely expensive (i dont know, a shooting range cant cost a billion dollars can it?) and keep the big stuff in the big city (as you say MCG, MSAC etc).

Yep, i was actually chatting with a mate about this, i think alot of international events may need to chill with their requirements. I was reading the FIFA ones and they are frankly ridiculous. I think the smallest stadium can be is like 70k and they need to be kept exclusive and empty for 9 weeks prior to any games. Thats just ******* stupid.

I think holistically the state gov thought it was a great idea until they thought it wasnt and ultimately made the numbers suit the narrative, thats not excatly the same as fudging the numbers (because ultimately you can move the needle with smart accounting and lean contingencies) but its pretty ******* poor. I seriously doubt the numbers ever stacked up, who genuinely cares about the comm games, Olympics maybe, World Cup probably but Comm Games, nahhhhh.

100% that's any government....well and most businesses....and sport. Use figures to prove exactly what you want them to to suit your current narrative.


International events are about to get a wake up call I think. There will be less money around after a long prosperous period and they are drunk on their own success.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Unless they lived in dongas. Lol.

View attachment 1745067

 

[gringo2011]

A lot of that came out when Australia bid on the Soccer World cup.
They bid using venues such as Marvel ( Etihad ) and the MCG, and when the "empty 9 weeks " restrictions became known, AFL were like, "No you may not". Would have turned into a massive shitfight if it didn't corruptly go to Quatar.

To be honest , i'd forgotten that the 2018 commonwealth games had been in Australia, and i can't remember watching the Birmingham games.

The last Comm games I remember were the 1980s ones when I was a little tacker. I don't know if I actually remember them or have seen pictures of it but think it was pretty big back then. Back in the Bob Hawke, Christopher Skase days when Aussies took to shit events like flies to a turd because nothing had happened here since the gold rush it was a big thing. It was like getting to see It's Knockout live.

 

[Sun Ra]

Looks like an Immigration Detention Centre. I should know unfortunately ......

 

[gringo2011]

That's not far from my joint in the bush. I'm down the river from there. Now days it always seems to be on fire in summer.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The last Comm games I remember were the 1980s ones when I was a little tacker. I don't know if I actually remember them or have seen pictures of it but think it was pretty big back then. Back in the Bob Hawke, Christopher Skase days when Aussies took to s**t events like flies to a turd because nothing had happened here since the gold rush it was a big thing. It was like getting to see It's Knockout live.

The 2006 in Melbourne was pretty good.
I only went to 1 event on 2 days, but you'd go and have dinner in the city, and it was a pretty electric atmosphere. Probably similar to when the GP is in town.

 

[gringo2011]

The 2006 in Melbourne was pretty good.
I only went to 1 event on 2 days, but you'd go and have dinner in the city, and it was a pretty electric atmosphere. Probably similar to when the GP is in town.

I'm a curmudgeon so would crack the shits if people were stopping me eating where I wanted and blocking up trams.