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Yeh so it’s fixed, no point lobbying, protesting or doing anything at all to try and improve it.

Acknowledge the progress and call it day. Same with homophobia, racism, women’s rights what else have we got?

We got progress so we’re done. That’s your point isn’t it?

A bit weird to lump them all in together so I'll talk to them separately.

Climate change: as I said, economically the imperative is for decarbonisation in most sectors. That will happen, so protesting individual coal mines or whatever isn't really the main game. The main game is working out how to cope with the inevitable consequences of 2.5 degree warming. The sooner the world switches to that, the more chance we have of minimising the fallout.

Homophobia: it's done, social attitudes are basically fixed across the western world (except in the US but that's an outlier). Representation in popular culture is huge. There's no votes in gay bashing. Outliers like AFL footy and whatever will gradually fix themselves because that's the momentum from society around them, even if they hold out for a while.

Women's rights: mostly fixed from an attitudes point of view and there's minimal votes across the western world in the reactionary stuff these days (except in the US - eg Trump, Roe vs Wade - but again that's an outlier). Representation across high-powered positions is gradually working itself out as the old conservatives die. The bits that aren't fixed are fundamental and economic and that's going to take a lot longer. "Equal pay" isn't as simple a slogan as it was years ago because we can now clearly see that having a baby comes with a built in career slowdown, and it's not clear how that can be fixed in this economic system.

Racism: much more complicated than everything else on the list because it's so fundamentally and institutionally baked into capitalism. Capitalism needs a big pool of low paid workers - ideally unemployed or stored in the military and prisons until needed - and because of the western world's history of white supremacy that's historically bipoc people. This creates racism especially from working-class whites because they're competing for the same work opportunities as poor bipoc and xenophobia rises naturally from that - especially when educational standards are lower in these communities. The fix needs either a) a huge amount of effort to continue around reducing and minimising inequality; or b) destroying capitalism. Much harder either way. Also less of a thing in Australia than most other western countries.


So my original point stands. People - and political parties like the Greens - who have formed their identities around particular progressive causes being a particular way aren't good at seeing the situations for what they are now and adapting to them, which is what would get maximum effectiveness for the world.
 
A bit weird to lump them all in together so I'll talk to them separately.

Climate change: as I said, economically the imperative is for decarbonisation in most sectors. That will happen, so protesting individual coal mines or whatever isn't really the main game. The main game is working out how to cope with the inevitable consequences of 2.5 degree warming. The sooner the world switches to that, the more chance we have of minimising the fallout.

Homophobia: it's done, social attitudes are basically fixed across the western world (except in the US but that's an outlier). Representation in popular culture is huge. There's no votes in gay bashing. Outliers like AFL footy and whatever will gradually fix themselves because that's the momentum from society around them, even if they hold out for a while.

Women's rights: mostly fixed from an attitudes point of view and there's minimal votes across the western world in the reactionary stuff these days (except in the US - eg Trump, Roe vs Wade - but again that's an outlier). Representation across high-powered positions is gradually working itself out as the old conservatives die. The bits that aren't fixed are fundamental and economic and that's going to take a lot longer. "Equal pay" isn't as simple a slogan as it was years ago because we can now clearly see that having a baby comes with a built in career slowdown, and it's not clear how that can be fixed in this economic system.

Racism: much more complicated than everything else on the list because it's so fundamentally and institutionally baked into capitalism. Capitalism needs a big pool of low paid workers - ideally unemployed or stored in the military and prisons until needed - and because of the western world's history of white supremacy that's historically bipoc people. This creates racism especially from working-class whites because they're competing for the same work opportunities as poor bipoc and xenophobia rises naturally from that - especially when educational standards are lower in these communities. The fix needs either a) a huge amount of effort to continue around reducing and minimising inequality; or b) destroying capitalism. Much harder either way. Also less of a thing in Australia than most other western countries.


So my original point stands. People - and political parties like the Greens - who have formed their identities around particular progressive causes being a particular way aren't good at seeing the situations for what they are now and adapting to them, which is what would get maximum effectiveness for the world.
… you’re the one who said homophobia was done and then lumped in climate change but it’s clarified now.

Climate change, gay rights and women’s rights - fixed.

Racism - ongoing

The level of privelege and naivety you’re showing here is telling.

Maybe try asking a gay person or a woman if they think those issues are done (or even just check some DV stats). We’ve made progress absolutely no question. Perhaps we should reflect on that progress more often, I’ve got no issue with that but suggesting they are “done” or “mostly fixed” is genuinely one of the dumbest tales I’ve seen on big footy for quite some time.
 

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… you’re the one who said homophobia was done and then lumped in climate change but it’s clarified now.

Climate change, gay rights and women’s rights - fixed.

Racism - ongoing

The level of privelege and naivety you’re showing here is telling.

Maybe try asking a gay person or a woman if they think those issues are done (or even just check some DV stats). We’ve made progress absolutely no question. Perhaps we should reflect on that progress more often, I’ve got no issue with that but suggesting they are “done” or “mostly fixed” is genuinely one of the dumbest tales I’ve seen on big footy for quite some time.


I think you're downplaying the progress made with regards to gay rights.

My 10 year old son is part of a drama club after school. They're making a film then renting out a Hoyts cinema to show it at the end of the year. My son is beside himself with excitement. I was practicing his lines with him the other day and one of the lines he basically says that one of the other boys is "dreamy". It comes after a few girls say that about the same guy. My son said apparently the part was originally written as a female character but because of the split of boys to girls they changed it. They didn't change that line though. The guy that wrote the script is gay.

I got an email from the kid's school the other day saying the kids can wear some purple on an upcoming day to support the lgbtqia+ community.

I recently went on the website of my old high school in Sydney. There was a lot on the site about supporting gay students. One of the teacher's assistants was a guy in full makeup.

The amount of kids movies with gay characters is a thing. Cartoons etc.

You make a comment like doth protest too much which is a typical passive aggressive reaction.

My best mate for 10 years was gay. The banter we had was brutal... just like with all my mates. I've always considered myself left leaning but as has been stated... the left has gone batsh*t crazy. It's now more about forcing the way they think everyone should behave down everyone's throat.

If you want to admit there is a sudanese crime problem in certain parts of Melbourne you're a racist.

It's getting that way if you're not ready to suck a d*ck you're a raging homophobe.

How dare you not conform to what the left are saying are the new rules regarding gender.

The thing is... most people really don't care who someone else is f*cking. Once an afl player comes out there'll be a bit of fluff around it and then people will move on.
 
Women’s rights? What rights don’t they have?
Depends where you’re talking about.

The right to effective healthcare in the states (which Berg has hand waved away as an “outlier”). The right to career progression if they start a family, depending on your thoughts on DV the right to safety in the home.

If you think women are treated equally in society I’d suggest you have a chat with some women in your life.
 
I think you're downplaying the progress made with regards to gay rights.

My 10 year old son is part of a drama club after school. They're making a film then renting out a Hoyts cinema to show it at the end of the year. My son is beside himself with excitement. I was practicing his lines with him the other day and one of the lines he basically says that one of the other boys is "dreamy". It comes after a few girls say that about the same guy. My son said apparently the part was originally written as a female character but because of the split of boys to girls they changed it. They didn't change that line though. The guy that wrote the script is gay.

I got an email from the kid's school the other day saying the kids can wear some purple on an upcoming day to support the lgbtqia+ community.

I recently went on the website of my old high school in Sydney. There was a lot on the site about supporting gay students. One of the teacher's assistants was a guy in full makeup.

The amount of kids movies with gay characters is a thing. Cartoons etc.

You make a comment like doth protest too much which is a typical passive aggressive reaction.

My best mate for 10 years was gay. The banter we had was brutal... just like with all my mates. I've always considered myself left leaning but as has been stated... the left has gone batsh*t crazy. It's now more about forcing the way they think everyone should behave down everyone's throat.

If you want to admit there is a sudanese crime problem in certain parts of Melbourne you're a racist.

It's getting that way if you're not ready to suck a d*ck you're a raging homophobe.

How dare you not conform to what the left are saying are the new rules regarding gender.

The thing is... most people really don't care who someone else is f*cking. Once an afl player comes out there'll be a bit of fluff around it and then people will move on.
The post you quoted from me acknowledges that we’ve made progress (significant at that) and that we probably should reflect on it more often but the poster I’m engaging with has said that homophobia is fixed and doesn’t exist anymore.

We’ve made progress absolutely, but there’s still along way to go.
 
Depends where you’re talking about.

The right to effective healthcare in the states (which Berg has hand waved away as an “outlier”). The right to career progression if they start a family, depending on your thoughts on DV the right to safety in the home.

If you think women are treated equally in society I’d suggest you have a chat with some women in your life.
I thought we were only focusing on Australia? Or is that only when it suits the argument?

Women are treated better in a lot of cases, and certainly not “equally”, I’m lucky the women in my life are deeper than a puddle so I love discussing complex and misrepresented topics with them.
 
I actually CBFd with this. It’s not the SRP board and I had no intention of becoming the lone left wing nut job voice.

Continue on if you like, I can’t see any good to come from the convo so I’ll see myself out.

You’re not alone.

You’re just choosing to match energy levels.

Most on here will pass by these conversations and continue to live with kindness and generosity and inclusion in their hearts.

Sometimes it feels like society is losing the battle, but Bergholt is right when he says we aren’t.

You’re right when you say it hasn’t gone away too. The truth is it never will, such is the flaw in humankind.

Like vaping is to smoking, these antiquated attitudes always reinvent themselves from time to time.

But I see you man.
 
I actually CBFd with this. It’s not the SRP board and I had no intention of becoming the lone left wing nut job voice.

Continue on if you like, I can’t see any good to come from the convo so I’ll see myself out.


Yeah, the extremes on both sides are nutters. You can be centrist and acknowledge that there is still a way to go without going over the top. Most people just want others to treat them well and compete on a level playing field. It's not a hard concept and people making it a culture war are more interested in a fight than anything else. The whole extreme sides thing is a massive distraction anyway. While we fight based on manufactured teams the corporate world has taken control of politics and systems and are milking us.
 
I thought we were only focusing on Australia? Or is that only when it suits the argument?

Women are treated better in a lot of cases, and certainly not “equally”, I’m lucky the women in my life are deeper than a puddle so I love discussing complex and misrepresented topics with them.
Not for nothing but I didn’t bring the US into it, Berg did so I addressed it, wasn’t something I introduced to suit my argument.
 
Not for nothing but I didn’t bring the US into it, Berg did so I addressed it, wasn’t something I introduced to suit my argument.

You should have been here for the trump presidency.

It was a blast.
 

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The level of privelege and naivety you’re showing here is telling.

Nah, just perspective. Of course I have privilege, but that doesn't mean I'm not in a position to talk about these issues. I've put in a lot of effort in my life to inform myself on them, rather than just skating over the surface of what the media or facebook or whatever tells me. Outrage is the easy reaction but not generally a productive one - the right way to make sustainable change is much more nuanced than that.
 
Round 2 will be insane

Anthony Hudson voice
“Who would have thought the sequel would be just as good as the original?!”

At least the conspiracy theory links have improved in their production quality. Some are almost watchable.

Almost.
 
Nah, just perspective. Of course I have privilege, but that doesn't mean I'm not in a position to talk about these issues. I've put in a lot of effort in my life to inform myself on them, rather than just skating over the surface of what the media or facebook or whatever tells me. Outrage is the easy reaction but not generally a productive one - the right way to make sustainable change is much more nuanced than that.
Except you’re not advocating for sustainable change you said that three major current issues are fixed and done, no further action needed.

I’m not outraged more perplexed by someone who seems to understand that there are ongoing issues advocating for absolutely nothing to be done about them.

Could just be a language thing but I’m not misrepresenting what you said.
 
You’ll have to be more specific

It’s been hilarious seeing Biden plumb depths never before seen, and nobody bat an eyelid hahaha.
Hoping it’s RFK v Trump so it’s a win/win!

I’m over that.

I’d like to see Andrew Tate bust out of jail, or at least use his inordinate wealth to bribe his way out, so he can avenge his beating at the hands of Greta ‘ThugLife’ Thunberg.
 
I’m over that.

I’d like to see Andrew Tate bust out of jail, or at least use his inordinate wealth to bribe his way out, so he can avenge his beating at the hands of Greta ‘ThugLife’ Thunberg.

Whoops shouldn’t have said hands.

At the thumbs of Greta Thugberg.
 
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