F1 The Wash Up - Previous 2024 Race Weekends

[juice t]

Let's not forget this isn't the first time a car has been DQ'ed as a result of post-race scrutineering.

Vettel lost 2nd place in the 2021 Hungarian GP because he didn't have enough fuel left in the car. Cars are required to provide a sample of at least 1.0 L for scrutineering (presumably to verify that the fuel hasn't been doctored). Vettel's car only had 0.3 L left in the tank, so he was DQ'ed.

Hamilton & LeClerc were both DQ'ed from the 2023 USA GP, after they were ruled to have excessive wear on a wooden plank underneath the car.

Further back there was also the infamous incident of BAR using a second fuel tank as ballast (Approx 15L of fuel) to save weight in San Marino (2005 when Button was 3rd and Sato was 5th)

Apparently it was somewhere close to 5kg underweight once all the fuel was drained (Enormous in the days of refueling)

Eventually the FIA got their way and both cars were disqualified and the team was lucky to get away with a 2-race ban

 

[Vader]

Going a bit slower would have taken less rubber off of his tires would it not?

Maybe a bit... Probably not to the tune of 1.5 kg. In any case, his pace at the end was dictated by Hamilton & Piastri.

 

[Festerz]

Daniel and Max have always had a bromance. It is more that Lando joined in on it.

I saw a post on the F1 Reddit that IIRC Lando, Daniel, and Charles flew to Spa together but I can't remember if it was on Max's jet or not.

Yeah, earlier this year during one of those stupid quiz like interviews they run during the Sky F1 weekend coverage they asked a few drivers who were their besties in the paddock and Max quickly answered DannyRic before naming his No. 2.

Genuinely surprised me given their history but that history is history from long ago.

And no surprises that Hamilton names Dan as he closest friend in the paddock as well.

I reckon Dan's personality in an ultra competitive elite and closeted environment is unique. It would make him the sort of easy to talk to and genuine character who has a deep understanding of the sport others would gravitate to for friendship and trusted reflection and advice, especially as he no longer became a championship threat.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Zero chance he's there next year now

Next year?

Checo won't be there next race after the Summer break.

Just a question of whom takes his seat.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Next year?

Checo won't be there next race after the Summer break.

Just a question of whom takes his seat.

Question could even be answered in the next few hours.

 

[Barrybran]

Question could even be answered in the next few hours.

You'd think it would be. Rip the bandaid off. Let everyone get on with their summer.

 

[Festerz]

Next year?

Checo won't be there next race after the Summer break.

Just a question of whom takes his seat.

Agree.

In my view the only thing that will save Checo from that happening before season end is politics. Specifically the fact that the Mexican Grand Prix is after the break, followed by the Brazilian and Las Vegas races. The backlash from sacking Checo will likely be immense at those events.

And the American market is playing an ever greater role in the commercial politics of F1.

Still, I doubt it will be enough to counter the hard facts of Checos' on-track failures. I just hope Christian Horner has some good body guards for his next Mexico City trip.

 

[Iceman!]

Yes, but he finished the race in 2nd.

But he was first of all the drivers who met the regulations, he deserved the win.

 

[Black_White]

Just catching up on the race.
How salty was Lewis in the cool down room?
Never said a word, particularly when Russell came in. Kept wiping his face with the towel to avoid any contact whatsoever.

 

[Black_White]

It's the mass of the car, not the mass of the driver, which has caused them problems here. The drivers do get weighed at the end of each race, so presumably there's a second weight rule as well - but that one hasn't been broken.

Yes, they can add weights to the bottom of a car to bring it up to standard - but it needs to be at the minimum weight during at all times during competition (i.e. qualifying & race - not free practice).

The mass of the driver is important as it is part of the minimum weight. Both car and driver combined results in the total weight for compliance.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/why-do-f1-drivers-get-weighed-and-how-does-scrutineering-work/10586837/#:~:text=The%20mass%20of%20an%20F1,the%20minimum%20requirement%20for%20both.

The mass of an F1 car also includes the driver, so their weight must be known because two weights can then be added up to ensure teams have reached the minimum requirement for both.

 

[Barrybran]

Just catching up on the race.
How salty was Lewis in the cool down room?
Never said a word, particularly when Russell came in. Kept wiping his face with the towel to avoid any contact whatsoever.

Lewis drove a hell of a race but shit like this is why he's a bit of a diva:

“You have to put your faith in the people that you work with so I put my faith in my strategist,” he told Viaplay. “I should be able to lean on him fully. I told him that the tyres were fine and they called me in. Did I know that I was at risk of getting one-stopped by my team-mate? They didn’t tell me that."

 

[Black_White]

Lewis drove a hell of a race but shit like this is why he's a bit of a diva:

“You have to put your faith in the people that you work with so I put my faith in my strategist,” he told Viaplay. “I should be able to lean on him fully. I told him that the tyres were fine and they called me in. Did I know that I was at risk of getting one-stopped by my team-mate? They didn’t tell me that."

Or maybe he just realised that Merc have their mojo back. And maybe his best chance at #8 is not at Ferrari?

 

[Barrybran]

Or maybe he just realised that Merc have their mojo back. And maybe his best chance at #8 is not at Ferrari?

Even if he stayed at Mercedes, you don't speak shit about your strategist like that. It's not like he got pasta guns yesterday.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Even if he stayed at Mercedes, you don't speak shit about your strategist like that. It's not like he got pasta guns yesterday.

Not to mention his poor driving when behind George, running wide into La Source 3 times in a row gave him no chance of getting past him. Hardly surprising when you've seen what happens with him against quality team mates. Bottas would have just let him past.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Next year?

Checo won't be there next race after the Summer break.

Just a question of whom takes his seat.

Not sure about that.

We know marko is a max fanboi.
And we know he doesnt like checo (post race comments yday were telling).
But we know he doesnt want DR in the RB he wants a young driver in.

Horner on the other hand is a bit more pragmatic re max.
He would probably be happy to keep checo team harmony wise but his hand will get forced.
Horner doesnt want a bar of tsunoda near RB.
He very much wants DR in the RB and i dont think he wants lawson in RB (at least not yet).

So RB arent unified on what to do which means it might drag on some time.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Even if he stayed at Mercedes, you don't speak shit about your strategist like that. It's not like he got pasta guns yesterday.

Max said 100 times worse about his engineers last race (if it was tennis he would have been defaulted for conduct) and they were ok this weekend. Its just how egos in the sport go.

 

[Duck Farmer]

Genuinely surprised me given their history but that history is history from long ago.

That Azerbaijan GP seems not so long ago but I guess DR is on his 3rd team since then, as well as sitting out the better part of a season.

 

[Vader]

Not sure about that.

We know marko is a max fanboi.
And we know he doesnt like checo (post race comments yday were telling).
But we know he doesnt want DR in the RB he wants a young driver in.

Helmut doesn't want DR in the VCARB. I don't think he has any issues with having him in the Red Bull car.

** This may be me getting confused by which team is RB, which is why I use VCARB.

Horner on the other hand is a bit more pragmatic re max.
He would probably be happy to keep checo team harmony wise but his hand will get forced.
Horner doesnt want a bar of tsunoda near RB.
He very much wants DR in the RB and i dont think he wants lawson in RB (at least not yet).

Horner doesn't want Tsunoda in the Red Bull, but he has no problem with him in the VCARB (which is why I'm confused by which team you're calling RB).

I don't think either of them want Tsunoda or Lawson in the Red Bull, but it's all green lights for the VCARB.

So RB arent unified on what to do which means it might drag on some time.

Actually, I think they are unified...

• Tsunoda & Lawson in the VCARB
• Max & DR in the Red Bull
• Checo in Mexico

The risk though is that Checo's sponsorship $$$ prove too tempting, and they keep him at the expense of DR (who ends up nowhere) - but Checo's poor performances are really forcing their hands in this regard.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Helmut doesn't want DR in the VCARB. I don't think he has any issues with having him in the Red Bull car.

** This may be me getting confused by which team is RB, which is why I use VCARB.

Horner doesn't want Tsunoda in the Red Bull, but he has no problem with him in the VCARB (which is why I'm confused by which team you're calling RB).

I don't think either of them want Tsunoda or Lawson in the Red Bull, but it's all green lights for the VCARB.

Actually, I think they are unified...

• Tsunoda & Lawson in the VCARB
• Max & DR in the Red Bull
• Checo in Mexico

The risk though is that Checo's sponsorship $$$ prove too tempting, and they keep him at the expense of DR (who ends up nowhere) - but Checo's poor performances are really forcing their hands in this regard.

Yeah sorry that was a typo in my part.
I meant helmut doesnt want DR in the vcarb however im not sure he wants him at RB either.
Horner is happy to leave tsunoda where he is but wont promote him.
I agree sponsorship is a factor for sure.
I think though the bigger factor is helmut clearly wants to not lose lawson (i think horner is more ambivalent on this) and im not sure he sees a future for DR anywhere past this year. Whereas horner values DRs technical knowledge and wants to keep him if he can.
So theres disconnect there.
Waiting til the end of the year allows them to wait and see if lawson gets other offers before they decide to keep him or let him go to anotjer team. It also allows them to see if DR is worth another 12months or retirement.
The biggest reason to move now would be if they think checo wont score points and the constructors is under threat. In which case you move him now and put DR in for 10 races to try and get more points.

But if they think the constructors is safe they might just wait til years end. Theres lots going on there.

 

[Iceman!]

Or maybe he just realised that Merc have their mojo back. And maybe his best chance at #8 is not at Ferrari?

I think it is premature to be suggesting that, Merc have found some form but i think the gap between them and Ferrari isn't that large. We have seen Red Bull looks unbeatable early, Ferrari looking like potentially the next quickest, then Mclaren surprised everyone and cemented themselves as top 2 and arguable 1 and now Merc making a charge.

I don't think we can confidently say either Merc or Ferrari is a better chance for him to get a title going forward.

 

[Vader]

I've been thinking about whether or not McLaren cost themselves the win by not one-stopping Oscar...

It's highly likely, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, that he would have won with a one-stop strategy. It's likely that Hamilton would have chased hard, and Russell wouldn't have stood in his way, but we'll never know the outcome of that battle. Piastri would have been a further 5 seconds up the road from Russell, so it would have been a major challenge, even if Hamilton put in a lot of "Hammer Time".

However, this would have been a high risk strategy. Mercedes had the ability to mitigate that risk, because they had Hamilton in a position to win if the strategy fell apart for Russell. McLaren didn't have that option, with Lando stuck in traffic behind LeClerc and Verstappen. For Mercedes it was a case of win with driver A, or win with driver B. For McLaren it would have been win with driver A, or have both drivers finish mid-pack.

To give you an idea of how big a risk it was, Toto Wolff said they were expecting Russell to finish 5th when they switched to the one-stop strategy. Presumably they had run race simulations on their computer, and that was the conclusion they reached. One can only assume that McLaren's race simulations drew a similar conclusion.

The game changer here was the tyre wear, which was much lower than anyone was expecting. The tyres didn't wear out anywhere near as much as people were expecting (both teams & commentators), which allowed Russell to maintain a much higher than expected pace throughout the race. Neither McLaren or Mercedes had run hards during the practice sessions, so they had no data for predicting the tyre wear, other than the data from Pirelli, which turned out to be wrong. McLaren didn't realise just how well the tyres were doing until they pulled them off Oscar's car, by which time it was too late.

Short version... A one-stop strategy probably would have won the race for Oscar, but it was a high risk strategy, and McLaren's track position meant that they were unable/unwilling to take that risk. It worked because tyre degradation was much lower than anyone expected, something which wasn't known until after Oscar's 2nd stop.

 

[Vader]

Correction to my previous post...

Wolff said they were predicting a 5th placed finish if they pitted Russell for a 2nd time, with a predicted range of 1-5 if they didn't. They basically had nothing to lose by not pitting him.

As for why the other front runners didn't do it... A lot of it boils down to undercutting & covering. Once the first driver/team pulled the trigger, the rest of them responded almost automatically.

Here are Andrea Stella's thoughts on one-stopping Piastri:

"Yes, we considered that," McLaren team principal Andrea Stella explained. "We were not adamant that it was going to work.

"For us it was pretty extreme, because if you commit to this and it doesn't work, you can probably screw up a race day. It can become very, very painful because then it's too late to pit and therefore you may lose a lot of positions."

Source: https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/why-other-top-teams-slept-on-russells-spa-one-stopper/10640246/

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Checo apparently staying at Red Bull for the rest of the year according to reports just out.

 

[Vader]

Checo apparently staying at Red Bull for the rest of the year according to reports just out.

Being discussed extensively in the general F1 thread.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Being discussed extensively in the general F1 thread.

Yeah just saw that.