Meltdown The Western Bulldog's success is built on a lie (Trigger Warning)...

[bontshow]

Back onto the thread topic, and I'll ask again - do you guys think Brendan McCartney and his game plan would have won the Dogs a premiership in 2016 with this same list?

No, but Hawthorn would never have won a flag with him either

Does the Dogs list, in your opinion, stack up to the lists of those consistently high-placing teams?

Not yet. We won the flag with the 5th youngest side in the league, ask me again in 5 years

 

[Hawk_francais]

This thread is great. Soak it up, dogs fans - this bitterness doesn't last forever.

Rules are the same for everyone.

 

[Plugger35]

This thread is great. Soak it up, dogs fans - this bitterness doesn't last forever.

Rules are the same for everyone.

The rules might be the same for everyone but that doesn't mean they're enforced fairly.

Like Hawthorn players getting away with chip kicks less than 15 metres that are paid marks while St Kilda players kicks over 15 metres are called play on.

 

[Hawk_francais]

The rules might be the same for everyone but that doesn't mean they're enforced fairly.

Like Hawthorn players getting away with chip kicks less than 15 metres that are paid marks while St Kilda players kicks over 15 metres are called play on.

Or maybe bitterness lasts a little longer than I thought...

 

[matt_bas]

I'm not sure if the OP is serious or not. Bulldogs won because they were the best team in the Finals. They were damn hungry and wanted it more than everyone they played. A win in perth when everyone had written them off would have given them confidence they could win anywhere.

 

[tazaa]

Forgetting the throwing and ducking and impeding the ruck - they went to Perth, knocked off the reigning premier at home, probably be the last team in a while to win in Western Sydney and then got the job done on the big stage.
One win or two is a fluke.
Can't fluke a months worth.
They showed every team that finishing 7th and travelling is no excuse anymore.
Yes they got lucky, even on the big stage but they made more of their chances than leaving it to bullshit.

Other teams just need to do better.

 

[hoianbulldog]

The case has been made. Can't we all agree that last years premiership was illegitimate and move on?

Does that make us bastards?

 

[Reality Check!]

So despite including a trigger warning, snowflakes STILL are on here defending the bulldogs gameplay, when the thread wasn't even an attack on them. Can we get back on topic here?

 

[TiAn_]

No worries, I understand that, it was a pretty epic melt all things considered.

Everybody says dumb shit on occasions, and I've owned what I said and admitted it was silly. If you guys feel the need to keep flogging the dead horse every time I post in a thread about the Dogs, that's your right I guess, but I'm not losing sleep over it! I just wanna talk about footy and have a good time, it's only the internet after all!

Back onto the thread topic, and I'll ask again - do you guys think Brendan McCartney and his game plan would have won the Dogs a premiership in 2016 with this same list?

While Clarkson is a master coach, I feel like that Hawks team of the past 4-5 years would have been pretty successful even under a lesser coach simply due to the amount of talent they had on the list and their ability to use the ball so well by foot, and same goes for the amazing Cats teams of the late 00's.

Does the Dogs list, in your opinion, stack up to the lists of those consistently high-placing teams?

McCartney couldn't have coached any team to a flag, so it's a dumb question.

What does that, or the quality of our list, have to do with the OP? This thread is about our premiership being won because we lied about something, possibly to the umpires.

You're still grinding your old axe, except now it's just a nub on a handle.

 

[TiAn_]

So despite including a trigger warning, snowflakes STILL are on here defending the bulldogs gameplay, when the thread wasn't even an attack on them. Can we get back on topic here?

Despite the warning, everyone still wants to see you being triggered.

Back on topic - which lie the Bulldogs told was the worst? Was it Easton Wood blatantly lying in front of thousands?:

 

[Reality Check!]

Despite the warning, everyone still wants to see you being triggered.

Back on topic - which lie the Bulldogs told was the worst? Was it Easton Wood blatantly lying in front of thousands?:

View attachment 343127

Precious! No one cares that the bulldogs won, stay on topic.

 

[Kwality]

I'll be proven right. Might not happen this year, or in the same fashion that I mentioned. But there's no denying that everyone else is starting to pick up on it, and the honeymoon of the underdog winning the big one has come to an end.

The AFL themselves conceded that the umpiring was not up to standard, so now the magnifying glass will be right on the dogs this year. Just remember where you heard it first.

Remember the supposed 'Crow throw', it was just an excuse too ....

 

[TiAn_]

Precious! No one cares that the bulldogs won, stay on topic.

The topic is the Bulldogs lying being built on success, isn't it?

It's hard to know exactly, with you being a seventh dan incoherent salt merchant.

 

[Doss]

So in summary Footscray were smarter than others in exploiting the interpretation of the rules?

That doesn't lessen their flag, it makes them smarter than everyone else was in 2016.

And for that - good on them.

 

[perplexed]

Does that make us bastards?

Loveable ones

 

[X_box_X]

If you were a GWS or Sydney fan watching the finals against the Bulldogs, you would probably have been tearing your hair out seeing the players in red white and blue be brought down, only to slap it out or deftly drop it to a running teammate. It reminds me of Kevin Bartlett's running bounces when he knew he was about to be tackled. I'm not doubting the talent on the Bulldog's team, and the rebuild under Beveridge has been incredible. But I can't help but think their success last year was built on exploiting the grey areas of disposals by hand. Ironically Hawthorn cops a lot of bashing for having a good go from the umpires, but their premierships were built on precision passing with elite foot skills. I won't deny that at times a few of their disposals by hand have been dubious, but that goes for every team. The Bulldogs are simply capitalising on this, and you can't deny it when you go back and watch their games last season.

So what is to be done? Well we need to more broadly define what an illegal disposal actually is, because let's face it, this is currently the only sport where commentators will say 'WOW what a great fumble!' Here are my suggestions...


- Knocking the ball with an open palm is always illegal, if not in a ruck contest OR if the ball cannot be marked. If a player is uncontested and slaps the ball instead of marking it, play on. The only exception is if you manage to recover the ball yourself. A player is a allowed to slap the ball to get it to sit up better for him, but if a teammate recovers it first then a free kick is awarded to the opposition.

- Placing the ball on the ground and leaving it there, even when not being tackled is dropping the ball.

- If a player has possession for at least ONE second and loses the ball in a tackle it is considered dropped, regardless whether the defending player slapped it out of him or not. If the ball didn't come out straight away in the tackle and the player is immobile the umpire goes red hot on a ball up.


I know any mention of rule changes is going to be open with heavy resistance and criticism, and I'm open to the fact that these changes might make the game worse instead of better. I'm just of the opinion that the grey is overshadowing the black and white of this particular rule, and I won't be surprised if the Bulldogs once again exploit this to meme themselves into another premiership.

 

[QuietB]

These 'specific' cases are ruck contests or if the ball is there to be marked or spoiling a mark. The problem we have now is that the Bulldogs are slapping/scooping to teammates off the ground. Might as well make throwing legal.

The AFL has not been serious about incorrect disposal for decades. Everyone does it. When they are going well Essendon do it with the best of them - laying balls off to passing teammates, placing the ball on the ground for someone else to take whatever.

All the dogs did was exploit what the AFL have fostered.

Good on them.

 

[Gibbke]

A lie? I knew it. NASA has the real video of last year's semi, which we won...

 

[NarrativeWatch]

RC still trying to flog this horse, which is as dead as his 'aborted child'

 

[Bokonon_]

The AFL has not been serious about incorrect disposal for decades. Everyone does it. When they are going well Essendon do it with the best of them - laying balls off to passing teammates, placing the ball on the ground for someone else to take whatever.

All the dogs did was exploit what the AFL have fostered.

Good on them.

Yeah
But I think the AFL is right ( come at me), if you dont give margin to the player in posession I fear it would have a horrible effect on the spectacle. I can imagine a scenario where players avoid posession in tight situations becuase the percentage play is to be tackler.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Despite the warning, everyone still wants to see you being triggered.

Back on topic - which lie the Bulldogs told was the worst? Was it Easton Wood blatantly lying in front of thousands?:

View attachment 343127

He stole that move from Stratton. Outrageous!

 

[QuietB]

Yeah
But I think the AFL is right ( come at me), if you dont give margin to the player in posession I fear it would have a horrible effect on the spectacle. I can imagine a scenario where players avoid posession in tight situations becuase the percentage play is to be tackler.

I personally hate it.

Players are trained to release the ball when it suits and to hold it in when it doesn't. And all clubs do it. It is a blight on the game.

The rules should be dead simple;

1. To dispose of the ball you need to handball it (with a closed fist) or kick it.
   • If you drop it it is a free kick to the opposition
   • If you lay it on the ground it is a free kick to the opposition
   • If it spills free it is a free kick to the opposition - players should be responsible for ball security.
2. If you hold onto the ball but had no prior opportunity to dispose it then it is a ball up
3. If you hold onto the ball and did have prior opportunity to dispose of it then it is a free kick to the opposition.

So all an umpire has to decide is if they hold onto it was their prior? And if they disposed of it did they handball or kick it.

It is that simple.

 

[Bokonon_]

I personally hate it.

Players are trained to release the ball when it suits and to hold it in when it doesn't. And all clubs do it. It is a blight on the game.

The rules should be dead simple;

1. To dispose of the ball you need to handball it (with a closed fist) or kick it.
   • If you drop it it is a free kick to the opposition
   • If you lay it on the ground it is a free kick to the opposition
   • If it spills free it is a free kick to the opposition - players should be responsible for ball security.
2. If you hold onto the ball but had no prior opportunity to dispose it then it is a ball up
3. If you hold onto the ball and did have prior opportunity to dispose of it then it is a free kick to the opposition.

So all an umpire has to decide is if they hold onto it was their prior? And if they disposed of it did they handball or kick it.

It is that simple.

Fair enough
It's just an opinion, not saying your wrong. I get when an umpire has to make subjective judgements to improve the spectacle in tight or determine intent in marking contests it's not ideal. Perhaps it would be better to be transparent and throws in a limited way in contests somehow?
It's an issue in codes that have a real contest for the ball and I definitely dont want it to go. Their are parallels with Rugby where the rules a very technical around rucks, and it can and does ruin the spectacle when refs are too pedantic.
In AFL interpretations are biased to not ruining the spectacle and I like that.

 

[Golden_6]

I personally hate it.

Players are trained to release the ball when it suits and to hold it in when it doesn't. And all clubs do it. It is a blight on the game.

The rules should be dead simple;

1. To dispose of the ball you need to handball it (with a closed fist) or kick it.
   • If you drop it it is a free kick to the opposition
   • If you lay it on the ground it is a free kick to the opposition
   • If it spills free it is a free kick to the opposition - players should be responsible for ball security.
2. If you hold onto the ball but had no prior opportunity to dispose it then it is a ball up
3. If you hold onto the ball and did have prior opportunity to dispose of it then it is a free kick to the opposition.

So all an umpire has to decide is if they hold onto it was their prior? And if they disposed of it did they handball or kick it.

It is that simple.

I don't think this will ever change, nor will the AFL want it to. I can see them cracking down on the more obvious 'throws' but never the ball spilling out in a tackle. The AFL want less stoppages and less free kicks, all this does is create more.

The solution is quite simple to me, and that is to do nothing. Every club has the 'opportunity' to do this, so theoretically there is no advantage to any one team.

 

[rooboy29]

Im over the bulldogs and there premiership but jeez this is really clutching at straws! Haha one of the worst examples ive seen of trying to bring down a team amd there success