Meltdown The Western Bulldog's success is built on a lie (Trigger Warning)...

[Frank Thring]

Should I change it to make it less sensitive to Western Bulldogs fans?

This is how unbelievable the Bulldogs have become. They always wanted to be that team everyone hates, and now they are getting criticism for winning, their fans are on the defensive. I'm not afraid to admit the Bombers exploited the salary cap, so did every other club that had money we just had better success.
I am not even saying the Bulldogs should be stripped of their premiership as that would be ridiculous. But the denial coming from the Bulldog fans is hilarious. I'm tipping a lot of hurt feelings when the umpires become bolder on illegal disposals and the game plan needs a complete reboot...

What are you talking about, the real issue here is your misleading and inappropriate thread title. The rest has been well argued by Bullies posters.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

What is the lie?

 

[Smooth Banana]

If you were a GWS or Sydney fan watching the finals against the Bulldogs, you would probably have been tearing your hair out seeing the players in red white and blue be brought down, only to slap it out or deftly drop it to a running teammate. It reminds me of Kevin Bartlett's running bounces when he knew he was about to be tackled. I'm not doubting the talent on the Bulldog's team, and the rebuild under Beveridge has been incredible. But I can't help but think their success last year was built on exploiting the grey areas of disposals by hand. Ironically Hawthorn cops a lot of bashing for having a good go from the umpires, but their premierships were built on precision passing with elite foot skills. I won't deny that at times a few of their disposals by hand have been dubious, but that goes for every team. The Bulldogs are simply capitalising on this, and you can't deny it when you go back and watch their games last season.

So what is to be done? Well we need to more broadly define what an illegal disposal actually is, because let's face it, this is currently the only sport where commentators will say 'WOW what a great fumble!' Here are my suggestions...


- Knocking the ball with an open palm is always illegal, if not in a ruck contest OR if the ball cannot be marked. If a player is uncontested and slaps the ball instead of marking it, play on. The only exception is if you manage to recover the ball yourself. A player is a allowed to slap the ball to get it to sit up better for him, but if a teammate recovers it first then a free kick is awarded to the opposition.

- Placing the ball on the ground and leaving it there, even when not being tackled is dropping the ball.

- If a player has possession for at least ONE second and loses the ball in a tackle it is considered dropped, regardless whether the defending player slapped it out of him or not. If the ball didn't come out straight away in the tackle and the player is immobile the umpire goes red hot on a ball up.


I know any mention of rule changes is going to be open with heavy resistance and criticism, and I'm open to the fact that these changes might make the game worse instead of better. I'm just of the opinion that the grey is overshadowing the black and white of this particular rule, and I won't be surprised if the Bulldogs once again exploit this to meme themselves into another premiership.

 

[Substance]

Didnt your club change its trading name for dollars?

Wouldnt really be bagging someone elses club for caring about cash.

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False equivalency. How does changing a trading name mean you care more about money than the game?

 

[Colonial]

False equivalency. How does changing a trading name mean you care more about money than the game?

It was done to broaden the reach of your club to gain more money and fans.

As i wrote in my 1st post am over this as well as your fans. But just found it amusing when 1 of you has a go at another club for caring about money.

If it wasnt to do with money then we would still have Footscray as the name instead of Western.

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[Substance]

It was done to broaden the reach of your club to gain more money and fans.

As i wrote in my 1st post am over this as well as your fans. But just found it amusing when 1 of you has a go at another club for caring about money.

If it wasnt to do with money then we would still have Footscray as the name instead of Western.

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He didn't go at another club for caring about money. Go read the post chain again. It was about caring more about money than bringing the game into disrepute.

 

[compact72]

False equivalency. How does changing a trading name mean you care more about money than the game?

It was done to broaden the reach of your club to gain more money and fans.

As i wrote in my 1st post am over this as well as your fans. But just found it amusing when 1 of you has a go at another club for caring about money.

If it wasnt to do with money then we would still have Footscray as the name instead of Western.

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Do we seriously have to turn this thread into another Bulldogs vs GWS shit fight?

Stick to the topic - Our success was built on a lie

 

[Colonial]

Do we seriously have to turn this thread into another Bulldogs vs GWS shit fight?

Stick to the topic - Our success was built on a lie

My apologies.

Continue.

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[Dogs_R_Us]

Do we seriously have to turn this thread into another Bulldogs vs GWS shit fight?

Stick to the topic - Our success was built on a lie

And we want to know what the lie was.

 

[Dez!]

All of my life I have waited for the Bullies to win a Premiership and for supporters of other teams to resent and attempt to belittle my club because they can't come to terms with its success. Mission accomplished...

So your mission was to sit and wait?

 

[Leeda]

Programmable interference. In other words, it reminds people that no one has any control over anything or at least will
decide that one winner will have to work even harder the next year to maintain their influence.

even I thought it was not a lie but a retrospective method of willingness to achieve greatness.

some of us are greater than others and others are lesser than the multitude of morons we decide to inform.

 

[Seedsfan]

The OP sounds like Eddie Jones call for the rules to be changed after the Poms almost lost to the Italians at the 6 nations

 

[jdz101]

What is the lie?

Whatever it is....bont is the truth

 

[Badesumofu]

- Knocking the ball with an open palm is always illegal, if not in a ruck contest OR if the ball cannot be marked. If a player is uncontested and slaps the ball instead of marking it, play on. The only exception is if you manage to recover the ball yourself. A player is a allowed to slap the ball to get it to sit up better for him, but if a teammate recovers it first then a free kick is awarded to the opposition.

Idiotic. Tapping the ball to a team-mate in a better position is a valid tactic.

- Placing the ball on the ground and leaving it there, even when not being tackled is dropping the ball.

That doesn't even make sense given that there is no rule against dropping the ball in the first place. There is a rule about correctly disposing of the ball when you are tackled but it doesn't relevant here.

- If a player has possession for at least ONE second and loses the ball in a tackle it is considered dropped, regardless whether the defending player slapped it out of him or not. If the ball didn't come out straight away in the tackle and the player is immobile the umpire goes red hot on a ball up.

Again, there is no rule against dropping the ball. The rule is that if you are tackled you have to dispose of it correctly (either a kick or handpass) if you had opportunity prior to being tackled. So talking about what is or is not considered dropping the ball isn't actually something that makes any sense. Yes, if you get tackled and then drop the ball it is a free against, but it is a free because you did something other than dispose correctly, not specifically because you dropped it.

I'm not sure it makes any sense to say it should be a free if a player who did not have prior opportunity is tackled, is unable to dispose of the ball because it is pinned, and then the tackler just knocks the ball free. Your whole post seems to totally ignore prior opportunity, in fact.

 

[Reality Check!]

"What is the lie"

When you deliberately play the game in an illegal fashion hoping the umpire won't notice you are lying with your actions. Much like Buddy's "natural arc" which the AFL adjusted the rules for to allow him to do it. Again I'm not saying the Bulldog's are the only team to do it, they just go harder at it than anyone else and have a whole game plan based around it. You pick out the dropped balls, the throws and they fall back into the pack of being just a 'good team'. This is the lie, and the delusion that has crept in to the minds of every Bulldog's fan and fairytale apologists on this board.

 

[darthbards]

I do think there could be some merit if some opposition fans think our club has become slightly precious since our magnificent premiership,or maybe we were always precious and nobody really noticed.

But even in saying that,the thread title needs to be changed. It's one thing that it's becoming difficult to separate the main board comments from the bay these days,but the title here is probably a bit much. The op itself is perfectly fine I guess.

 

[Rob]

People would adjust. The fact that "it came out in the tackle" is even a thing is a joke. If it came out in the tackle, reward the tackler.

Of course players would adjust, but it would change the way the game is played significantly. Players would not take possession of the ball in the clinches and a lot less risks would be taken.

IMO it would make the game a lot worse. What you're suggesting is that the player that gets to the ball first, is immediately tackled and has no prior opportunity to dispose of it should be penalised. That's a huge culture change for a game that traditionally rewards the ball winner.

 

[dergert]

Essendon supporter accusing other team of cheating. Wot?

 

[maddog37]

Someone call Mulder and Scully! The truth is out there......

 

[Reality Check!]

Firstly thank you for actually providing well thought out criticism of my suggestions.

Idiotic. Tapping the ball to a team-mate in a better position is a valid tactic.

The problem is 'tapping' and 'scooping' the ball have blurred into one due to the fast pace of the game. Take the Liam Picken scoop in the last quarter, do we really want to see more of that? Disposals by hand only come through a fist, why can't this simply be a consistent rule to remove the doubt from the umpire's mind?

That doesn't even make sense given that there is no rule against dropping the ball in the first place. There is a rule about correctly disposing of the ball when you are tackled but it doesn't relevant here.

Once again we don't see any consistency with this rule. Player's can't hold the ball in, so they feed it through their legs like they're laying an egg. The Bulldogs have mastered this art and you'll see a running team mate scoop up the egg It's an ugly look and makes the tackler's work count for nothing.

Again, there is no rule against dropping the ball. The rule is that if you are tackled you have to dispose of it correctly (either a kick or handpass) if you had opportunity prior to being tackled. So talking about what is or is not considered dropping the ball isn't actually something that makes any sense. Yes, if you get tackled and then drop the ball it is a free against, but it is a free because you did something other than dispose correctly, not specifically because you dropped it.

Again the problem is the consistency. There are so many occasions where a player is tackled and he throws it to a running teammate in the guise of a fumble.

I'm not sure it makes any sense to say it should be a free if a player who did not have prior opportunity is tackled, is unable to dispose of the ball because it is pinned, and then the tackler just knocks the ball free. Your whole post seems to totally ignore prior opportunity, in fact.

As soon as he is pinned there should be a ball up. It's not like he grabs the ball, is tackled and then after a bit of jostling the defender slaps it out and gets a free. I agree it's a bit iffy and I'm not sure how it would go. But again what we're seeing now is professional fumbles to running teammates, that penalize the tackler rather than rewarding them.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Essendon supporter accusing other team of cheating. Wot?

Essendon is built on a lie?

 

[Shane Sheridan]

I'm convinced, take the cup off them.
Bob might have done a Jobe with Bevo's medal though.

 

[compact72]

Essendon is built on a lie?

No, they got busted

 

[master bate]

The Swans have done it for years, the Dogs just mastered their positioning around the stoppage so the quick hands or quick throws were capitalised on and then the more they got away with the more they kept shuffling the ball out.

I can't seem to find it in the rules of the game but I swear when I was a kid I was taught a legal handball had to have the ball punched from a stationary hand. So many of the overhead handballs and quick shovels of the ball would be throws if that was still the interpretation.

I'd like to see the umpires encouraged to call more throws but I don't want them too hot on holding the ball when it's knocked out in the tackle without prior opportunity.

Tackling is part of AFL football. It's not a core part of the game like rugby. Winning contested ball and moving the play on is the basis of the game.

 

[Reality Check!]

Of course players would adjust, but it would change the way the game is played significantly. Players would not take possession of the ball in the clinches and a lot less risks would be taken.

IMO it would make the game a lot worse. What you're suggesting is that the player that gets to the ball first, is immediately tackled and has no prior opportunity to dispose of it should be penalised. That's a huge culture change for a game that traditionally rewards the ball winner.

The player who gets the ball first still has the advantage. Retaining possession, disposing correctly under pressure and not fumbling it should be a key attribute of midfielders.