The Worsfold coaching situation mega-thread, part 2

[basalt]

A few other posters have regulalry posted this rumour/piece of information on here over a period of time and claiming that they personally know one or a couple of Wiley, Harris and Micale. The rumour has always been that they got sacked because the disagreed with Worsfold and questioned what he was doing ad whether the pathway he was going down with lost management and game day coaching etc was right. I am not saying i didn't believe it because i did find it to be possible and credible. But, as with everything on here when people claim inside info, i always treat it with some scepticism. But from Langdon and Hardie said tonight on sports central it sounds like that is correct. They stated that those blokes got sacked for asking too many questions and not drinking Worsfold's kool aid. When is Worsfold going to stop blaming extenal factors and sacking other people and take some responsibility for the results?

have no inside knowledge or no idea of the reasons why the assistant coaches were changed, but did notice the resultant change in body language in the coaches box.

Micale would often be seen talking, and i recall once finger pointing and both coaches clearly emotional. Since the new coaching panel has been on board the eagles coaching box is like a morgue, all grim faces, no talking, no emotion and no apparent passion.

Cringed every time the camera showed the box.

Pleased to see worsfold down on the bench for the last few games this year at least.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

chris judd - left at 24
cousins - 28 when sacked
rojo -28
hunter - 26
glass -29
kerr - 27
nicoski - 27



so an average age of what - 27 right when players are in the prime of their careers and hardly the over 30 you mentioned - only chick was over 30

3 of the players you have in your list of "retired" players are still on the list. You want to compare a list of players still on our list but who haven't played for a while with players who are actually retired at Collingwood and use it to argue that the age of our retirees is younger than those at Collingwood by including Kerr, Nicoski and Glass as retirees for us.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? If you want to talk about retirees then talk about retirees. Injury plagued players on our list ar enot retirees untill they are actually retired.

 

[kranky al]

3 of the players you have in your list of "retired" players are still on the list. You want to compare a list of players still on our list but who haven't played for a while with players who are actually retired at Collingwood and use it to argue that the age of our retirees is younger than those at Collingwood by including Kerr, Nicoski and Glass as retirees for us.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? If you want to talk about retirees then talk about retirees. Injury plagued players on our list ar enot retirees untill they are actually retired.

oh sorry - i didnt realise that these long term injured players made the team improve by not being on the field thus negating my argument that all the injuries + the retirements have a lot to do with our slide

hmm hang on - they also are somewhat older than the retired players i was talking about- perhaps i should redo my math - as they have dragged the average age up. our guys are actually even younger than the over 30's has beens you mentioned at collyflog

thankyou for your help have you got any other points you would like to make

- just in case i need more help firming up my argument

 

[Marlin01]

Although we give credits to Woosha for 'building a premiership team from the ground up', I don't think he is a master team-builder.

The fact is that we had an amazing midfield and two great KP defenders (Glass & Hunter). Our forward line was dogshit and so were a lot of our middle rung players.

If he had truly developed a champion team then we wouldn't be wooden spooners, we'd have a team of senior players who at least would be competitive. The fact that we're looking at delisting/trading the majority of our experienced players is testament to this.

So what you're saying is, he took an ordinary team to a premiership and a GF. Sounds like a pretty good coach to me.

 

[TurleyBurley]

hmm hang on - they also are somewhat older than the retired players i was talking about- perhaps i should redo my math

[pedant] Tell you what might improve the argument? Maths. This is not America, and we already have an accepted and acceptable abbreviation.

Whilst I'm at it: a lot. Two words. How is it so many people try to rhyme it with "shallot" or something? Not alot. Not allot. A lot. [/pedant]

 

[kranky al]

[pedant] Tell you what might improve the argument? Maths. This is not America, and we already have an accepted and acceptable abbreviation.

Whilst I'm at it: a lot. Two words. How is it so many people try to rhyme it with "shallot" or something? Not alot. Not allot. A lot. [/pedant]

[tongue firmly in cheek] im sorry - but that was only one calculation - so it was a math - if id done a number of different calculations then it would be the plural - maths[/tongue firmly in cheek]

 

[kranky al]

oops - how could i forget david wirrpanda - 30 years old though

 

[CursoryMercenary]

A few other posters have regulalry posted this rumour/piece of information on here over a period of time and claiming that they personally know one or a couple of Wiley, Harris and Micale. The rumour has always been that they got sacked because the disagreed with Worsfold and questioned what he was doing ad whether the pathway he was going down with lost management and game day coaching etc was right. I am not saying i didn't believe it because i did find it to be possible and credible. But, as with everything on here when people claim inside info, i always treat it with some scepticism. But from Langdon and Hardie said tonight on sports central it sounds like that is correct. They stated that those blokes got sacked for asking too many questions and not drinking Worsfold's kool aid. When is Worsfold going to stop blaming extenal factors and sacking other people and take some responsibility for the results?

Very interesting Geoffe, If I read this before last Friday's footy on the road I might have asked Wiley himself there about that.

 

[Denton52]

It's a bit rich giving credit to Worsfold for building our flag list. His first game in charge, we already had Cousins, Kerr, Judd, Embley, Fletcher, Braun, RoJo, Gardiner, Cox, Matera, Matera, Hunter, Glass, Lynch, Sampi and Wirrapunda !

God forbid if we didn't have that quality, he might've backed in Richard Taylor and Trent Carroll to take us to a flag.

What he did (along with Cousins) was to motivate and instil belief amongst a group of talented players.

His list 'building' and 'assesment' abilities have been exposed as embarrassing in the last 3-4 years after having to go back on his word countless times...

Needs a soft draw early or will be in big trouble in 2011.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

We had a great draw this season and we didn't take advantage of it. We'll get shafted next season, no MCG games, trips to tassie, probably two trips to Adelaide and a Gold Coast trip.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

We had a great draw this season and we didn't take advantage of it. We'll get shafted next season, no MCG games, trips to tassie, probably two trips to Adelaide and a Gold Coast trip.

We had an interesting draw. But we certainly avoided the numerous sunday arvo games that Freo got - i daresay that'll change next year.

Broadly speaking - we had more tough teams at home and easy teams away. Which I've stated before - if we had an improvement in form - would have seen us rocketing up the ladder. If we didn't - we;d rocket it down it.

 

[Keys]

It's a bit rich giving credit to Worsfold for building our flag list. His first game in charge, we already had Cousins, Kerr, Judd, Embley, Fletcher, Braun, RoJo, Gardiner, Cox, Matera, Matera, Hunter, Glass, Lynch, Sampi and Wirrapunda !

God forbid if we didn't have that quality, he might've backed in Richard Taylor and Trent Carroll to take us to a flag.

What he did (along with Cousins) was to motivate and instil belief amongst a group of talented players.

His list 'building' and 'assesment' abilities have been exposed as embarrassing in the last 3-4 years after having to go back on his word countless times...

Needs a soft draw early or will be in big trouble in 2011.

The bolded players weren't premiership players.

The players in italics weren't very highly thought of back in 2001 either

We had a great draw this season and we didn't take advantage of it. We'll get shafted next season, no MCG games, trips to tassie, probably two trips to Adelaide and a Gold Coast trip.

We played the better teams at Subiaco and the not so good teams away

The draw wasn't "great"

 

[TurleyBurley]

We played the better teams at Subiaco and the not so good teams away

The draw wasn't "great"

So what would be a great draw then? Us vs. Geelong underwater with our boys in scuba gear and theirs in floaties*?




*this will not limit any Selwood's attempt to get free kicks by throwing the head backward.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

So what would be a great draw then? Us vs. Geelong underwater with our boys in scuba gear and theirs in floaties*?




*this will not limit any Selwood's attempt to get free kicks by throwing the head backward.

Exactly. All this ridiculous focus on small little minutiae that is maybe 2% of the problem and completely beyond our controll and zero focus on the other 98% of the problem and is within our controll.

What difference does the draw make? You are going to play 7 of the 15 teams twice so the only difference is how many of the 8 teams you play once are hard sides vrs easy sides. Maybe if your lucky you of the 8 you play once 5 are bottom 8 sides and if you are unlucky 5 are top 8 sides. Really, whats the difference? Are people on here really saying that had we played another bottom 8 side once instead of a top 8 side that would have just turned the whole season around and it all would have been different?

The draw is not part of the problem. It's the last thing we should be worrying about or pinning the blame for our problems on.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

Tony Micale was on 6PR last night. Before he came on Langdon, Hardie and Jacko were talking about the fact that Worsfold fired him in 2008 and why. They asked Micale about it and he was initially reluctant to comment because i think these guys don't want to damage future employment opportunities in the WA footy undustry by burning bridges. But eventually when asked by Jacko what Worsfold needed to do to turn things around he very pointedly said that Worsfold needed to start taking control at the club and actually having a plan rather than muddling along and writing off all bad results from what he was doing as aberations and believing that everything will just fix itself if he waits long enough. He stressed several times that Worsfold needed to put both hands on the steering wheel and have a plan, clearly infering that at the moment he was not in control and had no plan.

 

[Bacchus]

Tony Micale was on 6PR last night. Before he came on Langdon, Hardie and Jacko were talking about the fact that Worsfold fired him in 2008 and why. They asked Micale about it and he was initially reluctant to comment because i think these guys don't want to damage future employment opportunities in the WA footy undustry by burning bridges. But eventually when asked by Jacko what Worsfold needed to do to turn things around he very pointedly said that Worsfold needed to start taking control at the club and actually having a plan rather than muddling along and writing off all bad results from what he was doing as aberations and believing that everything will just fix itself if he waits long enough. He stressed several times that Worsfold needed to put both hands on the steering wheel and have a plan, clearly infering that at the moment he was not in control and had no plan.

Interesting, that's how it looks from the outside i.e. no plan, merely hoping that things will come good in time and the fact is they probably won't. 2011 looks like being another wasted, painful year. I wish the board would put their hands on the steering wheel.

 

[gsmiths_s]

The bolded players weren't premiership players.

The players in italics weren't very highly thought of back in 2001 either





We played the better teams at Subiaco and the not so good teams away

The draw wasn't "great"

2001 draft is transitition between Worsfold & Judge.

Judd hadn't played a game, and didn't play in JW first game. He played number 2. Only game he played in WAFL.

Draft & Trades.
Bold Premiership players.
2001 - Chris Judd, Sampi, Seaby, Hanson.
2002 - Paul Johson, Brent Staker, Adam Selwood. Daniel Chick (trade)
2003 - Waters, Butler & McConnell.
2004 - Rosa, Lecras, Mitch Morton & Bradley Smith. Brett Jones (Rookie).
2005 - Shannon Hurn, Matthew Spanger. Steven Armstrong (Rookie), Priddis.

Premiership.

Sampi and Staker played in 2005 GF.
Lecras and Hurn standouts.

 

[WCEforeverman]

Stenglein was also traded into the club in 2004.

 

[TurleyBurley]

The draw is not part of the problem. It's the last thing we should be worrying about or pinning the blame for our problems on.

There's an awful lot to dislike about St. Kilda (Milne, Schneider and the players' tendency to figure in allegations relating to unsavoury relations and even sex crimes, and their hopelessly boring defensive play), but you hear an interview with Lyon or Roo, and they will say that they try to only concentrate on controlling the things in their sphere of control.

Control the controllables - total cliche, obviously. But whining about the draw like you're Collingwood is what losers do. Successful people in real life get on with it and don't say "poor me" and pout about things they can't change.

 

[tesseract]

We had a great draw this season and we didn't take advantage of it. We'll get shafted next season, no MCG games, trips to tassie, probably two trips to Adelaide and a Gold Coast trip.

I too thought WC had an excellent draw. It's just that our inexperienced line-up was unable to take advantage of it.

When WC are up and going, and most of us expected that in 2010, we would expect to win nearly all of our home games against nearly all comers. Beat some top teams due to home ground advantage, and snag a few away from home against bottom 8 teams.

So I agree with you, it was a favourable draw. Like FS said, it could've gone really well, or as it did.

 

[kranky al]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357637&page=1



read this thread - sounds like a lot of you

 

[ziad]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357637&page=1



read this thread - sounds like a lot of you

So you are saying GM was/is a Collingwood supporter?

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

So lets get this straight. The eagles and Worsfold tell Hansen that he is no longer part of the future plans for the club and won't play for us again and ask him to retire and take a full pay out. Hansen says "No, thanks John. I would rather keep going and stay on the list anyway" because he is in denial and living in a dreamworld where he just refuses to accept that his AFL career is over due to age, injuries and physical restrictions he now has and move forwards with his life.

Instead of snapping him out of this dreamworld and telling him that he really means it and that Hansen has played his last game and given that spots on our list are a finite and limited resource that we need to make full use of and therefore he is retiring whether he likes it or not, Worsfold backs down and writes off a spot on our list to keep a bloke where a decision has already been made that he won't play another game just to keep that bloke happy and allow the denial to continue.

He refuses to make decision on a player from the 04-06 era ... again. And wastes the clubs limited resources doing it. Not only that, he cuts a young key forward (and we desperately need young key forwards more than anything else on our list) we used a high draft pick to get a couple of years ago to free up a spot because we need spots despite the fact that that young key forward will almost certainly get snappped up by another club.

We cut Notte who we have invested a high draft pick and several years of development in and who may or may not have a future at AFL level because we don't have enough spots to keep him but we apparently have plenty of spots left when it comes to a decision on Hansen and we are happy to waste and write off a spot for him for next year so he doesn't get emotional and cry about getting cut.

We are the laughing stock of the AFL. We are so weak. Melbourne tap the captain of their club on the shoulder earlier this year despite the fact that he has been in their best 5 players for the last 3 years and is still in stellar form because they want to move forwards. We won't tap a bloke who has barely played in 3 years and is clearly not physically up to AFL footy anymore and has been surpassed by many other players on the list because he doesn't want to get tapped on the shoulder.

Worsfold won't make decisions on players and wants to waste our clubs resources and slow down our recovery/rebuild to avoid making hard decisions. And the board won't make a decision on Worsfold or his methods because they lack courage also and would rather waste our time and resources and slow down our rebuild by letting him see out a contract rather than make a call now. Weak, weak, weak. P*** weak all round.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

So you are saying GM was/is a Collingwood supporter?

The old GM is a troll routine is standard fare for muppets like Kranky Al. It's just a sign that they have no logic or intelligence behind their argument, and sometimes not even an argument, so they just mount personal attacks on the other posters. How tired and unoriginal. If you want to continue with personal attacks Kranky Al then at least find some original material to do it with.

These people are idiots. I will give you some life advice Ziad. If you find yourslef on the side of the boat with the people who have nothing more than the old negative/positive argument for being on that side of the boat or incoherent and unsupported personal attacks on the people on the other side boat to justify why they are on the side of the boat that they are on then you want to either be on the other side of the boat or not in the boat at all.

People who rely on positive/negative arguments or personal attacks on others are invariably idiots destined to get it badly wrong and you don't want to be in their company for long.

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

I will give you some life advice Ziad. If you find yourslef on the side of the boat with the people who have nothing more than the old negative/positive argument for being on that side of the boat or incoherent and unsupported personal attacks on the people on the other side boat to justify why they are on the side of the boat that they are on then you want to either be on the other side of the boat or not in the boat at all.