Autopsy This is going to be painful. The Dogs V Bombers debacle thread.

[Anja_Nees]

I would take four flags in eight years.

Sure, but the last of them was nine years ago under a different coach, in year one of the Bevo era.

They haven’t won a final since and are terrible now. It’s a long time since they’ve done much right.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

So Sanders has 5 tackles (out of 5 attempts) and 8 disposals @ 100%, in the half. Proceeds to get subbed for Dale.

Because he works so hard early in games, he was cooked when he came off the ground.

Its been pretty obvious since his debut that he's not yet in a position to run out games as a starting mid.

Its ridiculous that we're asking an 18 year old in his first handful of games to.

He's a gem, but he really needs a spell.

Dale comes on and gets 3 disposals in a half and is invisible. What a great use of your tactical sub!!!

He was cooked before he came on the ground. Im hard pressed thinking of a player who has fallen off as quickly as Dale.

He needs to have his game reinvented, but I can't see that happening under the current regimes dogmatic use of player positioning.

Bevo has the lost the ability to the get the most out of the players.

He's ashes in the oven.

Players are playing well below their levels and frankly look like they don’t give a *.

They look confused as ****. The structures that they are working under are a shambles and an unmitigated disaster.

There were periods of play where the forwards were pressing up so high that it looked like we were so desperate that we were reaching back to the 90's and playing version of Pagans Paddock. The problem was that the only player seemingly aware of this was Latham Vandermeer.

We were sold last year that the boys love Bevo. They haven’t been ******* playing like it for over two seasons now.

The fans are made to pay for the board accepting mediocrity.

The Footscray way.

 

[Woof]

English has and never will be a physical ruckman, but last night it was really noticeable how much he was looking to avoid any real contact. His first instinct during centre bounces was to stand at the drop of the ball and feel for contact with his non dominant hand and then try outreach his direct opponent with the other.

The one two nut punch of Old Goldstein and the mulleted ape were having non of that as they approached every centre bounce as if it was an exercise in fluid dynamics. It was incredibly deflating watching on from the comfort of my couch. I can't imagine how bad it was for the likes of the Bont and Libba who are reliant on English getting first hand on the ball to clear the centre where they could take advantage of our forward lines marking power. What happens next is anybodies guess. One thing is certain, Its not a great idea making a drinking game of our set shots.

I find it odd that a player who just had an AA season that papered over his ruck flaws with his around the ground dominance is approaching a career defining contract, playing the game so meekly. He's a shell of the player that he was then. That leads me to draw a few conclusions. He's either made his decision and is checked out and in preservation mode. That the concussion issues that he had over the pre-season were more than the club let on and he cannot get out of preservation mode. Or perhaps the unity and the love that the playing group proclaim it has for the coach is as real as that on an episode of Married at First Sight.

Either way, he needs to be sent down to Footscray as he is cruelling any chance of getting first use out of the centre. Which is ridiculous considering we have the Bont, Libba and Treloar starting in there. So much so that they were all but unsighted in the second half. Oh, great the balls back in the centre...again.

Rucking against English is the easiest job in the competition. His opponents know he has no fight; they run under the ball early, block his run and put the ball beyond his reach. On the rare occasion that English lucks in to primary position, he doesn’t know what to do with the tap because it happens so rarely and it is neutralised or we give it up. Watching live it is so dispiriting. How Libba tolerates softness like that is beyond me. At least he used to be useful behind the ball or being a threat up forward. His dropped marks under minimal pressure have put paid to that.

 

[Thunderoad]

It shouldn't have come to this. Our medical response after he collapsed was poor.

At a minimum, Libba should have been immediately taken from the field and had an assessment.

You don't just collapse and you don't collapse like that from a tweaked ankle.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Libba said this after the game

 

[Hobdog]

Spot on. I'm the same. Two young kids and comes a time when $700+ a year becomes too much for something you don't enjoy and I'm not enjoying it now and haven't for quite a while and that's really sad.

Yeah that’s a big investment for you. Being in Canberra I don’t attend games, so purely a donation and a sense of ownership. If we were exciting to watch you could accept some losses but apart from some individual efforts, we’re very hard to watch.

 

[hutchy31]

English KPF, Darcy ruck, Astro KPD. Wtf is so wrong about trying stuff like this for a couple games, bevo?!

I really hope it's not because it might work and he'd look a little silly that it wasn't done earlier, or that he caved in to media/fan pressure to try it. I hope it's because he has a firm belief that it wouldn't work.

He might be wrong, but if it's not being tried because of stubbornness that would be poor.

Fwiw I don't think it's stubbornness here, he likely doesn't see the potential gains being worth the risk. But it is a little unusual given how willing he has been to try other players in multiple positions over the journey.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Sure, but the last of them was nine years ago under a different coach, in year one of the Bevo era.

They haven’t won a final since and are terrible now. It’s a long time since they’ve done much right.

Absolutely, but it's a long time since we've done a lot right.

I would also be a lot more satisfied right now with having seen four flags in a decade than having one dream run and then wasting the best part of a decade as we have.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

Hi...Yeah Naughton did too! Took some amazing pack screamers and totally destroyed us on the night! Excitement machine plus!
I haven't seen or heard about that Naughton since...
Is he playing under Coaches orders to take some of the heat of Ugle so the young fellow develops his game?!?
Or has Naughton just lost some form?!?
Wish he'd come good again...game needs players like when Naughton destroyed us!

This might be pretty close to the mark.
Naughton no longer crashes the packs like he used probably due to a fear of accidentally taking JUH out.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Absolutely, but it's a long time since we've done a lot right.

I would also be a lot more satisfied right now with having seen four flags in a decade than having one dream run and then wasting the best part of a decade as we have.

If we’re going to compare ourselves to other clubs who are doing it better then I’d rather it be Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood who do it consistently and over a long time.

Hawthorn did great in the Clarkson era but I don’t see anything much about them I’d emulate from the last decade, same as I don’t see much I’d emulate from West Coast who won a flag more recently than us but are now worse than we were under Peter Rhode.

 

[GreatSouthWest]

The worst part of Bevos night was blaming Libba collapsing face first into the deck on a tweaked ankle

Let's hope our Docs are treating it a bit more seriously

Bev is literally a lunatic. Either say he didn't see it, or don't lie. Stevie Wonder could see it wasn't a trip.

 

[Fossie 32]

Add him to the list alongside Gawn, Goldstein, Jackson, Witts, even Bailey William from WC pushed him around, Pittonet, Stanley, Lycett, Darcy, Ryder etc

First one I noticed was Grundy

 

[_Cerberus_]

Bev is literally a lunatic. Either say or didn't see it, or don't lie. Stevie Wonder could see it wasn't a trip.

Lie? He and the Doctors can only go by what Libba tells them. He passed the concussion test, there was nothing obvious in the footage, what else could he really say? Mystery health condition? All he had was Libbas word. Whether its your local GP, Hospital, Sports Dr, they all can only go by their initial diagnosis by what the patient tells them, until they can do more vigorous testing. People trying to make a bigger issue of it.

As for the medical team, two minutes to go, well off the ball, he was up quickly. Likely no one saw the incident at the time, and Libba was already back on his feet by the time anyone got to him. Medics would have been tracking the play like anyone else. I'd have had an issue if it was in the middle of the quarter though, and he wasn't pulled off.

 

[CarnTheScray]

First one I noticed was Grundy

True forgot about him. He doesn’t beat anybody of note. Even Moyle put up a fight and he’s Gold Coasts reserves ruck.

He’s frustrated me for years. I’d rather just get him out of the picture. West Coast will offer him the money and the years, enough to get first round compensation.

 

[GreatSouthWest]

Lie? He and the Doctors can only go by what Libba tells them. He passed the concussion test, there was nothing obvious in the footage, what else could he really say? Mystery health condition? All he had was Libbas word. Whether its your local GP, Hospital, Sports Dr, they all can only go by their initial diagnosis by what the patient tells them, until they can do more vigorous testing. People trying to make a bigger issue of it.

As for the medical team, two minutes to go, well off the ball, he was up quickly. Likely no one saw the incident at the time, and Libba was already back on his feet by the time anyone got to him. Medics would have been tracking the play like anyone else. I'd have had an issue if it was in the middle of the quarter though, and he wasn't pulled off.

He collapsed. If he, and the medics, hadn't seen the footage, which would be everywhere, and was available within a minute, then they're inept. London to a brick, Beveridge is full of shit.

 

[hoianbulldog]

English still playing like a skinny first game ruck (but he can run) after nearly a decade in the system. I say we lowball him and if he wants to leave then let him go.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Bevo got outcoached by Brad Scott.

 

[BrisDog]

Darcy already looks much better that English in the centre bounces. In the boundary throw-in’s Darcy is muscled off the ball but still manages to reach in and get a hand on the ball. I would be happy with Lobb and Darcy to ruck the rest of the year and we try English somewhere else, possibly a utility who drops back like Scotty Wynd (without the same courage..).

 

[Anja_Nees]

Lie? He and the Doctors can only go by what Libba tells them. He passed the concussion test, there was nothing obvious in the footage, what else could he really say? Mystery health condition? All he had was Libbas word. Whether its your local GP, Hospital, Sports Dr, they all can only go by their initial diagnosis by what the patient tells them, until they can do more vigorous testing. People trying to make a bigger issue of it.

As for the medical team, two minutes to go, well off the ball, he was up quickly. Likely no one saw the incident at the time, and Libba was already back on his feet by the time anyone got to him. Medics would have been tracking the play like anyone else. I'd have had an issue if it was in the middle of the quarter though, and he wasn't pulled off.

There are a million things to tee off on about last night.

That people are seizing on the Libba thing, after he passed the concussion test and gave an interview, is bizarre.

 

[Thunderoad]

Lie? He and the Doctors can only go by what Libba tells them. He passed the concussion test, there was nothing obvious in the footage, what else could he really say? Mystery health condition? All he had was Libbas word. Whether its your local GP, Hospital, Sports Dr, they all can only go by their initial diagnosis by what the patient tells them, until they can do more vigorous testing. People trying to make a bigger issue of it.

As for the medical team, two minutes to go, well off the ball, he was up quickly. Likely no one saw the incident at the time, and Libba was already back on his feet by the time anyone got to him. Medics would have been tracking the play like anyone else. I'd have had an issue if it was in the middle of the quarter though, and he wasn't pulled off.

There's an underlying reason as to why Libba collapsed like that and you don't have to be medico to know that an ankle tweak is highly unlikely to be the reason.

It's responsible risk management to take him off and not let him resume playing until the cause has been determined.

It might be relatively benign or it could be something far more serious such as a previously unidentifed cardiac issue at other end of the spectrum.

Whatever the case, it's not up to Libba to diagnose what's wrong with him as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

I've got a bone to pick with you Doggy fans. I was relying on your prediction that it was going to be a walkover last night against the Dons.
I had already tipped Brisbane to win, got the correct margin and was looking at taking out this round and moving up from my current place of 345,972.
But no. It all went down the gurgler and the following day you are saying you want the coach sacked.
You've already won two games - that's basically more than the Eagles and Nth Melb - put together have won - in the last two years. And I'll bet there will be more wins for the Bulldogs and the only game Nth or WCE win is when they play each other.
Bevo was sweating last night because he was trying to come up with ways to turn the tide.
I think all Simmo is thinking about on match day is where to take the family on holidays.
You guys will be in the 8 at the end of the year, so don't desert the ship yet.
Playing well at the end of the year is what counts the most in this game.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Whatever the case, it's not up to Libba to diagnose what's wrong with him as you seem to be suggesting.

Absolutely never suggested that one bit. My comment clearly stated that INITIAL diagnosis in any medical situation is near always based on what info the patient passes on, UNTIL more intensive testing is done, where Doctors can dive deeper into the issue. He passed the concussion test, and Libba said ankle, that is all they had to go by AT THE TIME. If they felt they wanted to do more testing, how do any of us know the medics didn't call for more tests last night post game? We don't, none of us was there or part of any conversations. They probably already planned to more tests before the night was even done.

I had a painful hand at work. The on call work nurse determined it was likely a repetition sprain, based on info I told her. She sent me to a Doctor, and he said it sounds like a sprain from what you have told me, and based on what I can feel when touching and moving your hand. I even told them myself I think it is a muscle injury based on previous experiences. The managers told other managers I had a sprain. How were any of them to know it was broken? It was until I got my xray a few days later, that we knew.

They can't go by anything else until they conduct deeper medical testing at a hospital, which is what they are likely doing today. Hence you cannot claim definitely that there was an underlying issue. You don't know that.

Yes the collapse looked bad, yes it could be an underlying medical condition. But no issue with the Bevo saying what info they had at the time. All he did was quote what Libba told him, he didn't say it was 100% an ankle. People are acting like Bevo said it was 100% his ankle, when all he did was quote what Libba said, and what they knew at the time. Would be wrong for him to speculate there was anything else, without any knowledge of it. If Bevo said nothing at all, I bet people would be kicking up a bigger stink for keeping us in the dark.

 

[_Cerberus_]

There are a million things to tee off on about last night.

That people are seizing on the Libba thing, after he passed the concussion test and gave an interview, is bizarre.

Yeah people are just pissed off about the result and Bevo, so anything extra they can lump in, they will use it.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

I had a painful hand at work. The on call work nurse determined it was likely a repetition spain...

Commiserations on the hand injury, Cerberus, but I wouldn't mind that repetition Spain.

If only I could afford it!

 

[_Cerberus_]

Commiserations on the hand injury, Cerberus, but I wouldn't mind that repetition Spain.

If only I could afford it!

Haha! I seldom proof read my posts. Sometimes I read them two days later and pick up something I missed, be like "oops", and edit it then. I trust that red line underneath errors a little too much.