Recommitted Tim Kelly [requested a trade to West Coast]

[Virgin Dog]

Don't see why Eagles would have Kelly as their number 1 target. Can't cost much less than Coniglio, and would remove them from the top end of the draft, whereas Cogs would have no trade cost if they can convince him to come back to WA

 

[Scotland]

Don't see why Eagles would have Kelly as their number 1 target. Can't cost much less than Coniglio, and would remove them from the top end of the draft, whereas Cogs would have no trade cost if they can convince him to come back to WA

Agreed, but there's no guarantee Coniglio wants to move clubs or return to WA, and there's no guarantee GWS would let him walk for pick 15+ as compo. GWS would be well advised to push for a trade instead of a FA signing a la Dangerfield from Adelaide to Geelong. We could offer them multiple picks, points to assist with academy bidding etc.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Agreed, but there's no guarantee Coniglio wants to move clubs or return to WA, and there's no guarantee GWS would let him walk for pick 15+ as compo. GWS would be well advised to push for a trade instead of a FA signing a la Dangerfield from Adelaide to Geelong. We could offer them multiple picks, points to assist with academy bidding etc.

GWS have already come out and said they won't match if Cogs wants to leave (although they could obviously go back on that). Just feels like bringing in Cogs would be substantially better for the Eagles. Could mean they get an elite mid, along with drafting Robertson + Taylor/Jackson, instead of only bringing in Kelly. Obviously it comes down to Cogs wanting to return to WA, which doesn't necessarily appear to be the case

 

[Scotland]

GWS have said they won't stand in Coniglio's way, but they will do what is in their best interests as a club as I'd hope they would.

I agree Coniglio > Kelly but there's plenty to play out. If we could facilitate two trades or a trade and FA signing for both for 2020 the salary cap rules are so rubbery we could make it work over the next 5-7 years.

 

[Kwality]

Allen looks proficient in his highlights rather than dynamic..which say second tier to me. Mark kick goal. Sometimes guys like that can turn it into a career.. Dickson at the Dogs is basically a very good kick at goal and just a good average player at everything else. I see on your website that Allen is being tried in the middle ..as a 193 mid.. that to me is trying to find a role for him. Perhaps it works. It worked at Geelong for the likes of Ling.. Does he have that type of gut running and toughness?

Im sure WC would be willing to look at 21 year old player that has failed to break into a good side.. but OOC at years end ..he may not even be on your list next year.

Brander & Matt Allen are both going thru a similar education programs, fine to note their failure to break into the side, its not easy to break into a winning side, so far this year debutants have been Cameron small forward, backs Watson & Rotham and there is Tom Hickey. We clearly didnt see either as a mid capable of being NicNat/Scotty Lycett mid.
Of the 2018 debtants only Oscar Allen has cemented his place in the side along with Rioli & Ryan, whilst venables wont play again this year (concussion back in May).

Matt Allen is a South Australian, potential for more clubs to be involved.

 

[Kwality]

Don't see why Eagles would have Kelly as their number 1 target. Can't cost much less than Coniglio, and would remove them from the top end of the draft, whereas Cogs would have no trade cost if they can convince him to come back to WA

Who says Kelly is first, both are in play & its been known since before the last draft - its not as if one on one deals are the only strategy.

 

[DanWA]

Definitely agree that with Ross and Brad gone, Freo then become an option for Kelly

They can definitely offer Geelong more and him a bigger contract

 

[JackOutback]

You do know there is a thing called salary cap?

So the eagles over the last 12 months have extended - Gaffs,NN,Shepoards,Yeos,McGoverns & Darlings contracts all would be on big dollars now.
On top that you've younger players coming up for contract extensions who'll be commanding more coin.

And you're going to be able to fit T.Kelly in too at 800k +

NN would have taken a pay cut, not a rise. They can also stagger payments with front and back loading.

 

[Kwality]

Definitely agree that with Ross and Brad gone, Freo then become an option for Kelly

They can definitely offer Geelong more and him a bigger contract

Dont buy that on any count.

 

[DanWA]

Dont buy that on any count.

If he names us again i hope we can find some bank for him

Feel sorry for any player who ends up on Fremantle's list

 

[Kwality]

NN would have taken a pay cut, not a rise. They can also stagger payments with front and back loading.

Most of all good players mostly stay for unders, not lots, but unders to the biggest offers being made to leave. The Cats & Hawks have been experts in the field, professional management of the list.

 

[Obeanie1]

Don't see why Eagles would have Kelly as their number 1 target. Can't cost much less than Coniglio, and would remove them from the top end of the draft, whereas Cogs would have no trade cost if they can convince him to come back to WA

The Eagles don't get many guns wanting to return to WA. When one does finally nominate you why wouldnt they become the #1 priority.

After not having any gun players ask to come to the Eagles what is the chance two would want to in the same trade / fa period?

It would be a great problem to have really!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Agreed, but there's no guarantee Coniglio wants to move clubs or return to WA, and there's no guarantee GWS would let him walk for pick 15+ as compo. GWS would be well advised to push for a trade instead of a FA signing a la Dangerfield from Adelaide to Geelong. We could offer them multiple picks, points to assist with academy bidding etc.

Could also add Jarrod Brander in that list of things you can offer. I'm sure the Giants wouldn't mind reuniting with a highly rated former academy player. He may have more value to the Giants than to Geelong because of that. Also I think you have to use 2 first round picks in a four year period? Since the Eagles didn't have a first last year, I don't think they can trade both this year's and next year's first and still fulfil the rule, unless they trade in someone else's first.

 

[Obeanie1]

GWS have already come out and said they won't match if Cogs wants to leave (although they could obviously go back on that). Just feels like bringing in Cogs would be substantially better for the Eagles. Could mean they get an elite mid, along with drafting Robertson + Taylor/Jackson, instead of only bringing in Kelly. Obviously it comes down to Cogs wanting to return to WA, which doesn't necessarily appear to be the case

GWS said they would not stop Cogs leaving if he requests a trade.

Thats not saying they wouldnt match.

GWS will act in their best interest. Getting shafted with a rfa compo pick is not in their best interest.

 

[Virgin Dog]

The Eagles don't get many guns wanting to return to WA. When one does finally nominate you why wouldnt they become the #1 priority.

After not having any gun players ask to come to the Eagles what is the chance two would want to in the same trade / fa period?

It would be a great problem to have really!

It's a nice feeling when players actively want to come to the club, rather than having to seek them out. Means in the case of Kelly, you guys will probably get him for less than he's actually worth, at least from a contract perspective. Not sure how the trade works out though - if I were Geelong, I'd rather a straight swap for someone decent like Brander (or add on steak knives), than to receive something like 17 + 24 or whatever picks Eagles end up with. Not sure that's worth doing from the Eagles' side of things though. Talented talls are pretty hard to come by

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Not sure how the trade works out though - if I were Geelong, I'd rather a straight swap for someone decent like Brander (or add on steak knives), than to receive something like 17 + 24 or whatever picks Eagles end up with. Not sure that's worth doing from the Eagles' side of things though. Talented talls are pretty hard to come by

Maybe not for Kelly, but for Coniglio? I'd consider Brander and a pick or two for Coniglio to be a bargain. GWS need picks this year for academy matching.

 

[Scotland]

Could also add Jarrod Brander in that list of things you can offer. I'm sure the Giants wouldn't mind reuniting with a highly rated former academy player. He may have more value to the Giants than to Geelong because of that. Also I think you have to use 2 first round picks in a four year period? Since the Eagles didn't have a first last year, I don't think they can trade both this year's and next year's first and still fulfil the rule, unless they trade in someone else's first.

Could, but are unlikely to.

We used pick 13 in 2016 and 2017 so satisfy 2 in 4 years based on 2015-2018 and 2016-2019. Once we get to the point of not having used 2 first round picks in a 4 year period we will be unable to trade future first round picks.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Could, but are unlikely to.

We used pick 13 in 2016 and 2017 so satisfy 2 in 4 years based on 2015-2018 and 2016-2019. Once we get to the point of not having used 2 first round picks in a 4 year period we will be unable to trade future first round picks.

I'm talking about if you had to trade this year's and next year's pick for Cogs or Kelly. Then it'd be one pick between 2017-2020.

 

[Scotland]

I'm talking about if you had to trade this year's and next year's pick for Cogs or Kelly. Then it'd be one pick between 2017-2020.

Which is perfectly OK. You only have to satisfy the 2 in 4 rule at the time of trade.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Which is perfectly OK. You only have to satisfy the 2 in 4 rule at the time of trade.

Fair enough.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Could, but are unlikely to.

We used pick 13 in 2016 and 2017 so satisfy 2 in 4 years based on 2015-2018 and 2016-2019. Once we get to the point of not having used 2 first round picks in a 4 year period we will be unable to trade future first round picks.

It does get to a point where you start to damage your long term list health by skipping out on so many first round picks, which is something that I think Sydney are starting to suffer from. Eagles have an abundance of talented talls and small forwards, but their stocks of good, young midfielders is pretty bare.

Outside of Duggan and maybe Nelson in 2014 and Petrucelle in 2017 (if he even counts as a "midfielder"), I'm not really seeing a lot that jumps out at you. Obviously among those guys there's been a ton of incredible talls picked up, along with guys like Rioli and Ryan, but nothing in terms of midfielders since Dom Sheed in 2013. In particular, 2015 was a shocking year, with the out-of-form Tom Cole the only player of note.

I think the Eagles would be far better off keeping their first pick (15-18) and going for someone like Robertson who can be a long term, elite player. It's hard making these calls since the premiership window is well and truly open, and picking up Kelly could really up their chances of another premiership in 2020, but I wonder what happens down the line, especially around 2024, when Shuey and Redden are both gone, and Gaff and Yeo are on their last legs

 

[Suma Magic]

Hopefully whoever replaces Rawling has the same understanding of trade value.

I think the only thing that would upset west coast fans is paying more than Kelly is worth in a trade.

Personally, I can’t understand the school of thought that he is worh heaps more than what Geelong paid for Dangerfield when they traded for him.

 

[Obeanie1]

It does get to a point where you start to damage your long term list health by skipping out on so many first round picks, which is something that I think Sydney are starting to suffer from. Eagles have an abundance of talented talls and small forwards, but their stocks of good, young midfielders is pretty bare.

Outside of Duggan and maybe Nelson in 2014 and Petrucelle in 2017 (if he even counts as a "midfielder"), I'm not really seeing a lot that jumps out at you. Obviously among those guys there's been a ton of incredible talls picked up, along with guys like Rioli and Ryan, but nothing in terms of midfielders since Dom Sheed in 2013. In particular, 2015 was a shocking year, with the out-of-form Tom Cole the only player of note.

I think the Eagles would be far better off keeping their first pick (15-18) and going for someone like Robertson who can be a long term, elite player. It's hard making these calls since the premiership window is well and truly open, and picking up Kelly could really up their chances of another premiership in 2020, but I wonder what happens down the line, especially around 2024, when Shuey and Redden are both gone, and Gaff and Yeo are on their last legs

Eagles have a gap in their list of quality players esp mids in their mid 20s.

Trading in quality mids aged 25 is exactly what they need to focus on.

Then they can focus on drafting in the next batch over the next 3-4 years.

Also in two drafts 2017 & 2018 the Eagles used 9 top 40 picks. Pretty much 9 players in the first two rounds.

Other teams used 4.

 

[Scotland]

It does get to a point where you start to damage your long term list health by skipping out on so many first round picks, which is something that I think Sydney are starting to suffer from. Eagles have an abundance of talented talls and small forwards, but their stocks of good, young midfielders is pretty bare.

Outside of Duggan and maybe Nelson in 2014 and Petrucelle in 2017 (if he even counts as a "midfielder"), I'm not really seeing a lot that jumps out at you. Obviously among those guys there's been a ton of incredible talls picked up, along with guys like Rioli and Ryan, but nothing in terms of midfielders since Dom Sheed in 2013. In particular, 2015 was a shocking year, with the out-of-form Tom Cole the only player of note.

I think the Eagles would be far better off keeping their first pick (15-18) and going for someone like Robertson who can be a long term, elite player. It's hard making these calls since the premiership window is well and truly open, and picking up Kelly could really up their chances of another premiership in 2020, but I wonder what happens down the line, especially around 2024, when Shuey and Redden are both gone, and Gaff and Yeo are on their last legs

Agree RE: not selling the future for the present but when you are successful (even relatively so) you don't get good draft picks to start with.

Since drafting Sheed at 11 (traded down from 6) we've had 11 (Duggan), 21 (traded for Redden), 13 (Venables), 13 (Brander) and 23 (traded to Gold Coast) in the final draft orders. At best we could've picked up Sam Powell-Pepper or Tim Kelly at 23 years old instead of trying to trade for him at 24/25. For whatever reason the club has prioritised having picks in the 20s in recent years. On current ladder positions we will end up with a late teens pick, mid 20s pick and late 30s pick this year. I'm sure we'd love a crack at the top 5 or top 10 but the cost in getting to there is substantial. Port gave up Polec and Pittard to North who were happy to part with pick 11 knowing they would burn it on Tarryn Thomas anyway, then traded 11, 23, 30, 49 to get pick 6 and a future third, then traded 6 and the future third and 35 to Brisbane to get pick 5 and Sam Mayes knowing there were 3 SANFL guns likely to go from 2-5. If we are going to give up significant currency I'd rather get a known quantity with plenty of footy left.

If we take our picks to the draft this year I'll be happy with that but the reality is we're probably not going to find someone as good as Kelly or Coniglio with say picks 18, 25 and 38. We have a couple of mids playing in the WAFL that can't get a game in the AFL but none are particularly early picks. 2024 is an eternity away in footy terms. In 2013 we had 12 players who would go on to play in the 2018 GF win. Who saw that coming?

 

[Kwality]

Personally, I can’t understand the school of thought that he is worh heaps more than what Geelong paid for Dangerfield when they traded for him.

The chatter will always want to use this comparison, its easy ... IF Kelly wants to go a deal will be done & the Eagles are not a shoe-in.

What jumps out of the Eagles starting 22 is the number at their 2nd club, & guys like Ah Chee arent on that list.